It’s not about thinking that the least likely option must be the right one, it’s about being aware that the least likely option might be the right one. In other words, 1) don’t assume that you know anything about the beliefs or capabilities of someone you’ve just met, and 2) if you can’t do #1, at least give people the benefit of the doubt until you see evidence one way or another regarding whatever assumption you’d like to hoist on them.
It may not seem “logical” or “intelligent” to you, but IMO it’s respectful and open-minded.
Hmmm…Maybe I wasn’t clear. I didn’t say those two situation were exactly the same.
Nah, I don’t think that’s what it’s saying. It says pretending to be “friends”. Friends is in quote marks - the meaning being he’s pretending to only be friends, when he desires to be not only friends, but more than friends. I don’t think it’s talking about a guy who has no interest in being friends at all, but just pretends to be friends to get her in the sack. That would be your Category B - asshole guy. The article is about “nice guys” who are unassertive, not manipulative assholes. I think you’re totally misreading it.
From what I’ve seen though, matt, there are just so damned many occasions where men and women misunderstand each other because they both expect the other to communicate in the each other’s language.
That happens to be because most of the people I know are straight people. The women going off to their women friends and complaining that the man just doesn’t communicate how he feels, or pick up on her feelings correctly. The men going off to their men friends and complaining that the woman just doesn’t say anything straight out or answer a direct question.
I found this to be illustrated by the luggage vs. engagement ring story. Although, I have to say that it does sound kind of shitty to be miffed because although someone did think of you and get you a present, it wasn’t the specific present that you wanted.
Perhaps the real problem is that everybody on earth automatically seems to assume that everyone else on earth will modify their communication styles appropriately for the individual. It’d be folly for me to expect everyone to communicate to me in catsix-ese.
I hate to double post, but I clicked “Submit Reply” too soon…
{shrug} To each their own.
Amen, bro. If I had a nickle for every time I heard some dumbass say “You know, sometimes I really wish I were gay, because it would be so much easier to deal with other men/women”. . . :rolleyes:
I know this wasn’t addressed to me, but I gotta say that I think the trouble comes when people believe that men and women speak different languages. You may have only observed the stereotypes, but there are women who think/talk more like the books say men do, and vice versa. The misunderstandings happen when people with different communication styles get together; it has little to do with whether it’s two males, two females, or one of each (or more than one of each, for the polyamorous among us ).
You should visit soon before our women get even fatter (american fastfood is wreaking havoc on our once World’s Most Beautiful Women…) but mostly because it’s a sweet place to be: close, safe, stunning landscapes etc. etc. and it is surprisingly easy to fly to. Amazing Race did the island no justice. Now, where was I…
Scandinavia consists of Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Sweden and Finland. No jokes or anything - just pointing it out. norwegian joke erased
Hey, that’s just mean! But seriously… my bad, I guess; all work and no sleep make UselessGit lose temper, mind and ability to read (previous message posted at 06:00 or thereabouts GMT… I think).
Some shy guys that do that, or show up with flowers on the first date, probably think that they are overcoming their shyness by making a bold statement (which may not actually be that bold after all). Still, fretting over this kind of thing can bind a guy up into a state of paralyzing shyness, thinking that no matter what they do it’ll be inappropriate, creepy, and desperate.
From my own experience, the best thing to do was to just stop obsessing over being lonely. I began to enjoy life, going out alone if I felt like it, and it wasn’t long before my luck started to change and I didn’t have to go out alone anymore. The one thing, IMO, a lonely man or woman should NOT do is go on about how awful it is being lonely to anyone but a counselling professional, not even a friend. Because your friends don’t want to hear about it either.
I think I’ve observed it because I communicate far better with men tan women. A generalization isn’t false if it’s not 100% accurate. It’s not supposed to be exactly that way for every single person on the planet. It’s a general trend.
It just seems to me to happen far more often between the sexes than it does within one sex.
Okay, how about this-the female equivalent of the “Nice Guy” would be the girl who always wants the exact opposite of what she says.
You know the type. The one who keeps asking, “Does this dress make me look fat? Be honest!” And it doesn’t matter what you say-it’ll always be the wrong answer. If you say no, you’re lying. But you can’t say yes, because that’s cruel and hateful.
Or when she’s obviously upset about something, and you ask what’s wrong, and she says nothing. She says, “No, I don’t want to talk about it,” even though she really does, but she wants YOU to keep at it, and she wants YOU to be able to read her mind. She wants you to do certain things…but she won’t TELL you what she wants, because if she does, “it doesn’t mean anything!”
Now, most men HATE this, right? It’s the same with women and “Nice Guys”. It seems we should hook up all the “Nice Guys” and “Opposite Gals” and then the rest of us can go and screw our brains out in peace.
Roland, I wasn’t aiming my “gee, no wonder you’re single!” comment at you. I was again aiming it at the people who are saying, “But these guys are NICE, it’s YOUR FAULT! YOU WOMEN ARE STOOPID AND ONLY LIKE GUYS WHO ARE ASSHOLES!!!”
I keep meaning to get myself a button that says “Deborah Tannen thinks I’m a man.”
The failure state of “men and women speak different languages” is magnified when the presumption of what the communication style has to be trumps the actual geniune human being. It’s my experience that this happens a lot. (And it’s a good way to piss off and insult the actual human beings involved.)
OK, I need to backpedal on that a little bit; I was being overly sweeping and harsh. Of course you can spill your woes to your friends. We all do it sometimes, and sometimes it’s OK. But not every time we see them. I was thinking of a friend of my wife’s when I posted that. It never fails, after we’ve all been together for a short while, she will bring up the sad fact of her singleness.
The difference however IS, that the girl dating the alleged asshole isn’t looking at the guys around her and saying "gee, that guy just looked at me, he must be a nice guy secretly mad because I’m here with what appears to be an asshole instead of dating the nice guy because he “deserves” me more.
See the difference? She’s just going about her life, whether others think she’s doing the right thing or not. The self-proclaimed nice guy on the other hand, is observing her, deciding upon that chance viewing that her man is an asshole, and that HE, the nice guy deserves her more, and why do girls always date asholes and so on.
And let’s say that said girl IS with the worst man on the face of the planet. So? The default isn’t dating the man who “deserves” to “have” her the most. Again, we’re not possessions, we’re human beings. And whom we choose for our lovers isn’t done in order to say “see?? you’re just a nerd who doesn’t deserve me” to the Nice Guys of the world, it’s done entirely within her own world and has NOTHING to do with anyone but her and the guy.
).