I saw this in an e-mail recently; thought it was appropriate:
“Oh, your life sucks? There’s a support group for that; it’s called everybody – they meet at the bar.”
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Velma *
**
My point wasn’t that it is an insult, rather that gobear said “she” and “her” hoping to get Joe_Cool’s dander up about it. Many non-fundie types think that all fundies get a stick in their bum over that, so I suspect that it was gobear’s intention to do just that. Since the traditional usage is male, and the more theologically accurate usage would be gender neutral “it”, I can think of little other reason that someone would go out of their way to use “she”, since it’s no more accurate than “he.”
In short, some people refer to god as “she” in conversation just to get someone riled up, like pro-choicers might call the opposition anti-choice, or pro-lifers might call their opposition anti-life or pro-abortion. It’s an intentional usage of an uncommon turn of phrase that, regardless of merit, is used only to piss off your opponent because you perceive that person to be sensitive over that usage. And I’ve seen that done often enough with “she” for god that I no longer consider that a very insightful or witty remark.
It’s a frickin’ metaphor. Get over it. Murder is worse than rape, and plenty of people use murder in analogies and figures of speech. The character Merlin in Excalibur said “When you lie, you murder some part of the world.” You want to post a pit thread on him, too?
When it comes down to it, rape is a violent exploitation of another human being. Considering the sexual overtones of such a metaphor, I would probably say it’s in bad taste. Still, it’s not as if he called you actual physical rapists.
That one is pretty good too. My other favorite is a lyric from the song “Gotta Kill Captain Stupid” by Suicidal Tendencies:
Incidentally, are you going to be at the Jersey dopefest next weekend? It’d be good to see you there.
Joe, I wish you all the happiness that marriage to Jersey_Diamond can possibly provide to you. If I needed proof that people get what they deserve, that union is enough to do it. You two really do deserve each other.
Now say something self-righteous, you indignant prig.
Actually, I’ve been reading a book on pre-Christian Europe and the discovery of female ifols like the Willendorf Venus. The “She” seems natural, since God must share the nature of half the human race. Next time, ask instead of theorizing.
What self-serving bullshit. I get into disagreements with people over politics, art, and which Pink Floyd song is best. If everybody agreed with everybody else, this board would cease to exist.
and especially given the way he spews personal insults at my fiancee in a pathetic attempt to hurt me, I wonder whether I’d have the strength to treat him with the respect I would have previously.
This from somebody who makes blanket, bigoted statements about whole ethnic groups. :rolleyes:
What sob story? You keep saying that. My beef with fundies is the documented efforts of your co-religionists to enact antigay legislation. That’s not a sob story–it’s the simple truth.
You said it, and I responded. When I find it, you will apologize.
In any event, you have neatly sidestepped the OP, in which you were busted for your bigoted comments in GD and your casual use of rape as a metaphor. Are you going to acknowledge and apologize? Or will you pretend you’re not an anti-Palestinian bigot?
Fair enough, Joe. However, I really think you need to reconsider your stance on Chick tracts-at least, in as far as you don’t really seem to have a problem with them. I find them absolutely hysterical, (they are so MST3Kish!) but when people take them seriously, they are listening to horrible lies.
Fair enough, Joe. However, I really think you need to reconsider your stance on Chick tracts-at least, in as far as you don’t really seem to have a problem with them. I find them absolutely hysterical, (they are so MST3Kish!) but when people take them seriously, they are listening to horrible lies.
Joe, that exchange did take place. I read it, I know many others here must have read it.
It was in the GD thread entitled “What will it take for homosexuals to gain acceptance.” You know damn well what you said, and it is truly pathetic that you are trying to weasel out of it because it was deleted when the board crashed.
I can not be the only one who remembers this, everyone who read that shit needs to let Joe know that he can’t get away with his lies.
I’m sure I will. I’ll just wait right here until you find it, shall I?
Yes I am anti-Palestinian. Have I ever denied it, or why do you act like you’ve caught me in a trap? That is my position. I pity the Palestinian people for the way that they have been used as propaganda and leverage by their Arab “brothers” and their leaders against Israel, but I don’t see why they should be handed Jerusalem or anything at all, as long as they keep up their attacks. Additionally, to my knowledge, there are a number of people of Palestinian descent who live and work happily in Israel, and even who participate in the government. There is no reason why the rest of them could not have done so as well, except that they were led by their fellow Arabs and people like Arafat to fight for more, with the promise of Israel’s territory after their downfall dangled in front of them like a carrot in front of a horse. If they want something, they can peacefully bargain for it or else purchase it, the same as anybody else. And I don’t feel that they are entitled
But I am not a bigot. Why is it so hard to understand that it is possible to have opinions of a group without judging the individuals in that group? I don’t like the Dallas Cowboys. I enjoy it when they lose. I no longer follow them, but the last time I did, I noticed that they, as a group, acted like a bunch of criminals and ill-behaved jerks. Now, do I know any Dallas Cowboys? Have I met them, had dinner with them, etc? Of course not. But that doesn’t change the fact that the silver and blue uniforms and the star on the helmet effectively represent the individuals who wear them, and vice versa. Likewise, the encounters I have had and the news I have seen about Palestinians as a group (not having met an individual) have all been negative. The group and those who speak for it behave badly and do not represent themselves well.
The day I meet a Palestinian individual in a personal setting, I will treat him or her the same as any other person I might meet and will judge him or her as an individual, the same as with any other person. I am not Archie Bunker, getting out a plate of fried chicken because I hear they like to snack on it, and I would be no more or less happy to make the acquaintance or friendship of a Palestinian than I would any other individual. But I will not support the Palestinian People, based on their actions against Israel, and I will not spend my day arguing whether or not I’m a bigot - this is the last I will say on the matter. If it’s not sufficient to convince you, gobear, I really don’t care. The only difference between you and me on this issue is that I’m man enough to publicly disclose and acknowledge my personal bias in the debate. You are not. You claim to have no bias, which is a load of manure. No matter how enlightened you claim to be, all people have bias. Some of us face and admit our bias, then try to overcome it, and others, like you, deny it exists and then indulge it with these hateful diatribes in the pit.
And to Collounsbury, who said that Palestinians are friendly to strangers and would not dream of treating one the way I “claim” to have been treated -
Do you deny that you are you making a sweeping statement about an entire people without regard to individual variation, the same as I did? All Palestinians are hospitable? Are the Israelis killed in shopping mall bombs not strangers?
Disgusting hypocrite.
You, sir, are the racist here. You obviously have no problem with the idea that all members of a group have some social trait or other based on nothing more than what group they are a part of. You seem to think it’s ok to say “all X are good,” when in fact that is no more or less racist than “All X are bad” (which, in fact, I did not say).
Well, Mr. Visible, it’s like they say, there must be someone for everyone.
Say, have you met Gobear?
You two could join up and start the gay crusade! The Gay Knights of the Templar! Kneel and be served, knave!
Joe, I don’t know. I’ll be getting back from Canada around then. E-mail me and we’ll see if I can swing a ride with somebody – It’s further than I’ve been in Jersey. Scary stuff.
Oh, and Gobear? Nice job making me laugh as always:
Could you be a bigger ass? Just wondering.
Fundies aren’t san ethnic group, Ace, they are people of the same ideological bent, self-identifying by their shared beleifs.
Learn to make a proper analogy, wouldja?
Grendel72, thanks. Joe has to learn to stop lying when he gets called on what he says. I knew I hadn’t hallucinated that exchange.
Joe, your post deserves a proper response (and I promise to keep my language G rated. Well, PG-13, anyway). More to come.
I see. So stereotypes apply, then? :rolleyes:
I’m sure many have said this to you before: What a truly beautiful person you are, Gobear. Hope you find a porter for all that psychic baggage.
No, see my previous response. Fundies are self-organized on the basis of sharing common beliefs, which makes an analogy with racial prejudice ridiculous. That you can’t (or won’t) see this speaks volumes about your intellect.
What baggage? I’m calling Joe on his statements. That you are siding with him and supporting his bigotry says what a beautiful person YOU are.
It’s funny…I didn’t remember ever posting in that thread. So I did a search on my username, in all forums, over the last year, and guess what I found!
I didn’t post in that thread.
And I’ve never said anything like that. So while I don’t doubt that you may have had that exchange, I’m telling you that you didn’t have it with me.
Get over it.
Lacking the smoking gun, I’m going to withdraw the charge. Now back to the OP and your response
Are there Israeli Arabs? Sure. Do they live happily?
According to http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/sikkuy2000.html"] Sikkuy a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization in Israel, there is widespread discrimination against Israel’s Arab citizens.
Bear in mind the Palestinians were dispossessed of their lands in 1948, so they might just feel “entitled” to compensation for the land they lost.
You comparison between the Dallas Cowboys and the Palestinians is just…words fail me. If you do not see that racial bigotry is not the same as disapproving of the actions of football players (For one thing, you’re dealing with one hell of a disparity in population sampling), then no arguments put forth here are going to do much good.
See, it’s NOT the Palestinian people, it’s suicide bombers and extremeist groups in their midst who are responsible for the appalling violence in Israel. (I don’t support them either, nbeing bvery pro-Israel, but I’m not blind to the facts.)
[quote]
he only difference between you and me on this issue is that I’m man enough to publicly disclose and acknowledge my personal bias in the debate.
[quote]
So you admit you’re a bigot, good. Admitting you have a problem is the first step toward healing.
Uh, calling you out in the Pit is not “bias”. I have biases like anybody else, but I don’t think I have an anti-Joe_Cool bias. I admit being biased against bigoted knuckleheads–there I admit you might be vulnerable.
There is no reason why the rest of them could not have done so as well, except that they were led by their fellow Arabs and people like Arafat to fight for more, with the promise of Israel’s territory after their downfall dangled in front of them like a carrot in front of a horse.
FTR, perhaps that was Uigi? I too, don’t remember Joe saying anything like that in the thread.
As for your “points” raised, I don’t support bigotry, Gobear.
Which is why I don’t support you.
I’ve stayed the heck away from this thread until now, and the only reason I’m posting now is that, I too, remeber these comments from Joe_Cool.
I closed the thread because my blood pressure was rising, and I just don’t need that.
Ah, I’m devastated by Ace’s dazzling repartee. What’s next, the “I’m rubber, you’re glue” manueuver?
Busting on **
Joe_Cool** isn’t bigotry. Unless you’re watching Futurama.
No. I do not compare disapproval of football players to racial bigotry. I use one group to illustrate that groups are judged by their representation without knowledge of individuals. You have a keen knack for finding exactly the wrong point in a metaphor. It’s too consistent for it to be accidental, and you don’t appear to be quite that stupid. So I assume it’s intentional.
And I do not admit to being a bigot, as I am not. I admit to judging a group of people by their representatives. Besides, where are the anti-terrorist demonstrations in Palestine? I often see on the news and hear about rallies demonstrating against Israel, supporting this or that terrorist group, and celebrating the men and women who kill themselves in explosions with the goal of taking some Israeli citizens with them. But I have yet to hear of the brave, honest, honorable, and hospitable Palestinian people offering any denunciation of the terrorists. Where are they, and why do they not speak out in defense of the Israeli citizens that their countrymen slaughter regularly? If they do not, then they declare themselves guilty by their silence and complacence. On the whole, the Palestinians support and celebrate the violence.
If I am wrong about the lack of outcry in Palestine and in the Palestinian community, then I will apologize publicly. But I won’t hold my breath.
Oh, gobear, if you have a moment, there is one more little thing I’d like to discuss with you…
Oh, no. You don’t get off that easy. I want an apology, pal. You made a totally unfounded and false accusation, argued it vehemently and insulted me when I denied it, and when finally forced to acknowledge that you pulled it out of your posterior, the best you can say is that you’ll withdraw the charge? I don’t think so.
And this from the man who wrote
You are simply unbelievable.
This is not even an isolated incident. Your favorite debate tactic (maybe Ace0Spades can add this into his algorithm) seems to consist of [list=a][]make up a lie. []attribute lie to person I don’t like, demand apology. []entire discussion gets sidetracked into victim having to defend or refute statements that he did not ever make. []repeat as needed to demonize whoever is on my hit list today[/list=a]Since I’m sure you’re going to ask for an example, I’ll give you another one from THIS VERY THREAD! You claimed that Jerseydiamond and I are the enemies of science and insist that there was a literal six-day creation six thousand years ago. Neither of us has ever said that (though as I said before, I’m open to the possibility but don’t think there’s sufficient evidence to support any scientific description of the origins of the universe). Vanilla has, however. I linked to it yesterday, and she confirmed it. Yet I don’t see you calling her out for it. You’re really getting annoying, and your arguments are getting stale. Please, think of something new to crusade about. I’m bored with the gay inquisition, starring gobear’s martyr complex (coming soon to a theater near you).