I know most of us have been a bit preoccupied by domestic events of the last few days (Yay Democrats!) but there’s been a bit of a to-do going on in Israel. What’s interesting is that I haven’t seen word one in the MSM about it. No cites that aren’t either Jewish-interest or gay-interest sources on Google News at all.
You know, you might think that being an oppressed minority will make one more aware of and sympathetic to the plights of other oppressed minorities. The reality really depresses me. Ultra-orthodox Jews, Christian African-Americans, Catholic Africans (period)…all of them with a history of centuries of oppression and marginalization and outright slavery. And every single group is loudly vocal about how much gays don’t deserve the rights they themselves have finally achieved.
We’re talking at least THREE DAYS of riots in Israel over a freaking Pride Parade! It’s not like the parade was going to end in a giant gay orgy at the Wailing Wall or the Dome of the Rock, either. If Jerusalem is so goddamn sacred, maybe it should be evacuated and populated only by a clerical class. If you’re not an imam, a rabbi, or a priest, you can’t enter the gates. But that’s obviously not the case. People live in Jerusalem. They work in Jerusalem. They fuck in Jerusalem, gay and straight.
How long before all of the fucking ultra-conservatives die off? I’m tired of living in a world where industrialized nations are still stuck in the 18th century…
There’s an anti semen nite joke in there but damn if I’m gonna make it now.
I’m with ya, jayjay. I’ve always been a very strong backer of the Israeli state but dang if I can make head nor tails of why they do to the Palestinians, and per the OP apparently others as well, exactly what was done wrong to them.
You’d think, given their experiences, they be the very models of tolerance.
Well, in this case, it’s not the Israeli state…it’s the Haredim, and more specifically, that segment of the Haredim who decide to be violent against those people or groups they consider to be immoral. And unfortunately, the Haredim are very strong in Jeruslaem. If the parade were happening in Tel Aviv or Haifa or someplace, there wouldn’t be a problem (and there’s almost never any controversy over the gay pride parades in Tel Aviv or Haifa).
What exactly does the Israeli state have to do with this situation? Are you of the opinion that this is an example of the “Israeli State” oppressing gays?
I did not get that impression at all - in fact, gay rights are I believe well respected by the Israeli government. Not by fundies of all stripes who happen to live in Jerusalem, though.
Some of us Jews wonder the exact same thing… Unfortunately, Judaism, like every other group of humans, has its share of bigots and assholes. Like all religions, we’ve unfortunately got our share of intolerant fundies, too.
Excuse me, that was simply careless wording on my part in using “state”. I puzzled that anyone sharing in the history could burden others with the like, nothing more.
I’m with you here; this confuses the hell out of me. Right now in my office I know of a black guy who hates gays, a gay guy who hates Mexicans, a Mexican who hates Native Americans, and 2 Christians who hate anyone who is at all happy. Mind you, these are just the people that I know of who are brash enough to talk openly about their bigotry at work.
Apparently an Israeli billionaire has offered to pay the gay community to move the parade to another city.
But the offer was refused. That really flies in the face of some anti-semitic stereotypes, doesn’t it?
I think they should have taken the offer. Heck, all of Israel isn’t much bigger than a good-sized farm; how far away would this ‘other city’ have been – 30 minutes drive?
It’s a holy city for gay Muslims and Jews as well.
It’s really depressing that the one thing all three of the great Abrahamic religions can agree on is to hate on homosexuals.*
*I know that’s a gross generalization but that’s who seems to have the power in these religions
You’re forgetting each other, infidels, other religions people; hell, most fundamentalists (of any of the big 3) seem to hate anyone that hasn’t eaten dinner at their house.
I love that tolerance goes in only one direction - the old must give way to the new.
But somehow, it’s acceptable for a group that knows their sexuality is, and has been for thousands of years, considered abominable to a certain religion to make a point of proudly parading it in front of that religion’s most fundamentalist adherents? Is that not also intolerant?
I’m not condoning the violence. But respect is a two-way street. Orthodox Jews in other cities don’t bat an eye at Gay Pride Parades; but it’s a special Chutzpah of the local gay-rights crowd to feel that they need to have one in Jerusalem, of all cities, that passes through Meah Shearim, of all neighborhoods.
Chaim, I respect you immensely, but I’m really, really tired of being told that we need to close our eyes to homophobia when it derives from someone’s religious beliefs. It’s homophobia. Period. I don’t care whether you got it from YVHV, Jehovah, Jesus, Allah, Vishnu, Thor or the Great Ghu. It’s homophobia, just as racism is racism no matter where it comes from and misogyny is misogyny no matter where it comes from.
I’m tired of being in the position of being forced by the popularity of an idea to set aside my humanity and worth so as to be required to respect that idea when it works to my detriment.
I generally have no opinions whatsoever on people’s private religious beliefs. That’s a basic human right, to have those. But I’m tired of being told that I’m worth less than someone’s private religious beliefs. I’m tired of grown men acting like children because some ancient foofaraw told them that this particular city is more sacred than downtown Burbank, California.
Israel is, I realize, different than the US when it comes to the position that religion is supposed to hold vis a vis government. But that doesn’t make it right.
Wonderful. So, tolerance is only reserved for beliefs that are in line with one’s own.
You know, these Haredim don’t go out of their way to look for trouble. They don’t try to push “Intelligent Design” textbooks on the Israeli public school system, they don’t put up big “Ten Commandments” tablets in courthouses. They try to live mostly in isolated communities where they can raise their families with as little non-religious influence touching them. But every so often, some non-religious folk get this bug up their butt that they need to invade these enclaves with blatant shows of non-religiosity, and somehow, the problem lies with these traditional folk who are otherwise content to live and let live.
There’s more respect for the Amish in the hyper-techno-connected United States than for Jews observing the Torah in the city declared holy by the Torah. The Haredim certainly have their prejudices, but to push those in their face is a form of intolerance just the same.
How are religious folks harmed by somebody else having a parade?
There are religious groups who literally think that Jews are devils. Would that mean that it would be “intolerant” for Jews to walk past them wearing black hats and rekeleth and sidelocks?
Unfortunately, Judaism, like every other group of humans, has its share of bigots and assholes. Like all religions, we’ve unfortunately got our share of intolerant fundies, too.