Well, Gandalf’s “firestorm” spell that he used when the Fellowship were attacked in Hollin suggests there were one or two about the place:
and the Fellowship, picking up the pieces by daylight, muttered something about them being no ordinary wolves.
Actually, I’m not certain that Tolkein’s werewolves were shapeshifters. As near as I can tell, they did not actually ever do so. They seemed to just be intelligent wolves; i.e., Wargs.
Except for Sauron himself, I don’t recall any other mention of shape shifting were-wolves. But the were-wolves mentioned in the Sil; were larger and fiercer than the Wargs of the Hobbit and LOTR.
It seems likely the Wargs are descendents but they are actually small compared to the were-wolves of the 1st age.
Well, there’s close, and then there’s close!
None of the Eldar had any hope of bringing down Melkor/Morgoth. This was said by Mandos (?) himself at Hanstovanen, in the Doom of the North. And in other places. If Feanor had not fallen into the trap, Morgoth would not have been defeated, only his minions would have fallen in greater number, and his plans delayed another 1000 years or so.
Two Eldar managed to overcome Maiar, Ecthelion and Glorfindel. But they were both slain in the process.
It’s true that Morgoth knew fear of the Noldor, and others. But having such a hand in creation of the world as he did, he was invincible to the Children of Iluvatar, fear or no.
It’s true that Morgoth weakened himself terribly, letting his power pass into his evil works. Even so, it took the combined league of the Valar, Maiar, Vanyar, along with the remnant of the Noldor under Finarfin (and stray Edain) to finally subdue him in the War of Wrath. Tulkas himself had to chain him.
And I believe pretty much all the Werewolves were killed by Huan (the wolfhound companion to Beren) - he definitely killed Drauglin, daddy werewolf.
Looking in he book Gandalf pretty much admits that it is Sauron:
Boromir says that he has heard that the Dark Lord has the power to control the weather and wonders if the storm is Sauron’s fault. Gimli replies along the lines of “His arm has grown long indeed if he can bring snow down 300 miles from the north” whereupon Gandalf says “His arm has grown long”.
PT
First, I believe Huan is on record as having slain only Draugluin and one of his get, Carcharoth. He may have slain more, but for a lot of his life he was in Valinor, then when he was in ME, he was with Celegorm, who was NOT on record as having been real cutting-edge when it came to battling Morgoth’s forces. So I misdoubt that one can claim Huan wiped out the entire species of werewolves of Angband.
Secondly, I think Gandalf’s comment could just as well be taken as him being cryptic, rather than confirmatory. Remember the words of Tom Bombadil, that rather odd, inadvertant intrusion from another subcreation: “Tom is no master of the weather, nor is aught that goes on two legs!” [sub]cryptic, no?[/sub]
So have you read anything to indicate what happened to the Werewolves?
I have never found any reference and when I was running a MERP campaign many years ago, I made heavy use of them.
I imagine they took heavy losses during the War of Wrath. I can’t imagine one standing up to the likes of Ingwë or Fionwë, much less Tulkas.
However, that’s merely conjecture on my part. Maybe the Balrog of Moria kept one for a pet? :eek:
Sorry, Poly. Missed this the first time around. In Quenya, it means “demon of might”. http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/quen-eng.rtf
Did you guys know that Melkor also got called Moringotto?? JRRT describes it as the most ancient form of his name, in HOMES X pg. 194. Tricksy! Tricksy!
I got waaay too much time on my hands this week.
Maybe they can use that in LotR II.
:: d&r ::
The werewolves, under the command of Gorthaur / Sauron occupied Minas Tirith, didn’t they? And weren’t they thrown out by Luthien or Galadriel?
Yes, but it needs to be clarified that the Minas Tirith in question was the island in the Sirion, not the Gondorian city (which didn’t even exist yet). When Sauron conquered the Pass, he kept the Tower intact, and changed the name of the island to Tol-in-Gaurhoth, the Isle of Werewolves.
Luthien broke the tower and bared its dungeons after defeating Sauron in a duel of spellsongs during the Quest of the Silmaril. Sauron fled and went into hiding for a number of years after that.
It only really took off during the Sixties counterculture, when college students discovered it. It was right for the times.
It was also the sudden availability of the very inexpensive Ace Paperback edition.
The LOTR was only available in the US in Hardcover before that.
This rogue publishing got a lot of press as they were not paying royalties to JRRT and he wrote the expanded appendixes and a few revisions to the main text to renew the US Copyright and thus were publish the famous Ballatine Editions.
The free publicity, followed by a following in the colleges that flowed out to the Hippies is what really caused the widespread popularity in the US. The UK story is a little different and one of our UK dopers will have to outline that.
OK, i have a question.
Are Ents Maiar? I know it seems dumb, but the Eagles are Maiar, and when discussing their creation in The Silmarillion it mentions spirits that will be sent to protect the animals and the plants from Dwarves and Men. I foget the exact phraisng but it was somehting to the effect the animals would be birds that dwell in the highest mountains or something, and then a mention of spirits that inhabit the forests and look after the trees.
This seems to imply that at least the first Ents were Maiair and the equivalent of the Eagles. Which brings up the next question: how do these incarnated Maiar breed? Melian bred by mating with an Elf, so the children had a ‘mortal’ father and were essentially elves. But when two eagles or two ents breed what are the children? Are they actually reproducing Maiar, which suggests that there is a limitless supply of these things that can be created without any direct intervention by the Valar or Eru, which sems odd.
And what ahppens to them when they die? Do Ents and Eagles go to the West? Do they leave Arda altogether? Do they reincarnate?
Neither the Ents nor the Eagles are Maiar. They may be spirits indwelling in the Ent bodies, but they’re a lesser order than the Ainur.
The Ainur who came into Arda all took physical forms (except for Ulmo), the word which Tolkien uses for these forms escapes me at the moment, though. The forms were abandonable, though…when Thingol is murdered by the Dwarves, Melian simply slips from her body in grief and flies directly to Valinor.
Fanar (s. fana)
Thankee! I just couldn’t grab it out of the chaos…
None of this is going to be much use to an 8 year old, but:
Sauron poured all of his malice and will to dominate others into the ring. And they say as much at the Council of Elrond.
My theory about LOTR is that Tolkien spent a lifetime studying languages and storytelling of the middle ages and LOTR is his attempt at storytelling a chivalric adventure. He also was intensely religious and concerned about good and evil. So LOTR is a fairy tale turning into an epic that is an example of storytelling and about storytelling with the theme of how people deal with evil in their selves and lives. Each of the characters (except Sauron) tell stories and there are many stories within stories.
The ring is a meditation on evil. It appeals to ambition unsupported by authority. If we go back to the Council of Elrond statement, this evil is distilled “will to dominate others”, that is, enslaving them instead of free will, a decidedly religious view.
Another theme that Tolkien has running through the book is one of authority in the the religious sense. The various heroes have earned or been born into positions that give them authority do things.
Gandalf has been given some authority and a lot of power. But he is not allowed to use it in front of people, his job there is to inspire, which he keeps at for about 2000 years. He is an angle.
But when Gandalf is alone, and people aren’t around to see how powerful he is and start thinking that he might fight their battles for them, he is up to the task. He is not allowed to confront Sauron directly, that job is left to mortals, because mortals must face evil, and Sauron and the ring are evil, people must deal with those evils with only Gandalf’s advice encouragement for help.
But when Gandalf is alone, he walks in and out of Dol Guldur right under Sauron’s nose. He fights all 9 Nazgul on Weathertop and drives them off. He kills the Balrog, his evil equivilent. Gandalf says these were all very close run things, and maybe they were. But Gandalf had the authority to do these things (when defending himself and people were not around) whereas the evil guys did not have the authority to do what they do. Thus Gandalf defeated them.
The bad guys. The bad guys are fearsome. But the power to invoke fear and cow people seems to be their chief evil power. Tolkien’s point seems to be that if you can control yourself, you can overcome most evil.