Jennifer Hudson - Not pitworthy, but a bit angry and mystified.

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

Somewhere that he doesn’t run the risk of being killed as a random victim in a drive by. Sure the dealers and bangers target each other - but you know what? They’re lousy shots. A very large percentage of the people shot by those kids are people just sitting on their porch, or walking down the street, or riding the bus at the wrong time.

Somewhere that the school he attends isn’t under-equipped and his education doesn’t suffer. Yeah, there are better options for schools there, but if they’re CPS schools, there’s a wait list a mile long. Otherwise you pay tuition somewhere.

Somewhere that he isn’t living in the same home with a man with a record a mile long for car theft, and attempted murder. Ok, the guy was related to family. You still have to think about letting that guy live in the same home (as he did previously) as your grandchild.

Within about a 2-3 mile radius of the neighborhood that grandma didn’t want to move from, there are safer, nicer places to live. The south side is a patchwork of neighborhoods - some are Englewood, others are Hyde Park or Beverly.

In their case, and in a lot of others I’m sure - people won’t move. But not a lot of other families have the choices they do. Talk to parents of children in that neighborhood, and I’ll bet a paycheck that if they had the means to, they’d move their families out of there the first chance they get. Proof? Yeah sort of. Talk to almost any suburban school district within a 30-45 mile circle of the city, and every one will tell you about the volume of kids enrolling with guardianship papers to live with an aunt or uncle while their parents are still back in the city.

It’s a big family, so try this. Buy a nice sized house in a better neighborhood, or a nearby suburb - hand grandma the keys and offer any one else that wants to live there a chance to be safe, have good schools for their kids and the chance to sit on your front porch without having to worry about diving inside every time a car drives slowly down your street.

I don’t know a lot about ‘neighborhoods like that’. I’ve been in those neighborhoods. It’s not an exaggeration - some days it’s like a war zone. I walked into a principal’s office not two days after I’d been there before, and found her windows boarded up because right smack in the middle of a school day, two bullets came through.

22

Since the guy that has been arrested has been established as a member of the family, I’m just going to ignore the part of your post that suggests ‘a better neighborhood’ could have prevented that. The mother had a right, no matter where she lived, to marry any man she chose, and she chose a psycho. I have watched the news enough to know that psychos that shoot their own families are in no way something one finds only in the ghetto.

I’m gonna write off the ‘better schools’ thing because my daughter goes to a great school for a city school. That being said, it has nothing on the suburban schools that she could have easily have gone to, had I wanted her to. Urban Suburban school programs are available in all big cities, and most small cities like my own.

I watched some of the people being interviewed in Ms. Hudson’s neighborhood. Heartbroken neighbors who talked about their love for the little boy, and how he used to ride his bike with their own little ones, and how much of a happy child he was.

Sounds to me like tragedy visited a very close knit community, and I see no reason why the child can’t be successfully raised in the neighborhood he grew up in.

I love my daughter very much, but we do not live in fear of our neighbors, we stay out of trouble, and we are happy in our inner city neighborhood.

Some people don’t agree, and that is fine, but I admit I kind of see them as hipocrites, which is one of the few characteristics in a human being that I actually despise as a tremendous moral failing.

If you know you pack the kiddies up in your automobiles every single day, knowing full well that death by car is much more common than death by walking, then please cut the crap with the ‘better neighborhood’ stuff. If you know you allow them to participate in down hill skiing, roller blading, dirt biking, surfing, and all other kinds of activities that could somehow harm them in some horrible way should the unthinkable happen, then please don’t judge those that think being raised in the rich culture and tradition of their family going back several generations sometimes is an ok thing to do, despite the unlikely risk that an innocent child might catch a bullet from a gangster’s gun.

I don’t run. Period. In my city, there are suburbs that have been ‘ran to’ to get away from the city. I don’t have to tell you what happens. The ‘better’ suburban neighborhood is soon crime ridden and the runners are left to run again. That is crazy.

If the boy is returned to his neighborhood to be raised by a loving family member, that is their business. I cringe at the idea that one would think they know of a place that the boy will be better off than with loving family members that are astonished and heartbroken over the tragedy that befell the boy.

23

I am assuming that with the other family members dead, he’d be alone in the house?
From your post, I take the nephew has been found? :confused:

(I haven’t been following closely-sorry). I am not blaming the neighborhood; I am just upset that he had to witness such violence and that such a thing happened at all.

24

Whoa! Ok. Ok. I was defensive as hell. Sorry. I thought you meant, moved from the neighborhood. I am overly defensive on these kinds of topics. I’m working on it though. Promise.

25

No, he hasn’t been found, unfortunately.

Nzinga, you and the people who you say “ran” have weighed the pros and cons of living in the inner city vs. the suburbs, and sending your kids to the regular city school vs. the “good for the city” school vs. getting bussed out to Pittsford or walking vs. riding in a car etc. Do you really think it’s fair to call people hypocrites because their risk/reward scale is not the same as yours? There have to be situations or places that you don’t want your daughter to be in, so how is that any different?

26

Parental pride and stubbornness can be strong. Oprah Winfrey could easily buy her father his own county somewhere, yet as of a few years ago he was still living in the same modest house she grew up in and cutting hair in the same little cinder block barbershop in Mississippi he earned his money from when she was a kid. Patrick Duffy was one of the highest paid stars on TV when his parents were murdered in the mom and pop bar they ran, and JK Rowling’s father auctioned off his own inscribed first edition of HARRY POTTER AND THE PHILOSOPHER’S STONE rather than ask his daughter for money that she could afford better than almost anyone in the UK. And Winfrey, Duffy and Rowling all earned incomparably more than Hudson; they’d have never felt the pinch. (My sister used to buy her gas from singer Jimmy Buffett’s sister, whose brother had given her a fortune- she used part of it to fix up her gas station and build a restaurant- but she still worked the counter in her gas station at the time.)

In addition to her mom not wanting to move (I’m a lot younger than her mom but don’t know that I’d want to take a major handout like that from a relative), Hudson’s probably not that wealthy. She’s only been a star (such as it is) for 2 years, probably hasn’t realized that much from her album yet (the music business is notorious for artists selling millions of CDs before they really make any money), as a newcomer she wouldn’t have earned Demi Moore/Nicole Kidman bucks for Dreamgirls and probably was paid even less for Sex in the City and Winged Creatures (contracted before she won the Oscar). From her income she has to pay taxes, agents, publicists, and others, so it’s very doubtful she’d have tons of cash to spare.

As an actress/singer the future is extremely uncertain- no shortage of one hit wonders in film or music- so she’d probably want to pay cash for any place she bought her mother. Assuming a decent house in Chicago’s suburbs costs $600,000 (which I’ve no idea), she could probably afford a hefty downpayment but it’s doubtful she has enough banked to comfortably pay that outright, and to only put half down or so risks the family being foreclosed on if her career tanks or something happens to her and they can’t pay the mortgage. Plus, her mother- if she’s like most matriarchs- probably knew roughly how much Jennifer had and probably knew she couldn’t afford to do so, which was probably why she wouldn’t leave. So, I can’t find it to judge her at all.

My own mother had two children who were millionaires. I have no doubt at all she’d have gotten a job at White Castle before asking either of them for a penny if she’d needed money. It was a major shock to my sister when, just before she died, my mother told her she’d like a riverboat cruise (about $1200) because it was the first expensive thing she ever asked her for.

27

I agree, you sound overly sensitive, but I get your point and hell, I’d even stand up to anyone that told you what to do.

All I’m offering is my opinion on what I think is the right thing to do, under these exact circumstances. Every time the news here shows another teen, or younger, under a white sheet, they show the whole neighborhood grieving just like they showed the Hudson’s neighbors. You can’t help but be touched. I think the hypocrisy working here is that this is national news. Of course, it is because of the victims, I get that too.

It reminds me of when Michael Jordan’s dad was killed. A story that happens all too often, but was national headline news because of who the victim was. These domestic shootings - which yes can happen anywhere, are more likely the more you factor in: easy access to handguns, and someone with a proven tendency to violent crime.

I’m going to speculate for a minute. I could be dead wrong, but my prediction is that when this all boils down - there’s going to be a lot more here than just an angry family member going off. In that neighborhood there are too many drugs, too many gangs, too many guns for a tragedy like this to not have a likelihood of being attached to one of those things.

The inner city neighborhood you live in might be nice. I’m speaking in specifics - not gemeralizations. THAT neighborhood - Englewood - is a battle ground. Did anyone read the part where the neighbors heard gunshots but didn’t think anything of it because they hear that all the time?

As I said, I worked on the sough side for a few years. After that I worked in the far south suburbs, where some of the people fleeing moved to. I know the people that live in the south side, and the ones that left and why. 98% of the people on the south side are wonderful people. My bus drivers wouldn’t let me go get lunch every so often. One day I asked why some days and not others. I was just told ‘boss, some days a fella like you ought not to be out at Harold’s, there’s some tension today.’

For the record, I never said anyone should separate him from his family. Move with his family. Someone in that family can now support a better lifestyle, and I know she’s offered, and they said no. I have already said I can understand that - my entire point is that I don’t agree that’s the best decision for that child, or any child. Many young people leave Englewood, become successful and left. Many of them left in the way I mentioned - they stayed in the city, on the south side and remain active in the community they love. Staying in Englewood is often not an option. It has become a termendously depressed neighborhood - losing housing and jobs.

A bit disingenuous I think. Comparing the danger of sports and games to those of drugs and guns is a little of a stretch. Guns are made to kill, surfboards aren’t.

Maybe it’s different by you, but enough innocent children have been killed in Chicago doing just that, that sadly it’s not all that unlikely anymore.

Cite

Another

Oh, one more

I think we essentially both agree that we want the best for a child, that child, any child. We just disagree about what we think determines “best”. Speaking specifically about this case, knowing that area the way I do, makes me feel differently.

28

The Tribune is just now reporting that the body of a young black male was found on the west side, in the back of the missing Chevy Suburban.

I have no words for this anymore.

29

I heard that, too. Poor mite-whoever he is. :frowning:

Why do people suck?

30

Ok.

I still have some words. I am no more out of words for hearing about a celebrity death as I am for the many deaths that I know happen to children every day.

I don’t find my argument disengenuous at all.

As a matter of fact, I find your arugument to be crooked.

“Gangster’s guns” are rarely, almost never, *intended *for innocent children. So it while it makes good t.v., it is silly to say, “Guns are made to kill, surfboards aren’t.”

We know that guns are made to kill. However, that has nothing to do with a family’s desire to keep their home in the community they grew up in.

I am actually amazed that you even tried that argument. Seriously.

People determine the risks they are willing for a child to take based on whether or not they find the risk worth it.

Some parents don’t allow their children to participate in ‘dangerous’ sports.
Some parents do, because they don’t find the risk overpowers their desire to give their child those kinds of experiences in life.

Most parents have decided that the risk of a car accident is worth it, because they want to live a mobile lifestyle.

Some parents have decided that the risk of being shot by a gangster’s gun is worth bringing their children up in a community that they love and are connected to. The truth is, it is rare for an innocent child to get shot. Accept it. The parents that choose to live in the inner city have as much right to their choices as a parent that likes to take their child hunting.

As for people that ‘hear shots and are so used to shots that they think nothing of it’, I have always wondered about those quotes. I don’t know anyone that ever says this sillyness, and I have lived in a pretty crime ridden city my entire life.

I appreciate your links, but I didn’t need them. I know that people die every day from gun violence. My daughter knows not to fight over a silly bicycle with gang affiliated youth. She stays out of trouble, just like I have done my whole life, and somehow, me and all of my family and close friends have avoided getting shot. Now I am not blaming the victim in your last link. I am only stating that it is not the same thing as ‘not being able to sit on the front porch’, when you are out fighting with gun carrying thugs.

And thanks for repeating that I am over sensitive on this topic. Perhaps everyone didn’t catch it when I stated it myself, just two posts ago.

31

I don’t think it is hypocritical to choose to leave the neighborhood. I used the word hypocrite to describe those that would judge some for staying in the neighborhood when they have no problem with subjecting their own kids to all kinds of risks for less reason than family ties and roots. And I know I had spelled hypocrite wrong. Sorry.

32

I don’t actually think you are being over sensitive. But I do think you’re talking to people without deep roots in their communities. My grandma has deep roots - she’s lived in the same home for 50 years, with many of the same neighbors who all raised their kids together. She knows who’s on the police force, who remodeled their kitchen last year and who’s got what dogs and cats and kids and cars. I can only imagine how much deeper those roots go when, like in the Hudson family, you have multiple generations growing up in the same house in the same neighborhood with the same neighbors.

When a house is just a house and most of your social connections are in your home or via phone or email, picking up and moving when things get scary is easy. Heck, we’re considering a cross country move just for a job. And I’ll miss my mom (who I see about once a month) and my grandma (who I see about thrice a year), and the handful of friends (who I see about once a month), but y’all are coming with me! If my primary social connections were with people in my building and my block and the block one over, it’d be a whole hell of a lot harder to leave them behind. But as it is, I couldn’t name you everyone who lives in my six-flat, nevermind the whole block. Those aren’t deep roots. And I suspect that some or all of the rest of the posters who think you’re overreacting don’t have deep roots, either.

33

it was announced (msnbc) that ms hudson identified her nephew. he
is the child found in the car.

i can not imagine what she and her sister are going through. a horrible, horrible tragic out come.

34

A few years ago, the grandmother of a friend of mine was attacked and beaten very badly in her home. I mean VERY badly: we’re talking bones broken in the face. My friend and I were in our mid-thirties, so his grandmother must have been in her late 80s at least. Anyway, she had previously refused to move out of her house, and after the attack still refused. My friend and his wife considered their options, and after a few days my friend asked me if I’d help him kidnap Grandma. Which we did. While grandma was in the hospital we moved everything out of her house, and when she was reelased, we drove her from Texas to Memphis.

But we were only prompted to do so because of the bad attack she survived. I can easily Ms. Hudson would have been able to move her mother until something awful happened. Unfortunately it did, only her mother did not survive it.

35

:eek: That’s a freakin’ felony! That can get you the death penalty! My god I can’t believe you’d admit to a crime on a public message board! WHAT THE FUCK??

But of course, because it’s only grandma, it’s ok, and the police won’t get involved, right? It’s what’s best for her, right? You and your friend and his wife know better than she does what she needs to do, right?

36

All I can say is, you didn’t see the neighborhood. They should have done it a long time ere that. Besides, Grandma decided she was okay with it by the time we arrived; she had protested so much because she hadn’t wished to be a burden, but frankly was freaking terrified by the neighborhood at that point.

37

Exactly. You don’t need to live in the ghetto to murder your ex and whoever she’s with. This argument would have held more water had it been a gang-related drive by or a drug deal gone wrong.

38

Yeah, what else was she going to do? She’d been kidnapped (grandmanapped) and was held captive. You still committed a felony, even if she was ok with it after the fact.

39

That poor, poor boy. I find myself hoping that he was killed right away. Please don’t let him have spent the weekend in sheer terror. I understand they have arrested the estranged step-father, so the mother faces that guilt on top of her grief. What the hell is wrong with people who do this shit? (I mean the killer–if it is the stepfather or the person it turns out to be).
Unimaginable grief for the Hudson family. :frowning:
Equipoise: (and sorry for the sidetrack)
Grandmas are moved all the time due to proximity of family, encroaching but denied dementia and other reasons. I think Skald was using “kidnap” loosely. My parents moved my dad’s folks from DC to Memphis due to ill health: Parkinson’s (grandpa) and colon CA (grandma). The myth was kept that at some point they would return to DC. They both died within a year of the move, both close to 90. There comes a time when most folks cannot manage on their own. Would my grandparents have been happier in DC? Not likely–most of their peers were gone; they had no car and their house had become a hazard (some small scale hoarding going on). Would it have been morally better for us to have gotten the news that they had burned in their beds or been killed by an intruder? No. Loss of independence can be hard, but necessary.

ETA: none of this applies to the Hudson’s who sound like they had family and connections in their neighborhood, plus the grandma was not that old to begin with…

40

eleanorigby, I thought of that, but Skald gave no indication that the grandma had dementia or Alzheimers or any loss of mental processes at all. It all turned out ok in the end, but that doesn’t change the fact that it WAS kidnapping. It was moving an adult with all their faculties intact across state lines against their will.