I think they suggested those scenes were from the next five episodes.
I’d say the Others were just assuming that Claire would get sick. After all she did conceive before she arrived. And when did they make this serum breakthrough? The last time she talked to Ben in the flashback Juliet had not made any progress along those lines. In fact, she had given up.
Very few people know about Sun’s pregnancy, so I don’t think the Others know yet.
Why do you think Juliet was sent to spy? What other information does Ben want?
Really enjoyed the episode, but didn’t buy the quick back down from Sayid and Sawyer.
Seems that is the primary defense mechanism from the Others. Bring up some incriminating past event to make the attacker withdraw. Can’t see that working for much longer.
Loved Mr. Nonchalant Sawyer getting so emotional seeing Kate return. And also he offered be get Claire aspirin without negotiation. Are they trying to turn him into a nice guy?
Where’s the surly Sawyer we’ve come to know and love?
This just occurred to me: Don’t the “other’s” flashbacks essentially disprove the **“Lost Time” ** theory? It seems pretty evident the events shown in the other’s flashbacks correspond with with the amount of time they’ve spent on the island, which suggests that the island’s time has to be running concurrently to the rest of the world’s.
Yes. I thought the same thing.
Just before Ben told Juliet her sister was sick again I half expected him to finish the line “she’ll be dead…” with “she’s 92…how long did you expect her to wait for you?”
Kate pregnant?
Kate’s look of horror at the revelation that the mothers on the island all die was accompanied by her looking over her shoulder and a shot of Sun. Kate is the only person she’s confided in that we know of. Did she tell Jin? Can’t remember. At any rate, Kate’s not concerned about any pregnancy of her own (it’s only been about a week since she did it with Sawyer, so even if she conceived, she’d have no way of knowing a fertilized egg is heading toward implantation). While I think a Kate pregnancy would be a good possible storyline, I don’t think they’re hinting at it yet.
I don’t think Juliet’s planning any double-cross against Ben. Her final, badass look out to the ocean seemed pretty unambiguous to me. God, she’s lovely.
I agree that Juliet’s ploy of turning the moral table back to Sawyer and Sayid fell flat. I didn’t buy for a minute that those two would cower before her just because she knows about their past misdeeds. The weakest element of an otherwise great episode.
And in another excellent casting decision: The actresses playing Juliet and Rachel could actually be taken for sisters.
I thought the part in the confrontation that worked for me was the suggestion that Claire would die if she didn’t bring back the meds. Both men seem to feel regret (certainly Sayid) for their past murders (even if it was for survival). The risk that they could cause Claire’s death by withholding Juliette’s meds cracked their confidence, just enough.
I was completely taken by surprise about Juliette;s deception!
Juliet is a bad, bad woman. And if she hurts Jack, I hope the TCM filets her.
So they implanted something inside of Claire that they could remotely turn on/off at will, which would cause her to start bleeding from the nose? How absolutely ridiculous.
Did anyone see the date on the newspaper? I’m assuming the crash happened 3 years ago and it’s now, what, December '04?
Yes. I don’t think Claire ever was in any real danger, either before or after giving birth to Aaron.
Was Sun impregnated on the island, or before? I don’t remember. If before, then I don’t think she’d be in any danger either.
Death due to pregnancy would certainly be motivation to keep Alex’s boyfriend away from her.
I thought it was a good episode and put a lot of things in context by answering a few questions. Though it continues to avoid the meta-question about why the Others don’t simply leave the island. What is it that is so compelling that they remain? I think they really believe that they are the good guys. So what is their driving force? Their motivation to endure, deceive, kidnap, and murder?
For example, Juliet doesn’t seem inherently evil to me at all. Yet her behavior could certainly be classified as such. What is driving her to go over to the dark side?
As an aside, there was a statement earlier in the thread about Ben being born on the island. Didn’t he just say he has lived there his entire life? Unless I’m mistaken, I don’t think we can assume he was born there.
The Losties have only been on the island for 3 or 4 months now.
–FCOD
Lost themed PVP:
http://www.pvponline.com/article/3257/wed-apr-11
Brian
Aaaaand once again, the Others demonstrate their near precognitive ability to anticipate the actions of dozens of people with dead accuracy. This is becoming incredibly frustrating. How could they possibly predict that Sayid, of all people, would back down against the awesome threat that is “she’s under my protection?” Or that Juliet curing an illness that she caused would earn her the respect and trust and warm-fuzzies of the people she’s helped kidnap, attack, murder, and brutalize? Or that Jack would be the stupidest stupid who ever stupided?
I will say this: I don’t think I’ve ever disliked a television character more than I dislike Juliet. It’s not the fact that she’s smug and evil - Ben is smug and evil, and I think his is an awesome character. But Juliet combines her smugness and essentially bad character with utterly unearned moral superiority, tremendous self-pity (oh, you haven’t seen your sister, lately? Poor you! I wonder if those people on the other side of the island living in the sand and getting beaten to death by your associates have family that they miss, too?), and - this is my favorite - an amazing inability to understand why people don’t like her. I say this not as a criticism of the show, actually; the writers and Elizabeth Mitchell have done a remarkable job of creating a truly unsympathetic, unlikable character without resorting to (metaphorical) moustache twirling theatrics. This whole season will be worth watching for me if someone can just wipe the smug smirk off Juliet’s face for one minute.
The episode was well-written, and I think it does a good job of showing how the character traits and tendencies that have been building for years - the Losties tendency to rely on Jack’s judgment, Sayid’s guilt over his past actions, Sawyer’s need to ingratiate himself with the group and avoid making waves - are screwing them now. I mean, Season 1 Sayid tortured Sawyer over asthma medicine. Season 1 Sawyer didn’t give a crap who was under Jack’s protection or what Jack (or anyone) thought of what he did. Because the characters have evolved, though, the Juliet-as-spy situation is more problematic than it would have been if they were as they were when we first met them. That’s good writing.
Sayid didn’t back down - he merely assessed that Jack’s assertion made it unwise to persist at that moment. Sayid took the first opportunity to confront Juliet, taking muscle along with him - complete disregard for Jack’s “protection.”
Oh, and BTW, where the hell did the meek and mild-mannered Juliette obtain her mad ninja skillz that she used against Kate? That was one of my Top-Ten WTF moments of this entire season.
I don’t remember how Juliet put it, but according to her, Ethan was acting strange. This brings up a lot of questions:
Will Ethan’s actions be attributed to the disease that Rousseau warned about?
Were the killers of the tail section people diseased people not under Ben’s orders?
Were the ragged people that Jin and Eko saw diseased?
None of these explain Goodman killing that tail section guy.
Is the pregnancy problem related to the disease?
Has Desmond given any information about the medicines he had in the Hatch?
I don’t see how the others could find out about Sawyer killing that guy unless he was wanted for the murder by Australian authorities. It just seems too much of a stretch to get the info from the guy who conned Sawyer it.
Everything she said was a lie. How do we know? In the first case, her lips where moving. In the second, they said so in the last scene with her and Ben.
Regarding the whole “Kate is pregnant” theory, Sawyer seems like the kinda guy who would be well versed in the “pull out” method of birth control. Why wouldn’t he pull out?
I guess the whole scenario gives The Hobbit free license to impregnate Evangeline Lilly at his leisure.
But the best lies are as close to the truth as possible. Only a bad liar would lie about something unnecessary.
I must say that is the fakest looking submarine ever.
Fair enough. Then how could the Others have predicted that Sayid would fold like wet cardboard when Juliet brought up his past occupation? Seems to me he could have easily said, “You know what, you are right. Claire’s health should be the chief consideration here. This case appears to contain an injection kit, something that our own doctor can probably use without your assistance. Mr. Sawyer, would you kindly return this case to Dr. Shepard, while the woman who put you in a cage and tasered you has a little discussion with me?”
Note that I’m not saying this is what Sayid should have done, merely that he could have. The Others’ plans hinge on the idea that he would not, which seems to be either precognitive or awfully risky.
Yes, and I assume that what we actually see in a flashback is accurate, at least from the point of view of the flashback character. (In other words, what we saw is what Juliet saw. Ben may have lied to her about something but we saw an accurate recreation of the events as experienced by Juliet.)
This is different from things that one character simply tells another, which could quite easily be a lie.
So Claire was in no danger since she got pregnant well before she arrived on the island. Juliet’s statement that they were using her as a “control” may actually have been the truth at some level. Obviously what happened to her here had nothing to do with that but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t at least partially true.
(Spoiler for the title and flashback character of a future episode and some speculation based on same.)
I don’t think Kate was worried about herself, I think she was worried about Sun. Episode 18, airing 4/25 is a Sun episode titled “D.O.C.” which apparently stands for “Date Of Conception”. I suspect (and this is speculation, not spoilage) that the question of when Sun got pregnant will become very important. If the father if the baby is Jae, then Sun is safe. If it is Jin and she got pregnant on the Island, she may be in trouble. If and when Juliet learns of Sun’s pregnancy, that may be what finally makes her switch sides.
Claire’s “illness” was caused by an “implant” that the Others put in her, presumably during the time when she was kidnapped. She escaped, with the aid of Alex. Now, Alex helped her because she said they were going to kill Claire and take her baby. But, if they were planning to kill Claire, why bother with this implant in the first place? Did they intend for Claire to escape all along? Was Alex (perhaps unknowingly manipulated into it by Ben) in on the deception all along? Were the Others setting plans in motion that far back?
Also, some more speculation on my part. Several people have expressed disbelief that the Others could so accurately predict the reactions of so many people. Well, precognition and/or time travel have been established to exist in the Lost universe. Maybe they know exactly what to do and how to manipulate people into doing it because they’ve seen it.
I misunderstood: I thought you were talking about the “She’s not coming with us” “Yes she is” scene as an example of Sayid backing down. I agree the scene around Ethan’s drop site is weaker - but it’s not necessarly an example of eery precognition. Juliet thrust herself into Lostie territory trusting her ability to navigate any challenges encountered. Her quick thinking to deflate Sayid/Saywer’s moral high-ground, emphasizing the urgency of Claire’s condition was well-played. It caught Sayid a bit flat-footed for the moment - but he will have other chances.