I hope not - I was one!
I suppose you could always frame it like, “Well, if you can’t stay away from Lady X for eight hours to sleep, clearly you aren’t responsible and mature enough to be of sound mind to decide that it is now OK to have a sexual relationship.”
You never know. I once had the privilege of working at a high school with the highest STD rate in the district (according to their health clinic). Sexually active teens are more likely to be stupid about these things, not less likely.
Of course you cannot absolutely prevent a person in their mid-teens from being sexually active, and to even attempt so would be foolhardy. What a parent can do is have a say in what role sex plays in a child’s life, by making it clear how they feel about that activity and setting limits.
There is a difference between experimentation (which can start to be appropriate at that age) and making something a lifestyle.
Think about drug use for a minute. Most parents know their kid will eventually smoke pot at least once. Most parents do not approve of this, but chances are if they heard their kid took a hit off a bong at the party, they’d probably feel mild disappointment, maybe keep an eye out for signs of drug abuse for a few weeks, and then pretty much not worry about it. But if that same kid was caught rolling joints and getting high at home? Even without the legal liability, most parents would not be okay with that. Even parents with perfectly happy and successful pot-smoking friends would probably prefer that their children not turn pot smoking into a lifestyle at such a young age.
The same concept works with sex. It’s not so bad for a girl’s budding sexuality to be explored slowly, in snippets, on stolen time. It gives time for a girl to make sense of her experiences, and to figure out how sexuality fits into the rest of her life. A 15 year old should be approaching sex with a sense of wonder, not with the sense of been-there-done-that utility that a woman of 30 might.
And one way to keep that is not to give her the things that a 30 year old woman has, such as a private bedroom free to any sleepover guests. You can begin to explore your sexuality without turning your childhood bedroom into a sleazy college-style crash pad. There is college and beyond for having routine sex like that. At this age, it’s not so bad for it to be something they rarely get to do and need to work to make arrangements for.
And that’s what you call an “open discussion” about this rule? Sounds more like extortion to me! A teenager in the midst of her first love – you could force her to ‘agree’ to almost anything given that. Captured soldiers are forced to ‘agree’ to the POW camp* regulations, but they have no moral obligation to obey them. Equally, I see nothing wrong with her defying this forced ‘agreement’ (except that she let herself get caught!).
I just don’t understand why you are making this such a big issue. What do you hope to accomplish?
Teenagers who have started having sex are not going to stop just because you tell them to. But they will stop talking to you about it, and stop listening to anything you might say about it. Not a way to encourage an adult dialog, or adult decision-making.
Teenagers who have started having sex are not going to stop because you threaten them with vague ‘disease’ or emotional health risks. In fact, because they have to hide it from you, they are less likely to take appropriate precautions. Again, this doesn’t seem like what you want to encourage.
You really don’t seem able to articulate why you object to this, other than that it makes you ‘uncomfortable’. I can assure you, the very thought of her parents having sex makes your teenager even more uncomfortable!
- I’m about the 3rd or 4th poster her to use a prisoner in a POW camp as an analogy for your family home. Doesn’t that give you some pause?
No. There are various species where only the dominant male or female is allowed to have sex.
I applaud you for having what seems to be a quite open relationship with your daughter,** I’m Not Dennis Bergkamp.** That you and your wife are involved, and certainly caring parents, is commendable.
I think the reality is, though, that part of being a teenager is the moving away from parental control, the feeling of knowing more than they do, the idea that nobody but your peers understand you.
So no matter what you try, and no matter your good intentions, your 15-year-old is already on a decision course (not a collision course) and you and your wife have fading influence. It’s not that your daughter doesn’t care what you think; she just cares more about what she thinks, and how she feels right now.
That she has a 17-year-old girlfriend has given her maturity by proxy. That she has ‘come out’ has given her the kudos of courage, ‘adult’ conversation, and the ‘adult’ strategy of having a therapist.
Sex is not a rational thing. There is nothing rational, logical, or reasonable you can say or do to have her back in the place you dearly want her to be - unquestioning of your well thought out decisions; all made to protect her, and make her life happy and enjoyable.
The power has shifted, and it’s new territory for all. She’s on a venture of self - you can’t stop her, and, as uncomfortable as it is, you need to change your view of her by one degree. Try reframing it for yourself: be proud that she is a confident young woman, open to confirming the sexuality that’s so far been under family discussion.
In matters of the heart (yours and hers) often little can be explained; often less can be justified. You don’t have to encourage the sex in your home, but you have to understand that she’s a sexual being now. Still the same person, moving to another stage in her life. There is no failure here. Don’t question her (her sex life is her own business, really - as is everyones) let her find out the responsibilities of the heart that that brings. After all, we all did, and we all put it down to ‘experience.’
I think the ‘breaking the rule’ thing is just a place to be able to heap your disappointment that she’s growing up. And it’s an easier area to think about implementing some kind of punishment. In your open discussion family, just tell her you’re disappointed. Tell her it’s not easy being a dad and knowing that this is the beginning of a new phase in her life; somewhere where you know you’ll be invited less and less. Tell her that you have confidence in her always making the right decisions for herself, and if she feels unsure, you and her mom are always there for her.
I think that’s the best you can do.
Underlines mine. Your daughter was keeping her part of the deal, since sleeping wasn’t what was in the plans. If you want her to refrain from having sex in your house, you need to learn to be more explicit.
I realize this is your experience, but mine is the opposite. Being in a relationship involved (for myself, my brothers, our close friends, and the relatives of the previous two generations whose stories I know) a larger circle of friends or more circles of friends.
Although it’s very clear you’re trying to do the best by her, I have to agree wtih others that you’re approaching this poorly. I still remember and resent siilar conversations with my parents at that age.
If a teenage couple is monogamous and uses appropriate protection, it’s okay for them to be sexually active with one another. Yes, there’s tremendous heartache there, but that heartache is an inevitable part of growing up and exploring romantic/sexual relationships.
Teenage infatuation is a pretty amazingly strong emotional state to be in. It’s very different from married love, which is strong but more complicated and of necessity more concerned with practicalities. Teenage love is all heart and gonads.
She hadn’t gotten to see the person she loves in several months. When her parents said, “You can see her only if you don’t have sex,” what was she supposed to do–make a principled stand against an unfair rule? Say, “I won’t accept those conditions, sorry”?
Yes, she betrayed your trust. But she did it because of an unfair rule. She really wanted to see (and have sex with) the person she loved. She worked toward her goal the only way she could.
My own daughter is only two now, so I have awhile before I’m confronted with similar dilemmas. I hope to handle them by saying, “Look, your sex life makes me uncomfortable to think about. But if it’s voluntary, and if you’re being very careful about physical risks, and if you’re able to think about what’s going on, then I’ll do my best to support you.” There are other areas (hard drugs, work ethic) where I’m willing to lay down the law–but I don’t think teenage sexuality is such an area.
They spent one week together at summer camp where they actually had very little unsupervised time together (not by intention, it’s just a small camp). My daughter assures me that they did not have sex at camp and I believe her.
As for the STD rsk, it bears repeating that we know very little about the girlfriend. The fact that she’s two years older does give me pause, though.
I don’t see it as extortion at all. My daughter asked us if her girlfriend could visit and my wife and I agreed to it, under certain conditions. My daughter was free to discuss the conditions and argue against them, but she needed to do so prior to the visit. This is our standard procedure for how we handle our rules; she knows how it works and she’s not shy about arguing her case.
What I’m trying to accomplish is to make my daughter give some serious thought to whether she’s mentally and emotionally ready to become sexually active (and I don’t think this is clear, she hasn’t yet become active as far as I know–she had been in the other bedroom for only a few minutes before my wife and I found her there, due to a creaky stair). I don’t expect to stop her if that’s really what she wants to do, nor do I want to make her a prisoner. I just want to make her consider the potential consequences, which is something I don’t think she has yet done.
Thanks to the geographical distance between her and her girlfriend, I have the time to make that argument without having to try to keep them apart in the meantime.
I’ve summarized the discussions here, but we were very explicit. There was no ambiguity on the rule, nor has my daughter tried to claim that there was.
Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. I disagree that it’s an unfair rule, though, for the reasons explained upthread. Those weren’t the conditions for the visit, exactly, they were conditions for the girlfriend to stay in our house. She could have come and stayed at a hotel, for example. That way, my daughter would not have needed to agree to the rule and still could’ve seen her girlfriend. (Of course, we wouldnt have let her spend the night at the hotel, either, so if her mission was to have sex, then her best course was to agree to the rule, then break it. Maybe that’s what she did, though she days she originally intended to follow the rule.)
I agree with all of this, which is why my wife and I are trying to have this discussion with my daughter now. And because of the physical distance between my daughter and her girlfriend, that’s all this is at the moment–a dialogue between us about whether my daughter is ready to have sex at 15. We’re trying to make sure she understands all of the implications, which, frankly, my wife and I aren’t sure we fully understand. (Hence this thread.)
If she can convince us that she’s ready, we’re willing to be convinced. We’re absolutely not approaching this situation by saying “here’s the rule, we’re right, you must obey.” Everything’s up for discussion.
What does she have to do to convince you she’s ready other than sneaking into the basement where her girlfriend is?
I’m not sure, honestly. It’s something I’m still trying to figure out. The only thing I took from her sneaking into the basement, though, is that she wants to have sex, not that she’s ready for it.
For starters, she’d have to convince me that she really does appreciate the physical risks of engaging in sex with someone she barely knows. At the moment, she absolutely does not. That bothers me.
No offense, but I don’t think you are really listening to some of the posters in this thread. Look at you own words a moment, highlighted. Take off the “dad” hat for second, and really read what you expressed.
In the fist passage you seem to feel that you have some sort of control over this. You do not. You can prevent the GF from visiting, you can keep an eye on them as much as possible, but if she wants it, she will get it. My mother was much the same with me at that age, and all it taught me was how to lie efficiently to get some alone time. You seem to be more open to the idea, but everything I’ve read tells me that you really aren’t ready to accept her as a sexual being yet.
You haven’t really mentioned yet what WOULD convince you. Despite your protestations otherwise, I don’t think you are ready to be convinced.
You then go on in other posts to highlight your own missteps and narrow escapes (so to speak) and wish for her not to make the same. To a degree this is admirable. On the other hand, her window for true physical danger is minute. She cannot become pregnant, and it is unlikely that her GF has an STD. A simple test can clear that up, and you are left back in the same position you are now, with less ammo, and an even more furious daughter.
Of course she doesn’t. She’s 15. There’s a lot of stuff she ain’t gonna get. Most sexual encounters for the first ten years ARE with people you barely know. That, fortunately or unfortunately, is half the fun. You can’t protect her from that. Safe sex to a teenager is not fun sex, mostly. And seriously, with pregnancy not a risk, what do you want her to do? Produce a clean STD test from her girlfriend?
No, but I’d like to see some sign that she’s actually thought about the risks and spoken to her girlfriend about them.
Safe sex may not be fun sex to a teenager, but I owe it to my daughter to make sure she at least understands the risks before she engages in any potentially unsafe sex.
I’m not trying to shut down her sex life, honestly. I’m only trying to make sure she has all of the information she needs in order to properly evaluate the risks and make informed judgments about the activities in which she wants to engage. And to see some indication that she’s mature enough to actually work through that process.