I'm not sure if I need relationship or religious advice, but here goes...

How about marrying somebody who make you happy and not your parents?

Uh, you did read the rest of the thread, right? Specifically the post directly after the one you quoted.

I’m certain my parents just want me to be happy, and I understand their concerns. I know that a mixed-religion relationship can be miserable, or at least harder than one where both people share the same beliefs.

But it doesn’t have to be, as long as both people are supportive and respectful of the other’s beliefs.

Believe me, this is something I’ve thought about. A lot.

On one hand, as a fellow C’tian (who keeps falling for non- or not-quite C’tians), I can’t disagree with the Biblical consensus that believers should marry believers,

BUT

to address your concern, don’t get too bugged out over this- if you’re happy with him & with the church & he’s happy with you & actually likes your church, don’t get worked up about it. IF someone asks about his faith & you all don’t want to misrepresent him as a believer, just say he’s Seeking.

My parents have a relationship like the one you’re describing, Susan. While I was growing up the church we went to was a bit unusual for a Catholic parish. My Jewish, agnostic father was a part of the community, without ever actually having to be a member of the church.

If it really bothers you ask to speak to the pastor. He or she may have some advice or suggestions.

And I, too, think you’re very lucky with your caveman.

I have a question for you, and I hope this isn’t too off-point. I’m a Christian (in the wandering sense because I abandoned the Catholic church a while back, and haven’t roosted anywhere since), and my wife is agnostic. As with your SO, she has been fully supportive of any religious activities I’ve wanted to pursue, including going to church with me if I wish (I haven’t asked her to).

I’m wondering if you have any personal desire or feel any internal pressure to try to convert your SO. You don’t come across at all as being bothered by his Atheism, but was there ever a time when this was a concern for you?

Apologies to all if this is too far off the OP.

Yes, I did try to convince him at first- he’s always been very interested in my faith, why I believe, what I believe, etc, and I mistook that for a desire to be converted. Several things got in my way:

  1. While I grew up in the church, and I now believe in a personal and good God, I had a period of agnosticism which I worked through less than 2 years ago. I still don’t have all the “other stuff” sorted out in my mind yet. I have opinions about issues, but I don’t know enough to defend those opinions yet. I’m still figuring it out for myself.

  2. He can argue on the offensive- picking my religion to shreds. I automatically have to defend my faith. It is hard because he can argue about things that are conceptual and abstract to him, but to me, they are a part of who I am. Therefore an attack against my logic feels like a personal attack. He’s learned to be more diplomatic, and I’ve learned to have a thicker skin.

  3. He simply doesn’t feel the need for belief in God or some deeper meaning to life. I think that he would need a personal, physical theophany to believe, and even then he would feel resentful that it still doesn’t make logical sense (from his POV). Plus there’s the whole Kierkegaard thing about belief and knowledge being incompatible (you don’t need to believe in things you know are real).

  4. I had a personal experience with God first, then moved from there into belief. Obviously this worked for me, but it is hard to convey to others.

All this is to say that I’ve had to make a decision: if he never converts, will I be okay with that? Will I love him any less? Will it hurt my faith, or that of our children (if we have any)? Will I resent him for it?

He’s such a skeptic by nature: I think I’d rather have him stay a heathen forever than to go against who he is to try and force belief. I would especially hate myself if he did it for me.

So while I occasionally feel the urge to convert him, and I would love it if he could believe, if he does come to religion it won’t be due to me or my efforts.

Susan Sto Helit (love your name, by the way), my father’s an agnostic who was never baptized and has no intention of converting to Christianity, even though my grandmother was a northern English Baptist. He agreed to have all of his kids baptized, attended church with the family, and Mum even got him to sing in the choir on and off. Now, liberalish Episcopalians that we are, everyone was quite fond of Dad, and no one said a word about the tenor who didn’t take Communion with everyone else. Of course, Dad always has been a devout curmudgeon.

I don’t know much about Southern Baptists, so I don’t know how this congregation would take it, but I agree with the idea of talking to the pastor. It should give you a better idea of how you’ll both fit in, and I hope it proves a good fit for you.

As for the local Episcopal church, I’d say don’t worry about it. One of the main reasons I stopped going to the church I grew up in was I was one of only two single people between 25 and 40, and, despite what the congregation hoped, I had no interest in the other single person, a nice-enough male engineer. I chose my current church hoping to find single people my age who shared my interests. If nothing else, we can both be shallow together. :wink:

Good luck to both of you!
CJ

That’s a great story. It’s encouraging to hear about the ones that work.

I have an older friend (in her 50s) who directs the chior (for which she also composes religious songs) at her Presbyterian church, but is totally uninterested in religion otherwise. She usually doesn’t stay for the sermon, and seems to be a happy agnostic as far as I can tell.

Do you respect his atheism?
Does he respect your Christianity?
Does he follow the ethics of Christianity?

  1. Yes (I hope)
  2. Absolutely
  3. Yes, as far as I understand them (and most likely better than I do myself).

I also have been brought up along that line too, but I have read many books that debate whether when Paul meant by “unequally yoked”, whether it applies to marriage too. That said, if we apply the “not be unequally yoked” thinking too broadly, Christians can’t even have friends who are not of the faith.

Warning - theleogical musing follows which may strike some as irrational
When involved in an evangelism ministry, I was taught that it is God converts, not man. Evangelists are just channels which God work through. So when we are presenting the gospel, it is God who persuades while we are just the medium.

It is naturally to want the best thing for your SO, so hence the urge to convert. But many times people convert not because of what their closed one says, but because of the life their closed ones led. So there’s no need to slip tracts into his trouser’s pockets, okay? :slight_smile:

But he doesn’t seem to be doing that exactly either. It’s more like he’s Being. and that’s really rather pleasant.

Susan, he sounds so fine. Since nothing is “broken” yet, why not wait and see what happens, but have a Plan B in mind in case it does.

My 17 year old son, a hard-lined atheist, is a youth leader with our local Presbyterian church. The minister and his wife, along with many others in the congregation, know him well and know his beliefs. They accept him with open arms. He’s been on mission trips all over the states and to Guatamala this past summer. His faith, or lack of it is of no concern to them.

Most recently, he’s been asked to be a youth leader with their 6th grade youth group to help a particular boy with anger management issues. So, currently, he’s youth leader for their senior high program on Wed. nights, youth leader on Thurs. afternoons, has band practice with a contemporary christian band on Mondays AND usually attends Sunday services! I think he’s thoroughly indoctrinated. :slight_smile: (As an aside, this is not our family church, we don’t attend)

No harm, no foul for your suave caveman. He sounds like a keeper! As for your parents, let them keep him in their prayers. You never know what the future holds!

These questions, while important, are secondary to the Big One:

How does he get on with your MATERNAL GRANDFATHER? :stuck_out_tongue:

That’s me all over. I smile, visit with my friends, absorb positive vibes, get what I can out of the sermons (which are usually nothing I have any problem with, anyway), ignore the stuff I don’t agree with, and try not to screech too loudly when the pastor reads the New Revised Standard version of verse 4 of the 23rd Psalm, “Even though I walk through the darkest valley, I fear no evil,” when “Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil,” was perfectly understandable and infinitely more poetic. However, I dread the Bible study class with my wife since she has already told me to not, “say anything stupid,” and you know how hard THAT is for me.

Since he need not come out if he doesn’t want to it’s fine if he “lives a lie” and as he makes friends maybe he can open up to some of them. Truth be told, he’s probably not the only doubter in the congregation. Church would probably be mighty empty if the people who are mostly there for the company were to all stay home.

I’ll second FriarTed’s “seeker” suggestion. It works beautifully, especially since you don’t have to specify what it is you are seeking. They can think he’s seeking his path when he’s really seeking the dessert table.

I see no problem with him going to church with you. If I were him, I wouldn’t bring it up unless someone asks, though. I’m an agnostic, and I know how frustrating it is to be dragged to youth groups and to have people attempt to “convert” you. It’s all well-meaning, but frustrating.

He sounds like an incredibly sweet guy for agreeing to go to church with you. This seems like a good arrangement- you get to spend a bit more time together, plus he will be better able to understand your beliefs, even if he doesn’t share them. Also, I feel that everyone, agnostic, atheist, or whatever religion, should have at least a bit of knowledge about other religions. It just helps people understand society as a whole.

First off, that picture is adorable.

Second, I can relate to your situation from the opposite perspective. As a kid I was dragged to church under (often loud) protest. I didn’t believe in any of it and I objected being forced to participate in it. It felt wrong to repeat all that stuff (I stopped saying the Apostle’s Creed very early). But my parents made me go. This was in part because they figured I’d outgrow it and come to believe the way they did.

But mostly I think it was because the “belief” part of church was, for them, only a part of what church is about; they were more committed to the community and the fellowship and all that other stuff that went with it. In fact I continue to feel that their faith in God is secondary to their faith in the church communities that they belong to. I think a lot of regular church-goers vary in their strength of faith and I don’t think that should detract from the church-going experience at all.

I still don’t go to church because I have too much respect for their religion and their church to participate in rituals I don’t believe in and repeat lines that are (for me) complete lies.

But I firmly believe that people should get what they want to out of religion. Everyone makes their own religious experience.

They get along fine, provided I can keep them from playing chess :smiley:

And I’ve finally gotten Grandpa to start saying “Hello, Caveman” instead of “COWER, PUNY MORTAL!”