Is it wrong for 15-year olds to be sexually active?

In My Humble Opinion
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I think the emotional risks of sex are the same at 15 and 50. Age really has little to do with it. Experience and emotional stability/maturity, does. Some 18-year olds may be more emotionally stable/mature than some 15-year-olds, but all older people are not better equipped to manage sexual relationships in a healthy manner than all younger people. Plenty of people are never very emotionally stable or mature, and struggle with sex and relationships their whole lives. I’d put a majority of people 25+ I know, into this category. Apprently they learned little from high school because they still act like stereotypical 15-year-olds when it comes to who they are dating. Lots of drama ensues.

Experience in handling relationships/sex does make a big difference, IME. So prohibiting kids from beginning to get this experience when they have the desire and feel ready works against the ultimate goal. Again I think it would be weird for the OP to enable his daughter in this particular situation, and I think ‘I feel uncomfortable giving you two permission to do it while I’m upstairs’ is the only explanation his daughter needs.

I don’t feel my decision-making or emotional maturity has changed much since my teens, though. I’ve always been very cautious, and I didn’t have much adult supervision of my free time starting at age 4-5. I had my own social life during my childhood and teens that my parents often knew little about, and I managed it to my satisfaction and have very few regrets. So I’m sure that influences my opinion here hugely. Other people feel they were different people as teens, with no understanding of the consequences of their actions, who took insane risks and needed close control from their parents. YMMV

Also, everyone lies about sex - to their parents.

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I’d be interested to hear what the norm is in countries like the Netherlands with respect to when children become sexually active, when and how parents start introducing information on sex and relationships into their children’s lives, and is and when they permit their children to have sex at home.

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And I appreciate those responses, very much. The question I asked is the one I intended to ask–I am not looking for responses to affirm anything I’ve already done or support any particular course of action moving forward. I have dismissed anyone’s opinion on that question, regardless of its substance, I assure you it was not intentional. (That said, I don’t recall having done that.)

I haven’t disagreed with anyone who has said sex at 15 is okay. I don’t know if it is or not. It’s all up for consideration moving forward. I’m interested in that perspective just as much as one that says sex at 15 isn’t okay. What’s not up for discussion, though, are the past events. They’re done, we’ve dealt with them as a family and are now moving forward. This thread has gotten bogged down in rehashing those past events and I share the blame for that. Now, though, I’m trying to move the discussion back to the original question.

At the risk of further entrenching the past-event tangent, I have to say the decision wasn’t a binary one. There were other options that would have allowed her to see her girlfriend. I’ve discussed them earlier in the thread. But this thread isn’t about the broken promise. As I said, we’ve dealt with that issue as a family and have moved on. I simply provided that information in the OP for context.

I have asked what I really mean. Repeatedly. Despite what some people clearly think, I have no agenda in this discussion other than learning about some of the non-physical risks (or absence thereof) related to sex around the age of 15. My daughter wants to know what they are and I had a hard time explaining them to her, so I came here for help. That’s it. Really. I don’t know how to make that more clear.

I’m not trying to find support for a pre-determined position, nor am I dismissing any responses that relate the to question at hand. If I have failed to properly respond to or acknowledge anyone’s thoughts on the subject, I hope they will let me know.

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The difficult part here, though, is that I can say to an adult that sex (at any age) carries certain emotional risks and most of them will agree. My daughter, for whatever reason, has a difficult time understanding the basic concept of emotional risk as it pertains to sex. So, I agree the age factor isn’t really driving the discussion. It’s just that, at her age, she apparently doesn’t have the requisite context to understand what my wife and mean by “emotional risks.” So we’re trying to explain them to her.

One of the more helpful pieces of advice mentioned upthread was that sex forms a strong emotional bond between two people who, at 15 and 17, probably won’t be together for a particularly long time. In this case, my daughter is close to the point where she is going to have to make a major life decisions about college, and in making those decisions, we want to make sure she has independent reasons for choosing a college, not just because “that’s where my girlfriend goes.” That’s a legitimate factor in the decision, but it shouldn’t be the only factor. That’s the kind of stuff we’re trying to explain to her.

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Up above, in response to Acid Lamp, I meant to say “If I have dismissed anyone’s opinion on that question, regardless of its substance, I assure you it was not intentional.”

That’s probably obvious, but I wanted to make sure.

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No, it isn’t wrong at all. Not even a little. I think it’s particularly not-wrong in the case of two girls, for exactly the reasons you mention: no physical risks involved.

I think we make much too big a deal about sex (over and above the physical risks issue, which is important) and that our discomfort with it is what leads to many more problems and issues than it solves.

Furthermore, you can’t stop it. You won’t, I absolutely guarantee you. The best you can hope for is to create the illusion of stopping it by coming up with some harsh-enough consequences that your daughter will get really good at hiding her activities.

It would be great if all people would wait until they are 25 before they start stirring up the intense emotions and messy consequences of sex, but they don’t, they won’t, and they never have. Better to deal with the reality in a straightforward manner: accept that she’s sexually active without condemnation and thereby keep the channels of communication open so that when she (almost inevitably) gets all messed up around a sexual relationship that goes bad, she can still turn to you for advice and counsel. And when she does, please please don’t say “I told you so”.

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I’m Not Dennis Bergkamp, remember that your behavior in this situation is also part of your daughter’s experience of it. If you make sex seem like something dangerous without being able to explain why, and without really having a rational reason for thinking so (at least not one that you’re able to express to your daughter), that attitude may well rub off. The emotional risks here have a lot to do with her perception of the situation, and if something that, at best, could be no big deal is being treated like this huge problem, the results could be… phobic. Now, some phobias aren’t all bad - a fear of snakes is probably beneficial for survival - and not all fears are irrational anyway. Just think twice before you make your kid more conflicted than she has to be. Life is too short, and being young is hard enough as it is.

What I meant by the comparison to the four year old who is drawing on the wall is: Sure, you can choose the path of conflict, but she she is going to do what she is going to do anyway. You have the option to just help her make sure it happens in a way that’s as safe and painless as possible. She won’t be 15 for very long anyway, and sexual awakening is a short, sharp shock. You can make it easier for her, or harder. Up to you.

There are plenty of chances in life for picking fights with your kids, if’s that’s you want to do (although personally I would tend to avoid picking any unless I had to). Are you sure you want this to be one?

It’s funny to find myself saying this, as I’m actually sort of on your side here. Again, if it was a boy she wanted in her room, I think the obvious answer would have been “no”, and “don’t be silly”. Any conflictedness and phobias would be worth it, easily. But with two girls, it is different.

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Almost. I didn’t. My parents were almost the first people I told when I lost my virginity. My dad was just bummed that it was with a kid my own age who was also a virgin, making it a less-than-stellar introduction.

My mom was concerned about birth control, of course, more so than me since I did get pregnant two years later. And both my parents accompanied me to the abortion. (My first and last, one was all I needed to finally get my attention and convince me that birth control was non-negotiable.)

My parents never told me I couldn’t have sex. When I asked when I could have sex, the answer was always the same: when you are emotionally ready to handle the consequences, because it’s a big deal. Interestingly, while the majority of my peers became sexually active between 14 and 15, I wasn’t comfortable going that far until I was 16.

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IANDB, I have a question for you.

When you were a younger person, did you ever have a friend or schoolmate have a close relative die, before any of your own relatives or family did? Someone in your class, or a good friend perhaps had a parent, or a sibling, or a really close grandparent or aunt/uncle pass away and it was the first time anyone you knew had that happen? They were really sad, right? And you *totally understood *that they were sad, and you felt sorry for them.

And then someone in YOUR family died. Maybe not long after, maybe years later, maybe not even until recently if you’re really lucky with your family or genetics. But perhaps, you may have thought about that schoolmate and realized “I did feel sorry for them, but I didn’t really understand.”

THIS is another of those times. I think that a lot of us are trying to convey to you that there is no a priori way to impart emotional knowledge of relationships to someone who hasn’t had them.

Explain to a blind person just how beautiful you find the color red, and I’m sure if they’re intelligent and creative, they’ll find something to relate it to - the taste of a grapefruit perhaps, or the smell of trees in the fall. But until they get that newly developed photoarray implanted in their eyes, they won’t understand RED for real. They can’t. They’re not wired for it.

Your daughter doesn’t have the wiring yet.

Sadly, what gives us this mental wiring is … you guessed it… experience. Which means, regardless of the experience, the first time we do anything - we aren’t ready for it. We can’t be. We can’t understand what it means to be ready for it in any full and totally-realized way.

You can explain the risks, she can even pay attention, but it isn’t real until the first time she spends the night sobbing her heart out because she got dumped, or the first time she realizes that someone else besides her family loves HER for no special reason, and STILL loves her, even when she’s sick with the flu.

These things are emotional truths, and she won’t be able to get them until she experiences them.

There isn’t anything you can do to change that. I know you want to protect your daughter, and I know you love her, but you can’t teach people everything - some things HAVE to be experienced to be understood.

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Stoid, I agree that I can’t stop it and, honestly, at this point, that’s not my intention. The agenda now is just educating my daughter on the risks. And in the event that anything goes bad, we’d never say “I told you so,” so no worries there.

Martian Bigfoot, those are excellent points. We’ve been careful not to stigmatize sex as evil or wrong and my daughter seems to understand that, thankfully.

Lasciel, that is probably the best explanation I’ve heard of the disconnect between my wife, my daughter, and I when we discuss the emotional risks. I suppose I should be happy that my daughter doesn’t currently have the reference points she needs to process them. Your comments are very much appreciated and I will give them a great deal of consideration. Thanks.

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INDB, here’s a question that hasn’t been asked, but is relevant to the situation:

To your knowlege, how much experience in relationships has your daughter had? Is this the first person she’s ever dated? I’m including the little relationships that kids get in in late elementary school/Junior High - where they “go together” for a few weeks or months, as well as deep crushes, dates that didn’t turn into anything, and long- or short- term relationships in high school.

The more of these smooching-and-hand-holding relaitionships she’s been in, the more prepared she probably is for the stronger emotions that come along with a sexual relationship. If she’s never been in any kind of romantic relationship with anyone before, though, they’ll hit her REALLY hard, and in that case I would definitely be more in agreement with her probably needing to wait before she’s ready to fool around.

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This is her second relationship, and the first one with a girl. About a year or so ago, she had a boyfriend for about a month or six weeks. That’s it so far, though.

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I think there should be a few criteria:

  1. The individuals should be physically mature.
  2. They should be equipped with comprehensive knowledge and supplies.
  3. There should be no coersion or massively unequal power relationships. (Autocorrect kept trying to change “coersion” to “foreskin.”)
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There might be a few more criteria that aren’t occurring to me at the moment, but other than those, people should start having sex at whatever age they start wanting to have sex. There should be no taboo based on being a teenager. More importantly there should be no effort to prevent safe sexual activity. That, in my opinion, fosters more rebellion as well as lifelong unhealthy complexes about sex. Along with that, I believe parents should be relatively open about their own sexual urges. Children should be made accustomed at a young age that adults and specifically their parents are sexual beings. In fact I believe that the very first knowledge of sex should originate in parents’ sexuality with each other. (By that I don’t mean that they should necessarily watch, but I see no harm in catching your parents at it and I believe that it’s probably one of the more healthy ways to learn about sex the first time.)

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Couple things come to mind…

  1. You seem surprised that your daughter is interested in exploring her sexuality. By coming out as a lesbian, wasn’t she telling you just that? Lesbian = sexually attracted to girls, right?

  2. The only way I could have matured emotionally was through experience. I don’t think that my parents could have told me that I wasn’t mature at 15. Did you think your parents understood you when you were 15? Although in retrospect, they really understood more than I gave them credit for but when I was that age, they didn’t know much.

  3. The age gap kind of creeps me out. There’s not much a 17 year old has in common with a 15 year old other than being in a position of power over a 15 year old.

  4. I suggest you focus on her disrespect of your agreed-upon rules and the sex issues will develop over time. Explain to her that she had opportunity to discuss the rules before hand and chose to sneak behind your back which shows her lack of emotional maturity. Continue to have an open dialog and look for those opportunities to talk with her in an open environment.

  5. This is why young people have children. Just reading this thread has exhausted me. Good luck.

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I’m not Dennis Bergkamp, you genuinely sound like an amazing parent, and I think you must have a really great relationship with your daughter. It sounds like you know her pretty well, and she seems to trust you. She also sounds like a very responsible and intelligent teenager, congratulations!

Here are some of my thoughts on reading your story & the other responses, in no particular order:

  1. Her obedience to your laws is in no way a sign of maturity. If your law would have been unreasonable, we would applaud her for breaking it. I am not following my parents rules now, that doesn’t make me immature but on the contrary makes me an adult (though I value their advice hugely!). Beginning to critically evaluate the rules of your parents, break them, and experiment with them is age-appropriate. That doesn’t mean she was right at all. She still needs to be consequenced (as you have done), but it just says nothing about her maturity.

  2. When I was her age I was getting to know my boyfriend. When we had known each other for several months and he had come over to the house often, my parents let him stay the night. Even when he was first allowed to sleep over, we didn’t immediately have sex. We waited for weeks even after that. Can you imagine what a lovely experience that was, to become that close before ever even having sex? Would never have happened at a later age, or if my parents hadn’t let me. It meant that with the consequences sex can have, I was in the safest place possible, with the option of talking to my parents about anything, crying on their shoulders had he left me. My first time could not have been happier, safer or more beautiful! My parents were pretty clear on the whole thing: they knew my SO well by then (he was older and not a virgin, ooh), they knew he & I were responsible in every way regarding BC/STDs/emotions, they knew we could discuss anything. This was well over 11 years ago, my SO and I are still together. :slight_smile: Just an anecdote…

  3. I wonder about your concerns regarding her responsibility. You seem to know her very well, and you seem to discuss this issue openly. From what you say your daughter seems responsible and intelligent. Her not being adequately aware of the responsibilities & risks surrounding sex somehow seems strange. I would try to find out more, to start with. She may surprise you. If not, she isn’t ready and needs to be made aware that that is a reason you don’t want her to have sex.

  4. You might want to consider among your own motivations for not wanting her to have sex: she is your daughter. Your purpose is to protect her, and sex is emotionally & physically, in some ways “dangerous”. That makes the thought of daughter + sex naturally icky. But that doesn’t make you right. I’m sure you have considered this, but I think it will be helpful to figure out what lies behind your “I don’t want this”-instinct.

  5. Consider as a reason you may not want this all the negative emotions we as a culture carry about sex. Sex is bad, a sin, it’s yucky. We may not think that really, but it is a fairly ingrained part of our culture. Firstly, it’s not something you want her to pick up. Secondly, though I’m very sure this is not your reason for not wanting her to have sex, it might be worth examining within your motivation. Our society constantly tells us sex is bad, and that it has bad outcomes for people. Has this rubbed off on you?

  6. To me, personally, without knowing much about either of them, it sounds as though they just need to get to know each other better. I also think you could get to know the girlfriend better.

  7. I must agree with many other Dopers, that sex is natural and beautiful between two consenting, responsible people. Trying to stop it merely for the sake of age, or because you find it icky makes no sense to me. It makes sense if you feel that they could get to know each other a little better before embarking on the next big step though. It also makes sense if you receive clear signals that she is not responsible enough for this.

  8. Is not wanting her to get hurt a good reason to deny her this?

I hope there’s something in there that helps, and I’m sorry it’s so long & repeats a lot of what others have said!

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Ruby Regarding point 1: many people describe “always having known” their sexuality (which usually means it deviates from the hetero sexual norm). This would imply it does not necessarily mean someone is developing an interest in sex at the moment they come out.

However, if at 15 someone says they have no interest in sex… I would seriously doubt that statement. It’s possible, just unlikely.

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AH :S can’t read US dates!!! So confused, I swear I somehow thought this thread was today…

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i get cynical whenever teens are concerned. it’s an age wherein one’s body is developing faster than one’s mind. i see nothing wrong with iron-clad rules to keep them in line.

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A bit of culture-shock going on here, it seems.

My mom wanted to know where I was and who I was with. Sex was expected to be with a condom, drugs were expected never to enter the home. As it happened, she talked about it so often and about her own bad and good experience I became a Christian and avoided it all for nearly a decade.

(Have since left the church.)

-I think it’s reasonable to ground her for going against your agreement.

-I think it does not make sense for two kids who are dating to have a sleep-over in separate rooms. This is confusing for them. She needs to go home at night if they aren’t staying in the same room, and it’s up to you. It’s your house. You’re not comfortable with it. The end. How much you can control her outside of the home is a different story. Hopefully being open and positive will set up good incentives for her to think through this more.

-I think you should have long and frequent talks about your expectations for her and her girlfriend, and engage her in conversation (even if it’s grunts), so she knows you know and care and consider it your right to do so as long as she’s a minor living in your home. These talks should involve STD prevention, in particular lesbian-specific prevention.

-I think it’s great she has a counselor/therapist/whatever, another adult, with whom she can talk about this. I think you should let the counselor know where you stand and what your rules are. She can’t tell you what was said in confidence but if it’s open she can better judge how to advise your daughter.

I have two small kids. In ten years that will be my daughter. At least there’s no pregnancy risk with this partner.

I think whether or not they have sex depends on whether they’re ready, and since I don’t know your kid, I can’t say. I don’t think, however, her developing sexuality can be attributed to her partner. 15-16 is just when that happens for a lot of people.

Finally, teenagers are capable of planning. They aren’t good at it, or as reliable as adults, but they can.