That was a fantastic post, all the points you made in it are dead on. I’m the same guy I used to be in terms of content, I’ve just learned how to present it in a REALLY efficient manner. I don’t lie to girls at all, I’ll even admit my faults to them or apologize if I fuck up. I just know how to do those things in an attractive way (ie - presentation).
A girl was asking my two friends and I what our favorite song in a music genre was last weekend. They both answered with song names and when she got to me, well, I legitimately don’t like that genre so I told her flat out “Sorry, that genre sucks. :P” She gave me props for being honest and held up her hand wanting me to high-five her. If I was just feeding her content I thought she wanted to hear, I’d have named a song. If I didn’t know how to present “Sorry, that genre sucks. :P” in an attractive way (ie - I faltered on eye-contact, I said it without a confident voice, I tried to word it really politely, etc.) it wouldn’t have gone over well.
haha that could actually work if you said it at the right time in the interaction and with the right tone of voice.
Pickup teaches you to eventually become the Nobu guy wearing a t-shirt and cargo shorts and feeling totally comfortable. It goes back to the “social pressure” concept I talked about at the start of this post. The guy uncomfortable even when dressed up is still at a point where social pressure affects him…he’s externally validated and feels low-value and hopes no one can tell that he’s just faking high-value. The guy in a t-shirt is completely unaffected by it because he’s internally validated and knows he’s high-value.
This.
Yep, I know a LOT of nerds who are the nicest guys in the UNIVERSE. They are good people down to the core, and they are dying to treat some girl like a princess. But they don’t know how to present all this good stuff they have to people so they play World of Warcraft on a Friday night and spank it to porn.
No it’s a very detailed, very time-consuming way of answering “I’m not jumping for you, I don’t even know if you give good head yet. ;)” when a game-playing woman says “Jump”. If you can’t understand the nuances (demonstrating high-value, not jumping through hoops, qualifying the girl, reversing the frame, etc.) in that last sentence then you should give the thread a re-read.
The woman goes home alone too. You’re still looking at sex as something guys are lucky to get and women give but don’t enjoy. Women love sex, and a guy who can’t read a girl’s interest level leaves a lot of women horny, frustrated, angry, spurned, etc. The women are missing out too.
Wow, we’re playing the exaggeration game now hey? I’ve addressed this earlier in this post so I’m not even going to respond, I just wanted to quote it for the epic shock value haha
Who’s more likely to rape a woman? The frustrated angry guy who can’t figure women out and grows bitter and resentful of them for rejecting him and being so confusing and not saying what they mean and ditching him for the jock asshole and blah blah blah
Or the guy who understands women and gets that they’re playing a game he hasn’t learned the rules to quite yet but is well on the road to figuring out so he can have consentual sex with a woman who actually WANTS to have sex with him?
Addressed this earlier in this post.
Explained this one a billion times in the thread already, they’re not trophies. Please re-read the thread if you’re going to just re-state silly arguments that have already been addressed and clarified.
This. It’s fun to make sweeping “rally up the crowd, we gotta’ burn them witches!!!” posts and all but you’re kind of undermining the last like 10 pages of actual discussion with your silly post.
Rather than try and quote-by-quote your earlier post, I’ll point out that having an issue with idiots giving groups a bad name isn’t just about “Social Pressure”- I can think of at least two countries where it’s extremely difficult for law-abiding citizens to own firearms as a result of a tiny number of idiots Doing The Wrong Thing.
So yeah, What People Think (or their “Perceptions”) can actually be pretty important.
As to your lengthy response to my question about how to handle someone getting aggressive because you’re cock-blocking them (for want of a better term): Seriously, is there not a point or situation where you (metaphorically) put your hands up, say “Sorry, my bad” and then exit as quickly as possible? Because if your response is “No”, I would suggest you might be fibbing a wee bit.
Honestly, a lot of what you’re saying just does not fit with my own experiences of How Things Work. No-one “Wins” all the time at whatever they do, no matter how good they are- The World’s Best Salesman cannot close every sale, the World’s Best Athlete will not win every event, and The World’s Best Pickup Artist cannot convince every single woman they meet to have sex with them- Windmills do not work that way.
Politicians outlaw firearms because of…? Social pressure. If the social pressure your group creates is more than the other group, then the law changes. Women created massive social pressure and women’s lib changed (and is still changing) society’s view on women’s rights. If they hadn’t created social pressure, we’d still be living in the 1940s. Columbine happens and parents pressure teachers to suspend kids who point a chicken mcnugget at another student.
It’s important to keep in mind that the most social pressure doesn’t necessarily mean the most right: A very vocal minority can create more social pressure than a quiet majority.
I back off all the time, because I don’t want to risk a fight over a girl in a bar I’ve just met, and there are plenty of other girls I can go talk to instead of that particular one. But that doesn’t mean it’s an impossible situation, it’s just more hassle for me to deal with than it’s worth to me.
Even if you go up and “win” an AMOG battle with a guy, that doesn’t mean the girl is going to be attracted to you. And some guys don’t care about social pressure because they’re mentally not all there and will just scrap for the hell of it. Some guys will get crazy territorial over a girl that’s not even into them just because they think someday they’ll “get” her so you turn around and 6 big gangster dudes are in your face telling you to “walk away, man.”
That’s why AMOGing is dangerous.
If you’re in a situation where you have to back off (like the 6 gangsters telling you to “walk away” after you took a girl from one of them), well, how do you do it? If you’re a normal drunk guy you probably lip off a bit and then get stabbed. If you’re a normal sober guy you probably get scared shitless and, since they see they’re intimidating you, they escalate things. If you’re a normal guy who’s not afraid to fight, you might take a fighting stance or take off your hat or something getting ready which can trigger them to fight just based on your body language telling them “I’m accepting that this is a fight”. If you’re a normal guy who’s into the girl you might try to logic with them and tell them “She’s not into you man, she’s into me!” and get jumped for bruising their ego.
If you’re a PUA you know they’re mad because they think the girl belongs to them and can’t tell she’s not into them, so you know you have to build that ego back up even if it’s bullshit. They’re also mad because they have a large group and they can be mad, so fighting or making any aggressive movements is out. They’re also mad because they think you’ll be intimidated by them, that’s why they have 6 of them. And at the end of the day, most of it comes down to feeling “disrespected”. You also know you have to show enough backbone/authority that they won’t see you as easy prey (see any kid being bullied daily in elementary school for this lesson) but not enough that it instigates a big fight.
So you take all those elements and go “HEY. Sorry man, my bad. No worries, you’re the man. It’s all good. We’re good here. We’re cool. She’s not into me anyway, we’re cool man.” as you back away (without turning your back). You do this with a loud voice, use a breaking rapport (everything’s a statement, not a question) and you avoid using phrases like “I don’t want to fight you” etc. that get that idea cycling in their head. And then you get around a corner or behind a pillar or something so you’re out of their direct sight, and run like a motherfucker.
If an angry boyfriend comes up, well hell, you’re IN the wrong, you don’t AMOG him, you do the same thing. “HEY. Sorry man, my bad. I didn’t realize she was taken, it’s cool man, no hard feelings. You’re a lucky guy, she’s a cool chick, it’s all good man, you guys have a good night!” and back off (I like to leave the bar after this, just to not poke the luck-bear).
This girl I used to fuck was out with this huge jacked up dude who was one of her orbiters. I ran into them randomly at the bar and she wanted to fuck but he was tagging along like crazy. I ended up pulling her into a cab and we were heading for my place when the guy started phoning her asking where she was. He was at a pizza place up the street and we had the cab turn back around and went in…that was stupid of me right there, but this was early on when I was still learning how jealous a guy who doesn’t even have a chance with a girl I’ve already had sex with can get when he thinks he has “dibs”.
Anyway, they’re yelling inside the store and I’m just waiting it out figuring she’ll tell him she’s leaving with me so I sit on the sidewalk leaning back against the brick building bored. Suddenly the guy comes storming out furious. He’s going on and on about how a gentleman doesn’t treat a girl like that blah blah blah and is absolutely full of rage. I can SEE he’s actually getting into a kicking stance. I see his foot slide back a bit, he’s basically lining me up to football-kick my head against the brick wall.
I can’t move my legs without him noticing and they’re kind of almost in a position to try to trip his leg up as a last-second hail-mary effort if I see him start to swing his leg, but realistically he’s so big and jacked up that I know I’m completely fucked if he wants to splat my head like a grape.
But again I know the situation. I know if I back down, he’ll see it as weakness. I know if I’m too aggressive, it’ll start the fight. I know I’ve bruised his ego and I know exactly what he thinks of me because he’s given me the “that’s not how you treat a lady” shpiel, I know not to make movements he can interpret as starting the fight, I know not to say words that’ll set him off, I know not to try to defend my actions even though she’s obviously into me and not him, etc.
So motionless I say “It’s cool man, we’re cool, her and I are just friends, my bad man, you’re right, it’s cool, there’s no trouble here, we’re good, there’s no trouble tonight, we’re good.” and I just keep repeating it and keeping a calm but assertive voice, making statements that there’s no trouble, that we’re good, etc. Basically massive massive frame control. The guy is dying to kick my head in but I’m not doing anything he can use to justify it and after the longest 5 minutes of my almost-too-short life, he finally relaxes his leg and turns to the girl and the second his attention is no longer on me I calmly stand up and just walk in the opposite direction around the corner and run like a motherfucker.
I made a lot of mistakes getting INTO that situation in the first place, and experiences like that are why I don’t like to bother taking girls from guys…but understanding the social dynamics saved my ass.
Most people who get into fights at a bar get into fights because they’re stupid. You can’t do much about the random drunk hobo who stabs you for heroine money when you’re getting into your car, but you can sure as shit avoid a fight in a bar over a girl. That’s why guys who take martial arts suddenly stop getting into fights on the street…they learn to avoid, diffuse, or walk away from the situation before it gets to the level where fists are flying.
With the hotdog guy I could’ve just not said anything and let the hotdog guy get verbally abused, I don’t know him, it won’t affect my life if he has a bad night. But I was able to read the situation (I have 3 girls on my side, and a tall fight-ready friend, etc.) and knew it’d be an easy diffuse…that’s why I was calm and handled it effortlessly, whereas with the guy who wanted to kick my head in I was scared shitless through the whole interaction because I knew how serious it could be if I slipped up.
A lot of it is frame control. I was walking home after the bar by myself with two slices of pizza one night and a huge drunk frat-jock guy (all the guys in my stories are big because I’m small btw, I’m 5’9" and not built or anything and these days the jacked-up MMA Jersey Shore douche look is what all the young’uns are shooting for) is walking toward me. He goes “HEY. That pizza looks good. Where’d you get it.” I say with a big ol’ friendly smile “Up the street at the Pizza Place! You should get a slice it’s awesome!” and he slurs “I want YOUR slice.” and gets a foot or two away from me.
So what do you do? Control the frame. He’s not threatening me directly and I haven’t bruised his ego or anything, so I know I don’t have to tell him he’s the man or that there’s no trouble or that it’s my bad or anything but I DO know that if I back down or run away he might move on that. So I just have to out frame-control him long enough to get away. Confident assertive voice making statements again, “Well I’m saving the other slice for later, but I’m almost done this slice, you can have the crust.” He goes “If you give me that crust I’m going to fucking throw it at the next car that goes by.” (?? I dunno, this made sense to him) I told him “Oh, okay well then I guess I won’t give you the crust. Have a good night guys!” and cross the street and flag down the next cab coming up the street.
Yes, I agree. In fact I’ve stated that PUAs can’t “convince every single woman they meet to have sex with them” many many many many many many many many times throughout this thread.
I’m enjoying explaining the dynamics behind AMOGing because it’s a new topic, but it’s looking like this thread is starting to just keep looping with people bringing up things that I already covered back near the start where I joined this thread (post 253 I think?) so I’m probably going to just start responding “See earlier in thread.” to the stuff that’s repeating. No offense or anything since you probably just joined the thread but I spend a long time typing my posts up and I don’t really want to re-type them or go back and find myself to quote myself when if you simply read the thread you’d already see why stuff like the above statement is null and void.
Also with regards to handling every angry guys or getting every girl etc:
I’m not saying every situation will go 100% smoothly. Even the jillion pages of info I just described about AMOG principles up above only scratches the surface of how those interactions work and how to deal with them…that’s why pickup isn’t something you learn in a weekend. I have 6 years of experience with this stuff but there are girls I can’t get and sooner or later I’ll probably end up in a bar fight I can’t get out of (though I could just not GO to bars and stick to the much safer Daygame environment haha)
All I’m trying to do is show that there are a myriad of very learnable logical skills that can handle a lot of situations where most people just cross their fingers and hope it all works out. Same as learning a martial art doesn’t mean you’ll never get hit but it means you’re extremely well equipped to handle yourself in a fight compared to the average Joe who just swings his arms wildly hoping he wins.
Given that your… lifestyle (for want of a better term) is something that rather a lot of women might have a problem with, surely you can see why being concerned about members of your community Doing The Wrong Thing might be a good idea though? That’s the point I was trying to make, albeit in a fairly oblique way
Fair enough; that’s all I was trying to establish. The way you were talking before sort of ties into my next point though:
The thing is, I don’t recall any of your anecdotes (at least the detailed ones) that involve you not eventually “Winning”. So we get a skewed perspective that you (and by extension all PUAs) are made of pure win and awesome, which might be politely considered an “unbalanced” point of view. Obviously everyone wants to paint themselves in the best possible light, but even so.
ETA: On preview, I’ve just seen your additional post acknowledging this to an extent. Looks like we’re on the same page for the most part, then.
And you’ll state it a million more times before anyone gets it.
Here’s a lesson for you that I just imparted to my eldest daughter:
Jesus Christ was put to death based on words taken totally out of context. If he couldn’t avoid it, then you ain’t got a chance. If the road to hell is paved with good intentions, then it is steeply graded and greased with misinterpretations.
I agree with it, but like, my concern is when I describe techniques I include warnings and enough examples to get the point across and stress not to try certain things until you’ve built your way up to them and have the calibration to handle them. But for me, that’s where my personal responsibility ends. If I were teaching martial arts, I’d not just teach how to kick someone in the head but also that doing so should be a last resort and sometimes a simple shove-and-run is enough to get out of the situation, or that there are legal consequences if you use excessive force, etc. etc.
But at the end of the day, once that guy leaves my dojo, I can’t control whether he’s going to use his powers for good or evil, all I can do is hope I’ve educated him enough that he wants to use them for good. If I found out he ninja-kicked a bunch of kids in the head, I would feel bad for the kids and be disappointed in him, but I wouldn’t feel personally responsible for it and I wouldn’t consider the skills not something appropriate to teach, because that wasn’t their intended purpose…that guy has just perverted the teachings.
haha oh I can tell you a FUCK-ton of anecdotes where I bombed horribly or completely made an ass of myself. But generally when explaining concepts it’s more useful to give an example of it working and present an example of it not working more for contrast to the working example.
If you just want to hear some stories where I’m an idiot, I have no problems telling them haha At the time they were embarrassing but now they’re just funny “wow I can’t believe I thought that’d work” stories to me.
When I help other guys out (friends or just random guys who ask for advice, I’m not an actual PUA instructor or anything) I’ll often tell them honest embarrassing stories from my experiences that they can relate to. If a guy is nervous about approaching I’ll tell him about some times I made an ass of myself approaching so he sees it’s not such a big deal. If a guy has the hovering hand of doom around a girl where he’s just slightly too scared to actually touch her, I’ll tell him about times I did the exact same thing so he realizes he’s normal and every guy has those fears.
Fighting-wise, I’ve always “won” so far, because I’m still alive to post this message. But I take very pre-emptive steps to avoid being in situations that can turn violent compared to the average guy (like I say, I don’t AMOG guys these days unless a guy is purposely being a dick to me and then I AMOG him in a social way instead of a physical way because I know a social way is less likely to lead to a fight). I’ve talked down or avoided a TON of potentially dangerous situations.
I would think that much like martial arts, a lot of PUA technique will help you recognize how to AVOID getting into a bar fight with a jealous boyfriend. For example, in Mystery’s show, one of the things he teaches is to get the dudes in a “set” comfortible with you before you start hitting on the girls. From experience and observation, I can tell you that the drunk dude walking up to a mixed group and hitting on the girls will cause a nearly instant negative reaction. OTOH, if you get cool with the guys first, the girls in the group will see that you are a “cool guy”. The guys will see that you are a cool guy because their female friends like you. Next stop, Bootyhookuptown.
yep. Notice that in my story above where i almost got my head kicked in I didn’t make any attempt to befriend the guy. I had already fucked this girl so in my mind I was taking her home, sorry dude already got dibs. But he didn’t know that (her friends all think she’s an angel who doesn’t have sex) and I just kidnapped her away so from his view it’s like “who the fuck is THIS guy?”. Doesn’t matter that she’s just using him for a ride to the bar and free drinks. Doesn’t matter that he has no actual shot. All that matters is his perception of the situation and my mistake was not managing that perception…end result = my head almost splattered.
When I say I can take girls from guys I realize now i should be more clear in that I take them in a socially competent way. Like “taking a girl from a guy” might be just befriending the guy and showing a little higher value to get his girl interested and then he realizes she’s choosing me so he backs off and let’s me have her.
This is why I prefer the friendly AMOG tactics because often the guys are nice dudes or good friends with girls they’re in the friend zone with so if they dig me they end up setting me up with the girls in their group.
Same with a gaggle of girls. All you need is one of them to like you and she’ll help you out. If I congratulate a bachelorette I’ll ask her which of her friends are single and she’ll set me up. He’ll last week a friend’s fuckbuddy showed up and she dug my vibe and had brought her sister out (she was up visiting) and they wanted to get laid. My friend was taking his girl and his girl was telling me “you have to fuck my sister!!”. I wasn’t really into her (attractive but she had braces! Not my thing) and her sister had other guys buying her drinks and stuff but because I had a connection with the one girl she was like “no those guys are lame I want YOU to fuck her!!”
Befriend the group. Lead the men. Get the approval of the “mother hen”. From there it’s easy, they will throw their available friends at you.
Most fights I’m around are started or escalated by people in my social circles who aren’t game-savvy. For a lot of guys “fuck or fight” is their motto for the bar.
It’s obviously not a good thing, but I don’t think the men are more to blame than the women. Seems to me, the women who sleep with these guys are playing the same game. Men who are insecure in their masculinity are validating their manliness by getting laid, and the women who are charmed by these insincere techniques are seeking to affirm their femininity (a.k.a. hotness) by receiving attention from more attractive males. Women, however, don’t need a book about it. Do we, girls? Even if you don’t play the game yourself, you know ladies that do.
Unfortunately, that’s because in today’s world, girls recognize early on that the most powerful thing they can be is an incredibly hot chick. Don’t believe me? Alright, show me an unattractive female politician. In fact, turn on your t.v. right now and see how long it takes you to find an unattractive woman. It took a little while, didn’t it?
It’s does seem a little more reprehensible on the male side of the field, but only because the endgame is seems to be sex, 100% of the time. Women want to get laid too, but they also want to avoid the title of Slut. And women don’t need to get laid to get some of that validation either, whereas men don’t seem to get any satisfaction unless they get us naked.
I’m surprised that nobody has told these men and women that sex is infinity better with someone that you love and admire. I realize it sounds cheesy, but anyone who has been in love knows exactly what I’m talking about.
P.S. Prostitution should be legal as a course of public safety. When people can’t get laid they spend all of their time doing stupid things, like trying to get laid. Prostitution is a time honored practice. Making it illegal doesn’t stop it from happening, it just makes the whole thing shadier.
But, you see, it’s different when women do it.
It’s always different. And more noble. Because they’re the fairer sex and all that.
And never, ever, ever bring up the phrase “sexual manipulation” unless you want to be tarred, feathered, shot, hung and dragged to the bonfire at The Pit!
Again there’s that notion that everyone who doesn’t view the world like you do must be insecure. Is it really impossible to believe that someone could decide they LIKE having more than one woman in their life? That they LIKE meeting new people, hearing new stories, having new adventures, meeting new personalities, having different types of sex, making new friends, being out and social instead of staying in playing Cranium with other boring couples, and NOT want to just settle down into a boring routine monogamous relationship where (as evidenced by the “lack of sex in my marriage” threads) often the sex dies down to a couple of times a year IF neither side is cheating or planning an all-too-common-these-days divorce?
My picking up has nothing to do with validating my manliness, it has to do with knowing what I like and not being ashamed to go for it. I can’t complain at all about my dating life or my relationships because they’re exactly what I know is what I want right now. How many people stuck in shitty sexless/abusive/cheating/etc. relationships can say that?
Are polygamists and people who have open marriages/relationships in general all insecure to you?
haha I honestly don’t know if you’re joking here. But on the off chance that you aren’t, there’s The Rules, Cosmo and every other “how to land your man” magazine article in existance, movies/TV/etc. where the plain jane girl lands the football jock when her friends give her a do-over She’s All That style…and those are just the conscious ways. Unconsciously there’s the culture of women doing themselves up with makeup, getting their hair done, the entire esthetics industry, etc. etc.
Girls learn how to make themselves more attractive to guys. Guys are just now figuring out how to make ourselves more attractive to girls. It’s simply an even playing-field now, it’s silly that guys should catch so much flak for it, or for people to say that it doesn’t work or that a girl can spot game and it wouldn’t work on her. Guys know a girl in a push-up bra and wearing makeup doesn’t look like that on a Sunday morning but it still attracts us.
Fuck, they tell us that ALL the time haha It’s probably true for some people but it’s not an overall rule at all. I’ve been in serious relationships and the sex was no better, and, in fact, over time it was worse because you both have learned eachother’s bodies and you start just doing the same routine sex each time. I’d imagine the sex I have with a girl the first month I’ve been dating her is infinitely better than the sex someone in a 10 year marriage is having (the once or twice a year they have it).
Plus with casual sex you get to try new things. If you’re a chick who wants to be choked and slapped around and called a dirty little slut, you’re not going to tell your potential life-mate Nice Guy partner that because you might creep him out and scare him off, but you’ll tell the guy you have a one-night stand with on vacation. I used to hook up with a virgin girl who I introduced to bondage because I could tell she responded well to being dominated in bed. We experimented with some stuff together for a few months and then she found a boyfriend. She’d complain to me that she has to break him into it super slowly and all they’re at is a little light “holding her down”. That guy will forever think he was the first one to tie her up, choke her, etc. down the road because she’s terrified he’ll think she’s a freak and leave her if she admits what she really wants in bed.
I think legal prostitution would be a good release for a lot of guys who don’t want to learn game but are frustrated with women and have rage/bitterness building up toward them.
But PUAs aren’t in it just to get laid. It’d be cheaper/faster and more guaranteed to just hire a hooker. We’re in it to learn how to attract women consistently so that they WANT to have sex with us. Guys will pay thousands to take a training bootcamp and end up with a girl sitting in their lap ready to have sex with them on the bootcamp, but turn her down so they don’t miss out on the debriefing at the end of the night by the instructors breaking down the interactions and how/why things worked or didn’t work. They want to learn to be attractive, not to just get laid.
The end result is that we never have to worry about going without sex, girlfriends, love, etc. and we know that we can attract women even without money, 6-pack abs, a chisled jaw-line, 6+ feet of height, etc. That’s the goal of learning pickup…getting laid by a bunch of cute chicks and being able to make new friends wherever we go is just a fun bonus.
Agreed. The lifestyle isn’t for everyone, but I mean, I don’t want to be the best janitor in the world and there’s probably some guy out there who does…I’m not going to talk shit about his goals, if that’s what he wants, good on him. I’m 100% honest about my intentions which is more than I can say for the guy who pretends to be friends with a girl while having a secret crush on her for years and tries to talk shit about her boyfriends hoping someday she’ll realize he’s “the one” for her, or for the guy who’s dating a girl and cheating on her on the side, or for the guy who’s trapped in a marriage he doesn’t really want to be in anymore but is going along with it and secretly miserable and resenting his wife for not satisfying him.
I’ve posted a bit in this thread over the last few weeks, and it occurred to me that something significant is wholly missing:
Men should read romance novels.
These books have examples of the perfect man that women want. I’m surprised men haven’t tried reading them sooner. I don’t think men even know what’s in these books, to be honest.
Most importantly, they summarize all the effective things in this thread, and the PUA community, without the issues that turn many men and women off. They illustrate how its possible to be an “alpha male” without being misogynistic or being a “jerk”.
I haven’t read romances in years but the misogyny and jerk-factor in most of the ones I encountered was sky-high. Now, there are trends and the like in romances, so that could be very different now. The closest I’ve read in a long time are urban fantasies which tend to involve mentally deficient women wanting to have sex with vampires so… yeah. Misogyny and jerkishness.
What someone reads or fantasizes about ain’t necessarily what they really want. And having met women who DO really want “romance novel man,” well, they are scary.
Some of us read them and realize we’d rather put a bullet in our heads than become a man like that. Or worse, settle with a woman like the ones in those novels: hypergamic, with absolutely nothing to offer in return.
Now if they were to make Chuck (and Sarah) into a romance novel? I might read that. In e-book format, when no one’s looking, of course.
There isn’t nearly the same level of “jerkishness” in these books. If you read some PUA discussions (like Roissy/Chateau) then you’ll understand what levels of misogyny are actually out there. These books are pretty tame when it comes to that.
QED? Figuring out how to make sure there’s food on the table when you want it doesn’t necessarily mean all you ever want to do is eat - it’s just a darn good guarantee against starvation.
