In Memory of Daryl

The BBQ Pit
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I would just like to point out that we do believe that children are a gift from God, and we are very greatful that God has blessed us.
We would have treated the situation differently, if in fact Daryl’s parents did disown him.
[Hijack]
I am just curious as to what you think on this, jarbabyj, and any other Christian that wants to answer.

As a Christian, do you believe that God comes second in your life? I mean compared to children, husband, work, or anything like that.
They are all important things, and I never asked anyone what takes presidence in their life as a Christian.
What do you think about the following?

Do you think that putting God first makes God more prominant in one’s life, or do you think it makes a difference.

Do you think that putting God before any and everything would make Him more inclined to bless you when you walk in obedience?[/hijack]

Kalhoun, maybe you don’t think you are getting any answers because you are not getting the answer you want.
I don’t know how it works for the rest of the world, but in my relationship, the husband is the head of the wife. That is the way God intended it. We try to compromise when we are able. If there is something we cannot agree on, he makes the final decision. He is a smart, caring, and considerate man, regardless of what you may think. Our way has never failed us. No one is always right, but that is how we learn.

Guinastasia, little girl, you don’t know what the hell you are talking about, and until you get your facts straight, shut the fuck up. I am sick of hearing you rammble about shit that doesn’t even exist.

We were not “ragging” on a damn thing. Questions were asked and we answered. If you don’t like it, you know what you can do with yourself.
And just because you post how pathetic you feel so you can get sympathy, doesn’t mean that everyone else has to post about their life. You do what you have to do to feel good about yourself, but what makes me feel good is not getting pity for what may be lacking in my life.
Newsflash, little girl, we don’t owe you a friggin thing, especially an explaination about our life. The people who needed to know do, and that includes some on this board. I am sooooo sorry that you weren’t important enough.

Why don’t you get a grip and calm yourself down. Stop thinking that the world owes you something.
Depressed people aren’t whiners, you are.

See how fast I’m running. :rolleyes:

sorry all, JD

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jarbabyj,
I hate to keep hijacking the thread like this, but I still don’t feel like you answered my question. Forget the right or wrong thing, whta I want to know is what should the husband do if his wife flat out says “no?” What if the wife refuses to recognize his authority.

Let me give you a hypotheitical example:

Le3t’s say the wife is working at a job that she enjoys, but her husband, for whatever reason, wants her to quit. He pulls his “card” as you call it and demands that she submit to his authority and quit her job. The wife tells him to go fuck himself. Now what? What should the husband do if his wife refuses to obey him?

(This is the question I can never get an answer to)

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On the other hand, anger - visceral, “my children are burning” anger - can make you walk through fire to save them. Anger can make you leave a bad relationship. Anger can make you change the world.

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Absolutely. Putting the energy of it to better use.

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Joe and Jersey–what if your son or daughter were engaged in a heterosexual relationship in which they were fornicating outside marriage without any plans to get married in the foreseeable future? Would that SO be welcome in your home?

What if he or she got divorced and remarried? Would the new spouse be welcome?

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Hmmm, good point.

Although I would like to point out, that Daryl’s parents DID infact, disown him.

I hope no one else thinks I was looking for sympathy. I don’t want it. I merely wanted to illustrate what it’s like. That’s all.

But neither of them are worth a meltdown.

Oh, and Diogenes, lay off Jar. Some people are just more take charge than others. On some things, my mom has the final say, some things my dad does. Each couple is different.

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Right Guin it’s the same in my marriage

But (and I promise, I’m not picking on anyone just very curious), jar is clear that her husband always has the last say.
Even if she believes that he is wrong.

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I’m not attacking her, Guin, I really want to know the answer to my question. It is off-topic, though. Maybe I’ll start another thread.

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A bunch of sidelights here:

I was going on the data I had, from “a usually reliable source.” I was grieved at the tragedy, and inclined to posit, from that data, that the actions of the parents had some impact on what happened. Anyone who thinks I opened this thread to attack the parents is privileged to have that opinion, but I’m emphatically denying it, here and now.

I’m much more interested in finding a solution to the problem than in casting blame at anyone.

Second, can I ask that we get off the “us vs. them” mentality? I found Joe and Jersey’s comments callous in the extreme – but based in the misconception that I was Pitting the parents. I’m Pitting the state of affairs that results in gay young people killing themselves, in alarmingly high numbers. (Anyone got an accurate cite for how many actually do? – I know that 30% contemplate it seriously, from a legitimate survey that’s been misreported as the number who follow through on the idea.) I’m upset at any (hypothetical) parent who would go so far as to disown a child because of his/her sexuality – as the parents in the extant case reportedly did.

Third, Joe, may I respectfully ask where you got this information?

I went looking for links or references to “Reno,” “Nevada,” and “Wednesday” on this board and found only this thread and stuff totally unrelated in MPSIMS and IMHO. As I understand this, Daryl was a Dartmouth student whom Andygirl knew – I misunderstood and misreported the nature of her connection to him, and fully admit my error there.

How did we get him from Dartmouth (or his home) on Saturday to Reno on Wednesday, and designing a universal math/science language? Is this the same Daryl, or did two different people suicide? In view of your stance on multi-party relays of data, you’ll surely excuse my asking, Cite?

Finally, w/r/t Christian marriage, and as amplification on what jarbaby’s been saying, may I offer this discussion for further clarification of what the concept actually means in theory and practice?

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As a cold-hearted unfeeling son of a bitch who knows when to shut the hell up, I am insulted by your association of Joe_Cool to me.

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Polycarp, I’m sorry for any part I had in disturbing your thread. I mean that.

It’s just so agonizing to see so many people dying over something so stupid-when you get down to it, that is. Loving someone of your same gender should NOT be a cause for such hatred. And it seems as if so many of my friends are experienceing this.

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DoctorJ, if I was aware of fornication outside of marrige, I would disapprove of it, and no, he/she would not be allowed in my house. The problem with this is that it is not likely that a child would tell his or her mother and father, "I am having sex with so and so, you know what I mean?!

I would tell them that sex outside of marriage is wrong and not acceptable in God’s eyes. What they choose to do with that behind my back is between them and God.

I, personally, do not believe divorce is an option. I would advise them of that before they actually tie the not, and hopefully they would have had counseling with a pastor before their decision.

Like His4ever’s situation, she realized her mistakes after she remarried, IIRC. If this was the situation, yes they would be welcomed in my house.

The thing is, you cannot keep knowingly sin and think everything is ok. You need to see your error and stop. Once you remarry, it is done. Divorcing the second husband wouldn’t be the answer, that is just a continuation of the sin.

If my child decided to get remarried and didn’t give a hoot about God, I would allow both of them into my house. They would get treated with love, but they would also hear what I have to say about the Bible and God, and what God wants for them and what God expects of them.
I posted before about a married couple who stayed together because the wife stayed faithful and loyal throughout all the bad. After so many years of her love of Christ and it shining through, he turned into a good husband and Christian.
I expect that this could happen to my hypothetical son in law times 2 and daughter.

If my daugher was homosexual, I would still love her and accept her into my house. She would always have a place to live and food to eat. Like she does now, she would constantly her “I love you”, along with “Jesus love you”. She would aslo know what the Bible has to say.
If I was given the opportunity, I would talk to her SO, tell her why this is unacceptable, and tell her it is our wish that she did not return to our home.
One of two things would happen:

  1. she would not return home and live her life the way she wants
  2. she would keep her personal life to herself and still visit (and we would pray that God shows her the way through us)
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No kidding. I agree completely. However, I don’t recall saying that good parents would do what andygirl claims Daryl’s parents did. Did I perhaps post that and not remember it? Feel free to point me to it, if so. In fact, if I’m not mistaken, I believe I said that was very poor parenting. But even so, nobody forced him to commit suicide. He did it to himself. If your kid runs out and kills himself because you made him sad, it’s not the same thing as beating or starving him to death.

But I thank you for at least using the word I bolded in your quote.

Guinastasia, you evidently have a problem with my saying God is more important to me than my child? Jesus had no such problem:

So once again, argue it with God, not with me.

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Sarcasm doesn’t become you, Joe.

It hardly matters whether he was within epsilon of making cold fusion a reality, or whether he was some shmoe barely getting by in life. You know God would have died for any one of us, had we been the only sinner in the world. That is all that matters here.

I guess it depends on what a ‘chance’ is. If I had a son who grew up to be an axe-murderer, I would be horrified out of my skin. But he would still be my son, and I can’t imagine that my love for him would be undone by the worst nightmare come true.

In the end, it’s all about love versus hardness of heart. And sometimes, that’s all the chance you get - to show which you have. These parents - real or hypothetical or whatever - had the choice of being the rules, or being people: of saying, “If you are going to be one of them, then you are not one of us,” or reaching out to him in love as best as they could through their own pain and hurt and confusion.

The chance we have in the Lord is to open ourselves to Him, and become who we need to be, before life throws us curveballs like that, so that when the test comes, it will find us with at least some shred of compassion or mercy to share.

I don’t see what’s fishy about that. I would expect that there’s a pretty strong network of gay support groups.

I can’t see why: my personal experience with moments of great anguish is that, for quite some time, I’m able to replay them through, moment by agonizing moment.

Notoriously bad sources, of course.

Blatantly biased, right?

I’ve got another story, if Weirddave doesn’t mind my taking his idea and running with it. Young man, leader of an alternative religious movement, is tortured to death. Friends/followers scatter, thinking they may be next; later they get together and share their grief. They claim to encounter their friend in various ways, and use the tale to perpetuate the movement that he started.

Clearly, the friends and followers must be unreliable witnesses due to their emotions, not to mention their biases. And you know what I’m talking about, and there isn’t a nickel’s worth of difference.

What’s long and tenuous about it? Young man has very significant converation with parents, and reports details to a friend. After young man’s suicide, friend puts details in an email.

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Polycar, thanks for the link but I still didn’t find an answer to my question in that thread.

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Am I reading this correctly? As long as your child didn’t tell you , it’d be ok?? How far would the deception have to go? simply not speaking the words? hiding same addresses etc?

so, she and female SO wander in and as long as they didn’t proclaim “we love each other and in the biblical sense”, there’d be no controversy? she and male SO wandering in and her belly grows by leaps and bounds until next visit she brings along ‘her friends baby’, and this would be ok??

I understand the concept, by the way, of ‘being forced to deal with’ things you’d rather not deal with. It’s just that my stance has generally been, I’d rather deal with whatever truth there was then not; and my definition of a good relationship doesn’t include an automatic “and don’t tell me this list of things 'cause I won’t want to hear them”.

and honestly, how does this reconcile w/ admonisment to tell the truth?

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I can’t imagine treating your own child as an outcast.

I have a 2-year-old son, and I will never treat him in such a manner. As long as he is healthy and happy, I’m happy for him. Who he sleeps with will have absolutely no effect on my feelings for him.

I can’t believe some people make such a big deal about sexual preference.

The kid died because people were upset about where he chose put his penis.:frowning:

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The Bible also tells slaves to obey their masters, do you agree with that sentiment?

BTW, tteh old “argue with God” tactic is about as cheap and specious as it gets. The Bible says whatever you want it to say.

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Funny- I did argue it with God, and He told me it was unfortunate that some people put more faith in rules than in love.

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Fine. My complaint is your making the assumption that this particular suicide is a specific case of the phenomenon you are ranting against, and in doing so, clearly assigning guilt for the son’s death to the parents:

Talk about callous. That’s certainly my brand of not casting blame. :rolleyes:

Are you implying that I am not a reliable source? I need to back up my information with cites, but andygirl does not? Interesting. I think I’ll respectfully decline your request at this time. Do your own legwork.