Wow! I’ve been in meetings all day and just peeked in. More great answers. Thanks everyone. If no one is getting too annoyed yet I have a few more questions.
What exactly IS Sauron. I vaguely remember from the Similrillian that he was the a captain or something like that of the first dark lord. He’s not an elf or a man…is he one of these lesser gods? Or is he the same as Gandalf?
Why couldn’t Frodo see the ring Gandalf had since he could see (and understand the mind of) the elven queen who had the white ring? They traveled together for months and knew each other for years, yet Frodo never suspected until the very end of the story. Why didn’t he seen the ring Elrond had (or know his thoughts, etc)?
Is it ever explained how Sauron managed to chain the 3 rings of the elves to the one even though he never saw or held them? How could he bind them to him if he had no hand in the making? Again, I seem to recall that at first it was a give and take type thing, with Sauron (who I guess at that time looked fair) taught the elf smiths some things and learned some things from them in return.
With all this fading away…what will become of everyone in the 4th age? The elves will all be gone, and the men all become lesser men…what will happen to the hobbits and dwarves? Do they fade as well to become lesser beings? Why does everything fade and grow lesser?
Last question: How do the elves get a choice between being immortal and mortal? Can they change their very nature with an act of will…simply decide that they will grow old and die, or not? What happens to the elves that die? I seem to recall that they end up going to the Western Lands if they die…if so, why bother going over the sea if they are bound there anyway? Why not rush out in a full out attack on Sauron…if they die the go over the sea. Or do I have this wrong?
Thanks for all the great answers. Obviously this set doesn’t come from my son…its questions I always had. When I originally read the Similrillian so much of it went over my head (some of that was language, some just the complexity) that I only remember bits and pieces.
Morgoth was the greatest of the gods of this world, but he refused to play nice. Instead, he wanted to dominate everything. Sauron was, like Gandalf, a Maiar. He became rather more powerful because Morgoth endowed Sauron with a small portion of his own power.
Elves don’t have the choice by default; the ones who became mortal were only half-elf. If they die their spirits travel over the sea to the Halls of Mandos, where eventually they live again. That does not mean they enjoy dying, and more to the the point they are not generally in a rush to leave behind Middle Earth.
There are basically two “levels” of the “Gods” (though neither they nor the folk who most venerated them (the Elves and Numenoreans) considered them to be actual deities…more like angels), the Valar and the Maiar. The Valar are the major spirits who came into Arda in Eru’s name to be guardians and guides for the creation that was made by the Song. The Maiar are the lesser spirits, most of whom (though not all) were servants to specific Valar. Both Gandalf (as Olorin) and Sauron were Maiar, as was the Balrog and all of the Wizards (Saruman, Radagast, and the Blue Wizards who disappeared into the East soon after landing on Middle-Earth). Melkor (Morgoth) was one of the Valar, and sometimes called the most powerful of them.
Galadriel chose to reveal those things to Frodo. If she hadn’t, he would have seen none of it. Even with the Ring around his neck, Frodo was only a hobbit, and no mental match for a Princess of the Noldor (a daughter of their High King in the West).
Sauron, disguised as Annatar (Lord of Gifts), learned much of magic and smithing from the Elves in Eregion, but the design of the Rings of Power was his alone. Celebrimbor and the other Mirdain used Sauron’s design and techniques to make the Three, and so they were caught up in his web when the One was created.
Not all the Elves were given the Choice. Only the Peredhil, or Half-Elves. Earendil, Elwing, Elrond, Elros, and Elrond’s children (Arwen and her brothers). Well, also Luthien, but she’s pretty much a unique case in the entire history of Middle-Earth, possibly the most powerful female in the history who wasn’t a full Ainu. A lot of things in Middle-Earth are possible only through the grace of Eru, channeled through the Valar, and this is one of them.
They wait in the Halls of Mandos. Eventually, they’re reborn in the Undying Lands. The Fate of the Elves is caught up with Arda. They’ll both perish together. Whereas the Fate of Men is outside the bounds of Arda and their spirits only stop in the Halls of Mandos for a brief time before escaping to the Outside (possibly to be with Eru, possibly to a new world…no one knows).
He’s a Maia, like Gandalf, Saruman and the Balrogs. Basically, he’s a lesser angel, as opposed to the Valar, who are equivalent to archangels. This includes his former master, Morgoth/Melkor. Sauron was Morgoth’s chief servant, and one of the most powerful Maia.
IIRC elves can’t choose between mortal and immortal; half elves can. If elves die, they go to the Halls of Mandos in the land of Valinor, under the rule of the Valar. When Men die, their spirits pass beyond the world; elves are bound to it.
The elves are in Middle Earth because they want to stay; the ones who wanted to go West left long ago. They don’t want change; one of the their reasons for creating the Rings ( as opposed to Sauron’s ) was to preserve the land as it is; Tolkien called them “embalmers” at one point.
Turn it around. Why is our world so drab compared to what we can imagine?–LOTR was JRRT’s response. Humans have an inherent longing for a brighter and less faded world that we indulge in epic lit.*
The ultimate question is whether the longing is for something that once was or can ever be real. The mere fact that authors like JRRT can make it real (maker/subcreator sense) is promising.
*I long. If this isn’t universal, I will withdraw the generalization.
Definitely better to think of the Valar as Arch Angels
The Maiar as an order of Angels.
The Balrogs were Fire spirits more than Angels.
I would say there was 3 classes.
Valar, Maiar and Spirits.
It is worth noting that one of the 1/2 elves that chose mortality was Luthien who was not half human but actually half Maiar.
How do you get that? In the writing JRRT did in his last 25 years of life, he had the Balrogs well-defined as Maiar. They were fire-spirits, just like Arien, who carries the sun. JRRT even made the point that Arien stayed true to Eru, while the Balrogs were seduced by Melkor.
I will concede gladly to your knowledge, I was basing it more on the Silmarillion. I have read that a dozen plus times and the Histories only once each.
Elrond’s wife was (is?) Celebrian, the daughter of Galadriel and Celeborn. On one journey from Rivendell to visit her parents in Lothlorien, she was attacked (and possibly raped) by a band of orcs. Her physical and mental injuries were so bad that she had to return over Sea to Valinor to recover. She never did return to Middle-Earth.
In 2509, Celebrian was journeying over the Misty Mountains through the Redhorn Gate to her parents’ home in Lothlorien when she was captured by Orcs. She received a poisoned wound and was tormented by the Orcs before her sons found her and rescued her. Elrond was able to heal her physical wounds, but Celebrian remained troubled by her memories and fear and she could no longer find joy in Middle-earth. She left Middle-earth in 2510 and sailed over the Sea to the Undying Lands.
Did he? I must’ve missed that. I thought Sauron’s power was down to the intrinsic strength of the Dark Side and not caring who he hurt to get what he wanted; whereas Gandalf was operating under limits. (Saruman tossed his limits aside when they became an inconvenience, but Sauron had a long head start on him.)
I don’t recall Morgoth passing any actual strength on to Sauron, but Sauron was his chief assistant. Deepest in his councils and dark secrets.
This extra knowledge would have made Sauron stronger than most Maiar and his utter ruthlessness vs. the Istari who were suppose to be greatly restricted and given the task to help and guide not directly fight Sauron.
And also, of course, when Morgoth’s enterprise went belly-up, there were still lots of bits and pieces fit for Sauron’s hands, such as a scattered but rebuilding population of orcs and so on for a start.
Help me out, I recall Sauron having charge over many very strong were-wolves.
Where did the disappear to after the fall on Angband?
By the third age, we only seem to have Wargs to deal with.
Any hints of the disapearance?
I recall Sauron create some or all of these creature with Draugluin being credited as the Sire.
He didn’t disaappear anywhere. The Valar caught him with the fall of Angband. It is noted that, for a brief time, he repented “if only out of fear.” However, he disobeyed the Valar and stayed in MIddle-Earth, and nursed his old enmity, and became the Dark Lord.
IIRC, SAuron was so close to Morgoth that he picked up a tiny fragment of Morgoth’s power. That was why he was able to share in every part of creation. Morgoth, and Morgoth alone, was favored by Eru with some knowledge, ability, and skill in everything. And he passed a bit of that on to Sauron.
Morgoth, of course, had faced tougher opponents. He was far more powerful than Sauron ever was. Morgoth faced off against the elves in their prime. He won as much by luck (had Feanor not fallen into his trap, I doubt that Morgoth would have made it) as by skill, but the elves in their prime were powerful, some close to the Valar in power!
