[QUOTE=MHaye]
Consequently (because I’m already committed to this other game) I’ll have to sit out of one or the other of Cecilvania or Atarus’s game - unless I get killed out of one game PDQ.
[/QUOTE]
Sign-up for both, I’ll do my best to get you lynched or killed ASAP. 
[QUOTE=Blaster Master]
You know, you’re right. I just don’t remember much about that game 'cause it was a while ago and I was killed fairly early, at least compared to my normal longevity, and I quit following soon after I was killed when I stopped playing for a while. Of course, I’d really love to get to play with him as scum some time. I could imagine us having that sort of showdown for Days and just completely leading the town around by the nose, and when one of us finally got lynched, the other would probably be scott-free.
[/QUOTE]
My dream is to be scum with you and Roosh. I don’t even care if we’d win or lose. It would just be so wonderfully epic.
[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
My dream is to be scum with you and Roosh. I don’t even care if we’d win or lose. It would just be so wonderfully epic.
[/QUOTE]
Ooh, ooh! A scum team with BlaM!, story, Roosh, zuma, Idle, and autolycus.
[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
My dream is to be scum with you and Roosh. I don’t even care if we’d win or lose. It would just be so wonderfully epic.
[/QUOTE]
With just the three of you, I think the scum boards would crash from the sheer weight of the verbiage being used there.
In other news, I just made this post at the other board in reference to my game coming up. Just putting it over here too to make sure everybody catches it. 
Since this is the most active mafia non-game thread, I’m going to post my thoughts about post editing here.
I think SDMB games should drop the no editing posts rule.
Changing this rule might cause some unforseen problems, but I thought I’d put out the possibility. The potential problem I see so far is someone editing a post and a conflict arising when someone else says "I saw your post before you edited it! You really slipped up and said “Xxxx.” Then an argument follows. I don’t know if this is a good thing or a bad thing, but I see it happening.
Thoughts?
As far as I can tell editing posts come in two flavours.
Someone new always edits their posts at the start of the game and is then told not to or its a major scum slip.
At least 2 games I have been in have been heavily influenced by a scum slip in each. I have a feeling the only reason that there was not a modkill in Sekham was due to the post being spotted before it was edited. I think the same probably goes for the Firefly game off site as well. You would have to ask **Blaster Master ** or **NAF1138/Kat ** if that would have been the case.
I’m aware of the blatant scum slips. I’m just questioning whether we need to enforce a strict rule that doesn’t get enforced anyway.
In sekham, had the post been edited, and the game proceeded without discussion about the editing rule, the person who saw the post could say so and proceed that way. The post was edited and no punishment became of it. So why not just drop the no edit rule?
Also, I think if scum can mis-post, and edit before anyone sees it, all within five minutes, then there isn’t any harm done. (off-board is a different case, as I believe we can modify posts at will)
[QUOTE=sachertorte]
I’m aware of the blatant scum slips. I’m just questioning whether we need to enforce a strict rule that doesn’t get enforced anyway.
In sekham, had the post been edited, and the game proceeded without discussion about the editing rule, the person who saw the post could say so and proceed that way. The post was edited and no punishment became of it. So why not just drop the no edit rule?
Also, I think if scum can mis-post, and edit before anyone sees it, all within five minutes, then there isn’t any harm done. (off-board is a different case, as I believe we can modify posts at will)
[/QUOTE]
No punishment. :dubious:
It gave the names of two of the scum who got lynched on that and the following Day. That is probably punishment enough. A note from **Blaster Master ** about what would have occured if the message had not been spotted would be interesting.
Off board is definitely different as they can be edited whenever, not to mention being able to delete posts as well.
However, I do see your point about dropping the no edit rule, as the time given is so small, although I always wonder why posters cannot use the preview function. I’m sure there are some good reasons. The ability to fix tags and tidy posts up would be really useful.
But the question arises when the SDMB (yes, I’m optimistic) allows longer time periods for editing. Do we at that point say, yes you can still edit or do we ban it again. At what point is editing allowed and at what point can it be abused. 5mins, 10mins, an hour? What do you think sachertorte?
Just a heads up, it looks like Cecilvania will start today. So keep your eyes open. We are just finalizing some color.
[QUOTE=CatInASuit]
No punishment. :dubious:
[/QUOTE]
There was no punishment by the moderator. No one got mod-killed. The ramifications of the post were consistent with the information contained in the post. The only intervention the mod did was confirm that the information was correct, which doesn’t strike me as ‘punishment.’
If the SDMB changed the window time for editing posts, then the editing rule would need to be revisited. I’m just thinking that now, since the window is a nice short 5 minutes, we should take advantage of it.
I’m fine with keeping no-edit as well. It’s a rather minor point. I just notice that someone inevitably does edit, and the result is generally no action. So the rule is de facto not there anyway. And how does one enforce the no-edit rule anyway? mod-kill? replacement?
[QUOTE=sachertorte]
There was no punishment by the moderator. No one got mod-killed. The ramifications of the post were consistent with the information contained in the post. The only intervention the mod did was confirm that the information was correct, which doesn’t strike me as ‘punishment.’
If the SDMB changed the window time for editing posts, then the editing rule would need to be revisited. I’m just thinking that now, since the window is a nice short 5 minutes, we should take advantage of it.
I’m fine with keeping no-edit as well. It’s a rather minor point. I just notice that someone inevitably does edit, and the result is generally no action. So the rule is de facto not there anyway. And how does one enforce the no-edit rule anyway? mod-kill? replacement?
The no edit rule is really there more to discourage editing than anything else. You want to be able to trust that what the person put down originally is what you are seeing. Allowing blatant editing introduces variables of thought processes that I, as a player, frankly don’t want to deal with.
Did this person edit becuse of coding, or did he reword something so it sounded less scummy? One person is editing a lot of their posts, but this player only edited once, is that scummy? Etc, etc.
In a game where everything you do means something, I don’t want to add the additional variable of editing. It isn’t a major rule, but I think it sould be thought of as seriously discouraged because it keeps the game cleaner.
I’m a Fan of the No Edit Rule.
Mostly because I’ve realized it’s not really a problem if you’re town to deal with spelling errors and mistakes like that. Just create another post, is it really that bothersome?
But I can’t tell you how many times I’ve as a Mod caught myself posting something in the wrong thread and deleted it within 30 seconds or so.
If I was scum, it’s just giving me an excuse to be careless then as I do read over my posts, but Scum slips HAVE happened and are a valid part of the game. Also the idea of calling out another player for making a scum slip- that was one of the first things to cross my mind as a way for scum to abuse the Removal of the No Edit rule.
Basically, I just don’t understand WHY you really need to go back and fix your spelling and such nitpicky little things- so you mess up the coding, just repost it again the vote. I’m sure it’s something the other players will understand happens in these sorts of games.
I’d rather have it treated just as a sort of “code of the Mafia” sorta thing- where editing posts is a scum tell, and its not up to the MODS to do the punishment but rather the players all treat it as a punishment (that’ll get rid of the suicidal Townie loophole).
Also, where’s the new Game? I keep fearing I’ve missed it, and can’t see it!
[QUOTE=sachertorte]
I like the No Edit. I always thought it was to prevent info passing in the game thread. Something like “I’m the Seer!” and then editing it out. Mods need to enforce it better if they have the rule.
[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
My dream is to be scum with you and Roosh. I don’t even care if we’d win or lose. It would just be so wonderfully epic.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, gogo [Clusterfuck] FTW! I think someone would have a brain hemorrhage before the game was actually over. Man, that would be a blast.
[QUOTE=CatInASuit]
As far as I can tell editing posts come in two flavours.
Someone new always edits their posts at the start of the game and is then told not to or its a major scum slip.
At least 2 games I have been in have been heavily influenced by a scum slip in each. I have a feeling the only reason that there was not a modkill in Sekham was due to the post being spotted before it was edited. I think the same probably goes for the Firefly game off site as well. You would have to ask **Blaster Master ** or **NAF1138/Kat ** if that would have been the case.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, my support of the no edit rule is basically entirely demonstrated by that case in the Sekham game. Had it not been spotted prior to editting, I’m not 100% sure what I would have done, but since it was, I was faced with an even greater dilemma that was almost impossible to resolve in a way that wouldn’t severely effect the result of the game.
IIRC, up until that point FCoD was under a lot of suspicion, as was Pygmy. Had Pygmy not editted it, it probably could have been leveraged as an attempt to frame NAF. Had it been editted and no one seen it, I could have removed Pygmy, and the suspicion levels on FCoD and NAF would been left intact. However, because it was editted AND it was seen pre-edit, FCoD then had game-breaking information. That, pretty much vindicated FCoD and damned NAF through pure luck in timing and not through normal game mechanics.
There were several tough mod decisions in that game, but that was probably the roughest of them all.
[QUOTE=Blaster Master]
Yes, my support of the no edit rule is basically entirely demonstrated by that case in the Sekham game. Had it not been spotted prior to editting, I’m not 100% sure what I would have done, but since it was, I was faced with an even greater dilemma that was almost impossible to resolve in a way that wouldn’t severely effect the result of the game.
IIRC, up until that point FCoD was under a lot of suspicion, as was Pygmy. Had Pygmy not editted it, it probably could have been leveraged as an attempt to frame NAF. Had it been editted and no one seen it, I could have removed Pygmy, and the suspicion levels on FCoD and NAF would been left intact. However, because it was editted AND it was seen pre-edit, FCoD then had game-breaking information. That, pretty much vindicated FCoD and damned NAF through pure luck in timing and not through normal game mechanics.
There were several tough mod decisions in that game, but that was probably the roughest of them all.
[/QUOTE]
FWIW, in retrospect, I think you ended up making the right call. It cost us the game, but I think it was the right choice.
[QUOTE=sachertorte]
There was no punishment by the moderator. No one got mod-killed. The ramifications of the post were consistent with the information contained in the post. The only intervention the mod did was confirm that the information was correct, which doesn’t strike me as ‘punishment.’
If the SDMB changed the window time for editing posts, then the editing rule would need to be revisited. I’m just thinking that now, since the window is a nice short 5 minutes, we should take advantage of it.
I’m fine with keeping no-edit as well. It’s a rather minor point. I just notice that someone inevitably does edit, and the result is generally no action. So the rule is de facto not there anyway. And how does one enforce the no-edit rule anyway? mod-kill? replacement?
Okay, I don’t think I was clear enough in my thought process in the last post. Had it just been Pygmy who screwed up, I’d have probably just removed him. The problem was that the post also made it damn clear that NAF was scum and it gave FCoD information he shouldn’t have had. Like I said before, if it were the exact same post, but left uneditted, it wouldn’t have necessarily damned NAF, as I’m sure he would have scrabbled with the “he’s pretending to post on the wrong board to get me lynched.” The other problem is, by virtue of having seen the post pre-edit, FCoD pretty much gained confirmed status on top of the new knowledge.
So, here’s how I saw it:
I could have mod-killed Pygmy, but NAF and FCoD still would have been confirmed as scum and town respectively. This pretty much would have ended the game right then and there.
I could have mod-killed both Pygmy and FCoD, but that wouldn’t have been fair to FCoD as he was honest about it, and it wouldn’t make sense to penalize the town.
I could simply confirm what was said which basically confirmed those three as their roles, but such that it at least didn’t end the game right then and there.
I’m still not 100% sure I made the right decision, but I was trying my best to be as equitable as possible, I felt like those confirmations in and of themselves were sufficient punishment. Really, I think if that hadn’t happened, the scum would have won fairly handily.
[QUOTE=Pleonast]
Can you explain in detail? I can’t see how being killed by the mod can benefit a team.
[/QUOTE]
A good example of this is in the Simpletown game where the game became academic by asking the unconfirmed to voluntarily not post and allow himself to be mod-killed.
Well, like others have said, it’s originally there to keep people from tampering with the record. That’s not much of an issue on the Dope because the edit window is short, but in many other sites, you can edit indefinitely, which lets you go back and reword things, or even delete entire posts if they become damning later on.
Sadly, even though 5 minutes is small, it’s still been done. And, as others have said, it introduces a meta-gaming element to the game. Was that post editted just to fix coding and spelling? Was it a slip that no one saw? If someone else claims to have seen it, whom do we believe? It’s an element to the game that just isn’t there in spirit.
IMO, the spirit of the game should be as close to the in person version as possible. There, you can’t unsay anything, and if you slip, it’s there for everyone to hear and interpret as they see fit. Why should that element be changed for online play? Besides, such a rule would also seem to have a benefit to the scum which, of course, could potentially effect balancing and all that.
[QUOTE=Pleonast]
Can you explain in detail? I can’t see how being killed by the mod can benefit a team.
I like the No Edit. I always thought it was to prevent info passing in the game thread. Something like “I’m the Seer!” and then editing it out. Mods need to enforce it better if they have the rule.
[/QUOTE]
Oooh, Thanks Pleonast! This is precisely why I wanted to bring it up. In my head I was thinking, hey editing can’t be so bad, it’s only 5 minutes. But you bring up a really good point. Especially since we have those handy green dots by our screennames. I had a vague feeling that something about allowing brief editing would cause trouble, and your example is a slam-dunk gamebreaker. I feel better now.
But the problem remains:
How does one enforce the no-edit rule?
I’m guessing that a Mod-Kill + Instant Loss is pretty much the only solution.