I don’t see it that way, it’s just realism. If I were single and a woman I was attracted to almost always had a crowd of men around her, I’d say she was probably out of my league.
I wouldn’t worry about that much if she was someone I had regular opportunities to interact with one-on-one or in a small-group situation, and she seemed to be well-disposed towards me. But if she knew me only to say hi to, I’d look elsewhere.
Leagues are real but don’t matter.
One of my buddies from my running around days was very successful with women he had a gorgeous woman lined up for every weekend so there was no reason for him to find out if the chubby girl had a personality he clicked with because there were so many models that also had personalities her clicked with. For him all that matters was that they were athletic. I find his wife very unattractive but damn is she in shape.
On the other hand I’ve got a friend who only cares about bra size. He goes home with a woman he’s happy with every night and prefers chubby girls since they are more likely to be endowed. While both of them constantly pull 10s and feel no reason to date down their definition of a 10 are totally different.
I was unsuccessful with women until I got into great shape. That was because the kind of women I was interested in we’re interested in a guy who sat around on the weekends playing video games. We were in different leagues. But as I got more attractive I was able to start discriminating more in the people I chose to go out with and started refusing to date ‘short’ women at least until I met my wife who was so amazing that I was willing to break my “you must be this tall to ride” rule.
If you like the ultra marathoner body type but weigh 500 pounds maybe you can find a health nut that is interested in you, and you should ask out the women you want to, but you should also work on changing leagues and getting into shape so you have a higher success rate.
Don’t worry, she learned the same lesson attempting to woo me 
But all of this is just proving the point. The guy who has a gorgeous woman lined up every night and has no reason to date a chubby girl. Guess what? He’s put himself in a different league. There are women who’d like to go out with him but can’t because he figures he can do better than them.
Beautifully said.
This seems to be a case of “rejecting the terminology” rather than “rejecting the concept.” The term “league” makes it come across as sexist or toxic to some people, as does the 1-10 numbering system, hence why they object to the term, but the phenomenon is very real. There are always exceptions here and there, of course, but by and large someone who is poor, unattractive and has poor personality is going to be hard-pressed to land an attractive, wealthy, great-personality person as a mate when that attractive person has plenty of better suitors available.
How is that bullshit? Jennifer Lawrence is a very successful, intelligent, and attractive woman. She probably had hundreds of men who would have been willing to go out with her when she was single. So she not only had the option of turning down a lot of interested men; she had the necessity of doing so for logistic reasons.
I’m being realistic when I rate myself and determine that I wouldn’t have been in the top tier of that group. And that only the top tier of men that would have wanted to date Jennifer Lawrence actually went out on a date with her. And only one man ends up getting engaged to her.
So it’s nonsense to say you can date anyone you want. Because not everyone you want is going to want you.
The problem is you’re projecting your own perspective & opinions onto someone entirely else. You don’t know what the ‘big league’ woman has gone through, or what she is going through, because you never even start to talk to her. The Missus was ‘out of my league’ when I first laid eyes on her. I had no idea she had never been in a happy relationship or what the rest of her baggage was, I just saw a younger, confident, attractive lady who seemed to have her shit together. She could be picky, and there was no way she’d go for a elderly troll like me. All I could do was think about stuff, be kind, and make her laugh. Good thing we worked together and I was forced to talk to her from time to time.
I’m not sure how it could be sexist, since it applies equally to men and women.
It’s because she doesn’t know you; and already has thousands of people trying to demand her attention.
She has no actual idea of whether she can “do better” than dating you. Because, as I said, she doesn’t know you. But she also hasn’t enough time to get to know everybody on the planet (and, of course, neither does anybody else.)
– how Lawrence herself makes her decisions who to date I have no idea. I don’t know her. But I doubt that you do either.
Why? She wouldn’t be an “authoress” if she’s written a book.
English has been ditching gendered terms for occupations for some time; and for good reason.
That much is true. What isn’t true is that there’s a set system of agreed upon “tiers” according to which everyone decides who they want.
Not everyone, as has been pointed out in this thread, is even physically attracted to the same sort of looks. Not everyone’s only interested in rich people, and some are repelled by too much interest in money. Some people are put off by brains, while others are strongly attracted to smart people (and you really can’t judge brains by either occupation or educational level.) Some people are attracted by emotional neediness, others are repelled. Judging by some of who manages to get married, not everyone even cares about kindness; but for others, a lack of that can overwhelm every other issue.
ETA: Plus which, of course, some people are already involved with somebody else, and some are either temporarily or permanently uninterested in becoming involved with anybody.
Attraction is a funny thing. I’ve known beautiful hot women that fell head over heels in lusty love with men that, IMHO, were completely unexceptional, not to mention short and/or fat and/or bald and/or completely nasty and obnoxious. This happens a lot. And I’ve fallen for guys that would’ve been way below “my league” on some sort of objective scale. But I fell hard for them.
And I once had sort of an LTR with a guy that felt I was “out of his league”. Which was ridiculous because he was tall and gorgeous and widely considered desirable. And he spent the entire two year relationship convinced I was going to ditch him for someone better. Until he “preemptively” dumped me.
No one should enter into a relationship with someone they aren’t attracted to on any level. It’s unfair to the other person. But you shouldn’t pick your partners based on how attractive they are to the world at large. Which is what you’re doing when you rate people on a scale.
You gotta make the effort, man, or else you’re just not in the game. Props on the attempt.
Does this mean I can’t downgrade? If I’m a 6, does this mean I’m not allowed to date 3’s? 4’s?
Can I date up? Like, for example, my date with Jennifer Aniston tomorrow night (sorry, Manson)… should I just call it off? I mean, she’s at least a 7!
It’s fair to say that people have different expectations of what they want, and that some are more focused on looks, while others on some element of personality or common interests. Or some may be more focused on breast size, while someone else is more focused on fitness. Or whatever. In that sense, you can’t know what someone else will consider about you if you don’t think yourself in their league.
However, there is also a reality that there are different levels of attractiveness. There is a need to be realistic about your own draw power, about what level of attractiveness you hold. Don’t set yourself up by only looking for supermodels when you’re a 300 lb guy who plays video games in mom’s basement. And don’t blame supermodels for not getting around to dating you.
This Board has no up-vote functionality; instead I must say “This”. When you are attracted to someone, then you are attracted to someone (and screw the polls).
When you are attracted enough, you will try… hoping to make a connection. If it fails, then now you know. And if it works, Hallmark wants to make your life story a movie.
All you can do is ask… even if J-Law has a fiance. Either she’ll tell you she has a fiance… or you should grab on with both hands for the adventure of a lifetime! The only time its an issue is if you are a great judge of beauty, but a poor judge of character, and the other person is a player who plays multiple hands of Black-Jack at once.
If that’s the case, letting the other guy have her really IS you winning the prize (even if you don’t know it yet).
Sure, it’s possible that I’m exactly the type of men that Jennifer Lawrence has always dreamed about. It’s also possible I’m going to win the MegaMillions lottery. But realistically, the odds against either of these theoretically possible events actually happening are astronomically remote.
Chasing after dream women is the equivalent of spending all your money buying lottery tickets. The likelihood is that you’ll not only fail to get your dream prize but that you’ll also miss your chance to get the more realistic thing you could have gotten if you hadn’t been chasing after that dream.
Ask the girl next door out on a date rather than try to get Jennifer Lawrence. Invest your money in some stocks rather than buying lottery tickets.
I think the better advice would be to shoot for the moon, but don’t be surprised if she says no.
If you already got to the dating phase, I say go for it. Sure, her friends might say “why are you with HIM?” but if your relationship is so weak that she listens to that garbage and you think she would, then she wasn’t for you anyway.
The relationship between Penny and Leonard from TBBT is highly irritating to me. They constantly go on with how he’s “out of her league” (he isn’t imo - she has some big flaws), but even if he is, he acts so pathetic and grovelling and insecure about it.
If you’re going to be like that, then yeah, you shouldn’t date women out of your league.
I thought she was out of HIS league and that’s why he acts insecure and pathetic about it?
You’re never going to date Jennifer Lawrence because you’re never going to *meet *Jennifer Lawrence. But there are women who are successful, intelligent, and attractive who are not Jennifer Lawrence, and you don’t really know what each and everyone of them views as desirable in a romantic partner. Saying that all of those women are “out of your league” because you’ve got this preconceived notion of what “beautiful” women want, plus a preconceived notion that you’re a “schlub” and therefore unworthy of their attention, is bullshit. You’re doing both yourself and them a disservice with that sort of thinking.
I didn’t say you should try to date Jennifer Lawrence. I said that the reasons that you shouldn’t have nothing to do with “tiers.”
I did do my best to point out, as others have in this thread, that not everyone has the same “dream prize”.
And women are not prizes, in any case.
Why should any woman take up with you, if you think she’s essentially inferior, and you’re only settling for her because you want to have a “prize” and don’t think you can get a better one?
I’m probably getting the phrasing wrong. What I mean to say is she is (supposedly) better than him.