Ladies. Your man wants to go to a Bachelor Party...

In My Humble Opinion
81

Actually, the weekend before last (Memorial Day), the gentleman I’m seeing and I had the opportunity to go to a Bachelor Party Dinner and assorted afters. Since I was full of a raging head cold (I had a fever of 99.5 when we got home), I could only make dinner. Not only did I not have a problem with the gentleman going to the afters without me, I checked with other friends at the dinner to see if they could give me a lift home. The gentleman decided not to go.

Many years ago, I was engaged to a different gentleman who was to be best man at his best friend’s wedding. The night before the wedding, I told my fiance “Do whatever you want. I’m going off to the Hawaii State Farm Fair.” He turned up at my place that night and told me that he’d met his buddy and they’d come to the conclusion that they were both happy with the women in their lives and saw no need to look at naked women since they had naked women of their own! :smiley: Instead of going to a strip club, they went to see Terminator II and tried to look me up at the farm fair.

One more example. I mentioned to my mother that I had the opportunity to go to a strip bar, and she told me she’d actually been to a few and it was interesting. My father has had Playboy calendars on his bedroom wall for as long as I can remember and if he ever doesn’t look at a pretty girl, forget the doctor; I’ll be calling the undertaker! :wink: He flirts outrageously with waitresses and has been known to kid ones he knows well and who like him about being undersexed. My parents have been married for 43 years. I admit Mum did ask Dad what he’d do if one of these waitresses took him up on it; I gather his reaction was rather like one of a dog who’d actually caught a car – “Now I’ve got it, what do I do with it?!” :eek:

I’m old-fashioned. I believe in monogamy and disagree with casual sex. I also believe the men I’ve loved have been intelligent, reasonable, honorable adults. The Bachelor Parties they’ve had the chance to go to have been as much a chance to celebrate a friend’s wedding the way it’s currently done as a chance to look at naked or mostly naked women. If they want to look at naked or mostly naked women, they don’t have to go to a strip club; there are magazines full of the things, beaches and pools, and, for that matter, I’ve been known to hang out in a hot tub full of naked men and women. Knowing these men as I have (including my father, come to think of it), I also know that a naked body alone won’t be enough for them. Are they unusual? Of course! I met the gentleman I’m seeing in Mensa; he’s unusual by definition! Are they horn dogs? I’m going to plead the fifth, but I will point out that I have a particularly strong sex drive, despite being female. When I was in my 20s and still a virgin, there were nights when I was almost overwhelmingly tempted to go and find the first available man and find out what I’d been missing. I didn’t because it wouldn’t have been right. If I know, like, trust, and respect a man enough to have sex with him, I also trust him to do what’s right.

In other words, yes, I’d trust any gentleman I’m in a relationship to go to a Bachelor Party. If I didn’t, I’d end the relationship. For those who still insist on the “Men are incorrigible horn dogs” model, I’ll throw out one simple cost/benefit scenario. I don’t tolerate cheating. If a man is willing to give up frequent, regular, good sex with me for a one-shot with a stranger, then, frankly, he’s too stupid for me to put up with. I mean, hasn’t he heard the story of the goose that laid the golden eggs? Getting laid once vs. getting laid regularly: which would you choose?

CJ

82

Good post, but it ain’t that simple. Lots of guys will try to get away with both. The thrill of the cheat and the thought of having two women (you and the cheat) is, for some men, too much to turn down.
I’ve agreed with a lot of what Aeschines and IndyGirl have said. I’m a guy, I’ve got lots of guy friends and when we we’re all younger and going through the initial marriage stage (where lots of us were in our early twenties and getting married for the first time :smiley: ) there were regular bachelor parties and regular cheating going on. I know of one friend who got some on his bachelor party night. And another who probably crossed the line but didn’t actually have sex (intercourse, anyway). Ladies, guys can be dogs. They can hide it from you. They know what you like and don’t like and the natural thing to do is to let you (mostly) see the side of them that they know you want to see.
The good thing is, is that many of the guys I know now that were wild when they were younger seemed to have slowed waaaayyy down now. The occassional party here and there, but no strippers, no cheating.
I personally could care less if I ever went to another strip club again in my life. I don’t really like them, and the way that the strippers flaunt their stuff. It’s degrading to the women and the men that attend. Actually, it’s always been my contention that you could cheat much easier at a regular bar or nightclub than you could in a strip club.
I’ve seen way more guys pick up a drunk girl at a bar for a quick one than at a strip club.
I think that men and women need to be able to trust their SO’s in any situation. But that doesn’t mean that every guy or girl can be trusted. It means that you need to find that right person. It also means that when you have someone that trusts you, you need to trust yourself. Logically speaking, if you have an SO that doesn’t trust you then you aren’t loosing all that much when you cheat/or get caught. Verses someone who does trust you, who will be devestated when/if you do cheat.
If your SO gives you a long leash, trustwise, the urge to break that trust and the penalties for breaking said trust are way higher than someone who has you on a short leash already. You have less to loose.
With that in mind, I have my SO on a long leash, because I can trust her and she has me on a long leash because she can trust me. But I understand what the consequences will be for breaking her trust, and she likewise. Situations like this are ideal. Just because I know the leash is long does not mean I’m always pulling on it, it just means that I know it’s length and I respect it. There is always slack in it.

83

I guess there’s a first time for everything… I agree with everything you just said. I’ve been to plenty of Bachelor parties and out of all the parties I’ve gone to it was only at a party where the SO’s were welcome that any cheating occurred. And that turned into a real mess that I was one of people suspected of being with a woman who apparently got a little overheated and messed around with 4 or 5 of the guys there.

84

I see nothing “super-short” about that leash. I see no indication that his wife is keeping him on an excessively restrictive leash.

It seems to me that saying “Don’t party around with strippers” is by no means an unreasonable restriction. It doesn’t take a short leash to insist on that limitation.

And YES, couples do impose restrictions on each other. Don’t want your husband to have sex with strangers? Don’t want him to come home drunk every night? Then you are telling him what he can or can’t do. I think the people who say, “I would never tell my spouse what to do!” aren’t being realistic here. In any harmonious relationship, a measure of restriction is necessary.

85

This is true. Stonebow is absolutely forbidden to purchase any more Legos or bungee cords. :smiley:

86

Bullshit. I married him because these are among the restrictions he places on himself.

87

Amen to all that. I’m a horny toad. I happily regard myself as big a pervert as the next man, and I astound even myself sometimes with my collection of sexual fetishes. But for all the crap jokes about men having our brains in our dicks and being unable to help ourselves its just that, crap. Any man who tells a woman that he just couldnt control himself is spinning a line to justify his behaviour. We have brains, and we have sex because we want to and choose to, not because we are incapable of ‘control’. That’s all it comes down to, anything else is just self-justifying bullshit because we dont want to say “because I wanted to”.

Unlike Aeschines I’ve been to bachelor parties and strip clubs and I will say that his ‘default assumption’ that the men there are ‘boning pros’ is just his cartoon fantasy of how other men behave. Some men will have sex if they can, at opportunities like this or elsewhere, and yes this means that some trusting women are deluding themselves. But most men dont copulate with random strangers at public functions! Some guys are faithful. Some guys would but dont want to be found out. Some guys would but wouldnt want to hurt their partner. Some guys are cheap bastards and wouldnt spend the money. Some guys would rather cut off their own head then have sex with a prostitute (ie me). And a not inconsiderable number of guys are just shy with women and wouldnt be comfortable with it.

88

And if he were to violate those restrictions? If he were to, say, give in to the temptation to have an affair? Or if he were to slowly turn to abusing alcohol? It happens sometimes, even to the best of men.

Would you honestly say, “Eh, no big deal. What you do is your own business. I’m not going to insist on any rules in this marriage”?

89

*bolding mine
Were these restrictions requirements for the person you chose to marry? If your SO decides to no longer place these restrictions upon himself, would you continue your relationship with him? (honest questions-not trying to be catty)

It would seem that, for most marriages, we go into them with a set of expectations and choose a mate who already functions within those guidelines. Should they stray dramatically outside those parameters, then there are issues.

So, although they are restrictions he places upon himself and self-enforces, they would be your restrictions, too. It is a happy result that you both agree on them. Sadly, not all marriages are made of two people who agree where to draw the line. Trust is based on knowing that agreement is there.

90

If he were to take the restriction off himself that are essential parts of the marriage for me (cheating being one of them) the marriage would be over.

91

Finished too fast.

I tried in my first marriage to place restrictions on my ex-husband’s behavior. You know what - HE chooses HIS behavior. If I say “no, you can’t go screw around with other women” he can choose to obey the restriction or not. If he has his own restriction regarding the behavior, he seems far more likely to follow it. Perhaps that is simply my own experience being married to one man who has those restrictions on his own behavior (or perhaps I’m deluding myself, but I don’t think so) and one who didn’t, but I tried to impose them.

92

I’m just about ready to forbid any more light sabers. But they keep on putting out new models, you know?

The discussion on control and restrictions in marriage is very interesting. I would say we all exist on the continuum from being restricted and controlled by our partner to restricting and controlling ourselves. There are some things I don’t do because I don’t want to do them, there are things I don’t do because my husband doesn’t want me to do them, and there are things I don’t do because the consequences for doing them would be losing my husband. Does he control me? No, I control me. Do I control myself because of the restrictions he puts on me? Kinda sorta, but I choose these restrictions gladly, because the pay-off of continuing a relationship with him is worth it, and he does the same.

93

What** featherlou ** said. I’m not telling my SO what to do and I don’t think he’d cheat on me if he went to a bachelor party…but the question was, how would I feel about it? And the answer is, I feel very uncomfortable with it, and I see no need for my SO to go to strip clubs. If he feels differently, then it looks like we have a difference that needs to be worked out.

94

It does seem like we’re arguing semantics here, though.

Wife #1: I don’t want you to go to the party. I forbid it.

Wife #2: I don’t want you to go to the party. You can go if you want to…but if you do, I will be hurt, and it’s likely the beginning of the end of our relationship.

It seems it’s just a matter of wording…but the motivations and results are the same if the guy goes to the party, though the woman is taking more of a passive role in the second case. My lady telling me that my doing something will damage our relationship is, functionally, the same thing as forbidding me, since she’s a reasonable woman and I value her opinion and respect.

Of course, this always assumes we agree that it is reasonable for a wife to not want her husband to go to a bachelor party in the first place. I tend to think so, but that’s just me, based on my understanding of guys in general. Naked women+alcohol+peer pressure+ no strings attached sex = bad behavior at least some of the time. YMMV.

95

Ah, but madam, you misunderstand: I put myself on that leash, and I stated the reasons pretty clearly, I think: I’m risk averse. I don’t want to catch a disease or pass on a disease to my wife. I don’t want to get some woman pregnant (esp. as I am against abortion and adjust my own behavior accordingly). I also don’t like to lie, as I think that’s bad karma.

Now, if in the future I happen to meet up with an attractive, discreet woman with her tubes tied, a very high likelihood of disease-freeness, and the hots for me to boot, then I might just play those odds. In the meanwhile, I’m probably one of the safest husbands there is.

You talk about a leash, a leash of sexual loyalty. Well, everyone has one. For some it’s guilt: God says NO to adultery. For some it’s personal ethics. For others it’s fear, and for still others it’s fear plus control (the wife checks up on him).

Everyone has a leash of some type or another. It’s funny how many women in this thread say that their man is on the leash of personal ethics: “I can send him off to see the strippers because I know he wouldn’t do anything to hurt me.”

96

You are right, Stonebow. It’s for this reason that I would not want to attend a bachelor party where strippers will be involved. I wouldn’t want my spouse to even think that I might be slipping into temptation.

(Actually, I’m still single, and there are a lot of other reasons why I wouldn’t attend such a party. Still, if I were married, that concern would be high on my list of reasons not to go.)

97

First of all, there isn’t such a thing as “no strings at all attached sex” There are ALWAYS strings attached with sex - and with a stripper/hooker (and not all - I’d say not most - strippers are hookers), there are perhaps more strings than average. (Higher risk of STDs, you have to pay her, etc.) Second, peer pressure is going to depend on the peers you are with. I’m not sure how comfortable I’d be if Brainiac4’s friends were a bunch of cheating, sex starved yahoos, but they aren’t. And if his friends were a bunch of cheating, sex starved yahoos, we would have never started dating, much less gotten married. Third, not all strip clubs serve alcohol - in Minneapolis you get naked or you get booze - you don’t get both. In St. Paul, you get booze, but you get nekkid in the next room (with a glass wall).

I’ll agree that naked women+alcohol+peer pressure+ no strings attached sex = bad behavior at least some of the time FOR SOME MEN. And I was married to one of them. But I’m not buying that it as a universal.

98

My wife and I have a fairly simple test when it comes to social behavior. We ask ourselves, “Would my spouse be comfortable with me doing this?”

If the answer is “No,” then the activity should stop. Because the marriage isn’t just about what YOU feel comfortable doing; it’s about how your actions affect your spouse – whether they are with you or not.

99

Dangerosa, a couple of things:

  1. ‘no strings attached’ sex - the possibility of stds is a part of any causal sexual encounter. Hooker/stripper sex just has the advantage that you know that there won’t be any emotional entanglement if you’re willing to go that way. I don’t think we need to argue over semantics on this point.

  2. humans are never smarter in groups than they are alone. I’ve done a few stupid things on my own…I’ve done LOTS of stupid things with my friends. And on the whole, my friends are/were not a bad lot of folks.

  3. re: alcohol- most, though not all, of the bachelor parties I am familiar with (whether by invitation or hearsay) have not been in strip clubs. Dancers are hired and brought in- either to an apartment, or a private party room…so many of the legal issues you discuss in clubs do not apply. Aside from that, I know from my college roomies that the local clubs all had both liquor and women in the same room.

Anyway, I’m glad you trust your So…I trust mine. But I don’t like playing the odds once you add alcohol and peer pressure into the mix. And knowing what goes on sometimes, I never want to give my wife cause for worry, and she extends the same courtesy to me.

100

Sure. And if other couples want to draw the line somewhere else, they can. But if my husband who has my trust goes and has sex with a hooker, it isn’t because I trust him. It isn’t my fault. There’s no “I shouldn’t have let him go” or “I should have been more suspicious.” It’s just “He shouldn’t have done that.”