Alright, so then to put it in an innocent perspective, he’s beyond all what’s taking place on Middle Earth and just basically wished to live a peaceful life with Goldberry, not getting involved in any of the current conflicts. Like a retired person, more or less, taking it easy and enjoying life.
Sounds pretty good doesn’t it.
Even Goldberry is the daughter of another spirit. We have no idea who the father was. It is possible that as the river daughter she is the humanoid body of that the Spirit of the River and created without a father. Very hard to make an educated guess though.
Aeaea! I wrote a sentence that made sense to me when I wrote it, but which conveyed an entirely false connotation.
A) Eru sinks Numenor. Elendil sails to Middle Earth.
B) Elendil and sons, Gil-Galad, and a cast of thousands successfully make war on Sauron. Anarion, Gil-Galad, and Elendil are killed in the course of the war.
There were about 100 years between the events in A and those in B.
For what it is worth: I actually understood it and thought it was funny. 
It’s been a long time since I read the books, but I don’t recall Gandalf posting anything, or using a message board in any way. I do, however remember the scene when Frodo gets a text on his phone while he’s hiding from the Nazgûl.
Tom Bombadil was originally a doll belonging to one of Tolkien’s children, I think Michael (?). I have heard that Tolkien made up bedtime stories starring Tom for the child, and suddenly realized one night that, suitably tweaked, Tom was the perfect device for getting the hobbits out of the Old Forest, into possession of Numenorian knives, and to Bree safely.
That’s part of the reason that he doesn’t fit too well into the greater mythology. However, unlike some, I think this is a plus. It’s never good to have all the loose ends tied up. Ambiguity is more powerful than clarity, at a mythological level.
I can understand that explanation, but in reading some of the FAQ’s from links posted here, it’s also a cop-out. I mean, that’s a legitimate explantion, but in the greater LOTR world, it doesn’t work. It was similar to watching Episode III for me. As a devoted fan of SW it was my job to put it all together to make the six films work within the SW context, without falling back on the usual George Lucas insults.
I do know what you mean, and I’m sure there’s many similar explanation for events in LOTR, but withing that world there’s got to be more to him. So to fit him into my simplistic view of the LOTR world, I’ll have to go with the retirement thing. I hope you see what I mean, I’m not putting down your suggestion or anything.
And on a different note, I’m trying to find information on Sauron. That is turning out to be quite complex because now I’m encountering all the LOTR jargon that’s difficult to piece together. What a complex world, no wonder it’s a timeless work. I suppose some of that credit can be given to devoted fans who pieced together the complete world from various sources.
Nitpicks: The elves weren’t making rings before Sauron showed them how. And, because he was the one who taught them everything they knew about making Rings of Power, even though he didn’t know anything about the Three, the Three were still subject to the One when Sauron first put it on. As you say, though, as soon as Sauron put on the One, the Elves realized what had happened and took off their Rings before Sauron could exert control.
Also, addressing a point made earlier: despite the reference in the poem to Seven for the Dwarves and Nine for Men, Sauron didn’t specifically set out to make Nine, Seven and One. Rather, it was sixteen and One. Nine and seven simply refer to how he chose to dole them out. And, I’m guessing he was pretty damned disappointed at how it worked out with the Dwarves!
BTW if anyonw want to read up on that Balrog issue check here. Or run over to The Encyclopedia of Arda which is a great resource for quries such as this.
Re Why A Ring
Because the Norse/Germanic mythology that Tolkien drew from used a ring. Loki, Odin, and Thor are in the woods when one of them kills what seems to be an otter, but is actually Otter a dwarf who had magicked himself into a different shape for a while. Otter’s family demand appeasement. Loki gets them to agree to a heap of gold, about yay high and wide enough to cover Otter’s skin. The dwarves agree. Loki runs off and quickly returns with the treasure. He neglects to mention that it is cursed. The curse causes the dwarves to fight. After killing his brother, Fafnir takes the treasure to a nice cave and stays there to appreciate it. He turns into a dragon. The hero Sigfreid takes his father’s broken sword to a dwarven smith who reforges it. With the remade sword, Sigfreid slays the dragon Fafnir. He also takes a cursed ring from the dragon’s hoard.
Besides the Neibelungen saga, we’ve got plenty of other Norse/Germanic influences- Dvirge and Alfar were vaguely defined and sometimes interchangable until Tolkien gave us dwarves and elves. Odin/Wotan visited Midgard as an old man with long white hair, a staff, grey robes and a blue hat. Poke out one of Gandalf’s eyes and even the rest of the gods wouldn’t be able to tell them apart. Gandalf dies, and comes back white and shining. Balder was a bright and shining god. He died, but will return bright as ever after Ragnarok. Odin/Wotan had a missing eye. Sauron’s symbol is what now? Odin/Wotan had a magic ring called Draupnir. It made nine copies of itself every night. As a result leaders often gave their generals valuable rings as a reward for loyalty. “Ring giver” was a euphemism for king/chieftan.
Re How Sauron Lost The Ring
I am not half the Tolkien expert many other posters are. However, I assumed that this was another example of Grace. No human could possibly defeat Sauron in battle. But, if they were brave, noble, and pure of heart, then at the final moment Eru would give them the gift of Grace and they would succeed. There’s been a lot of discussion of Frodo receiving Grace. At the last moment, he cannot destroy the One Ring. The world is saved only through Grace, albeit in the form of Gollum biting off Frodo’s finger. This explains why Isildur didn’t just throw the Ring into fires of Mount Doom. Grace is given to certain mortals because some things cannot be done without it. But, at that moment Isildur was capable of making the right choice on his own. He made the wrong one.
LOL!
Actually, Gandalf stopped using message boards because he kept getting flamed by Saruman, Sauron, and The Balrog. Along with Denethor’s Gondor-o-centric myopia.
No, he still has a body. IIRC, Gollum saw Sauron when he was being tortured; he says something like “The Black Hand has but nine fingers, but those are enough”. He lost his ability to take a fair form, not to form a body.
Didn’t Galdriel & Cirdan support him at least?
Der Trihs has it right. Later, Sauron got disembodied after the ring was cut from him, but took shape again after a long time, and by the events of LOTR was embodied again.
Ideally, Sauron wanted to give all the lesser rings to the elves, as he saw men and dwarves as weak tools. He felt if he could enslave the elves, especially the Noldor, then he’d really have power.
So he was pissed when he failed in this, and gave out the rings to dwarves and men as second, lesser choices.
The first drafts of LOTR had a few elf-wraiths running around in it, before JRRT abandoned the idea that the elves took the rings and were overcome.
That’s 100 years from the arrival of the Numenorean refugees until the downfall of Sauron anyway. They didn’t wander for 100 years. The rest is pretty much spot on.
Keep in mind that when Isildur and Anarion landed in the region they later called Gondor, it was full of Numenorean colonists already, mostly faithful numenoreans who’d fled the persecution of their king. So these folks represented a thriving, vital culture, ready to embrace the Lord of Andunie (Elendil) as their Lord.
Elendil landed up by the Grey Havens, near his buddy Gil-Galad. There were fewer Numenorean refugees up there, but there were a lot of Elves of Noldorin and mixed background ready to renew the friendship with the descendants of Elros.
Actually, in HOMES XII, JRRT drafted writings telling how the Dunlendings were descended for the Edain, specifically the people of Haleth, the Third house of the Edain. They loved the woods, and didn’t heed the call to go to Numenor. When the Numenoreans first returned to Middle Earth, these folk were friendly with them. But when the Numenoreans came as conquerers, felling the forests to build their ships, the Dunlendings (people of Haleth) got pissed, and became their sworn enemy.
Just an unrealized musing of JRRT.
The Dwarves were a MAJOR disappointment to Sauron (and Morgoth, for all that). While the Dark Side managed to corrupt Men (not only the Easterlings and Southron, but the Swarthy Men in the First Age as well), Elves (if the Orcs really are corrupted Elves), and Ents (there is some speculation that the stony Trolls were created in imitation, if not in mutation, of the Ents), he never was capable of bending the Dwarves to his will. The best either of them ever did with the Dwarves was to manipulate their trust enough to make them suspicious of the other races. Aule made them of some tough stuff, physically and mentally.
Hobbits, of course, were entirely beneath notice until Gollum came to his attention and let the Bilbo cat out of the bag.
Actually, it’s not entirely clear if Isildur knew what the Ring really was. He seemed to treat it as weirgilt or a token of victory, not as a symbol of power. It’s also not entirely clear that Elrond was wholly aware of it or ever able to explain it to him. By the time they got around to it, it was probably too late. And there were few even among the elves who knew of the Rings of Power.
of course, Isildur probably did a giant :smack: after he kicked it.
It’s no speculation; Treebeard comes right out and says it. It’s unlikely that Morgoth corrupted Ents directly; trolls, while similar in scale, are simply not that much like Ents.
Imitation does not equal corrupt, and “The Ent” himself is the one who mentioned the imitation.
The Dwarves did number the Petty Dwarves but I think you are correct that Melkor could not even corrupt the Dwarves.