Lost 3.18 "D.O.C."

Cafe Society
61

They obviously aren’t in Purgatory. Unless somehow Purgatory is accessible via helicopter and submarine. There is obviously some reason why parachute-gal thinks everyone on 815 is dead but we just don’t know what it is.

Remember, the tide came in and washed the fuselage off the beach (and the tail section landed off shore in the first place). Maybe the wreckage somehow got carried by the current to somewhere that it could be found, the searchers found it and the bodies inside and assumed everyone had died. Given that the interior of the fuselage was burned, so they may not have been able to determine how many bodies there were and they may also have assumed a fire on board was responsible for the crash.

I believe that the “black box” is usually in the tail so they may even have found it.

62

[QUOTE=Monstre]
I think Jin’s “daddy issues” are with Sun’s daddy.

[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily. “Daddy issues” can go both ways. In this case, Jin had a loving, understanding father. However, Jim was ashamed of him - so what you get is daddy issues where the son is the bad one.

If that’s the case, you can take a yellow submarine from the USA to Purgatory. I wouldn’t throw a fit quite yet. There’s all sorts of possibilities, including S&R compromised by DHARMA.

Speaking of which, from a legal standpoint, what happens when someone (Hugo) comes back to life? His money has, presumably, all been given to his mother. How’s that work?

Oh, and did anyone else notice how many people on this show are connected to people with huge amounts of wealth? Desmond, Jin/Sun, Hurley, and probably someone else I can’t remember.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The magic healing is causing an immune system battle between mother and baby - and the baby is winning.

Do we know if Juliet’s failures have surviving babies? Second trimester without advanced meds, I guess not.

-Joe

63

[QUOTE=Merijeek]
Oh, and did anyone else notice how many people on this show are connected to people with huge amounts of wealth? Desmond, Jin/Sun, Hurley, and probably someone else I can’t remember.
[/QUOTE]
Locke’s dad, too. And Cassidy.

So we’ve got a lot of confirmations this episode, which was nice. A couple more questions, too.

I’m guessing The Others somehow staged the “815 crashed” thing, just so there’d be no rescue attempts that would get them to the island.

Oh, and I do think The Other Mothers know their fate is to die. When Ben and Juliet were talking on the rocks after one died, he said something like “she knew the risks”.

64

[QUOTE=Merijeek]
Speaking of which, from a legal standpoint, what happens when someone (Hugo) comes back to life? His money has, presumably, all been given to his mother. How’s that work?
[/QUOTE]

Some guy did a staff report about that a while back: http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mlegallydead.html

Of course, it’s a bit more complicated if they had a positive ID of a body and administered the estate. Then again, it’s only been 90 days, hardly enough time for that to have happened yet. We can only hope he had an estate plan that left everything to someone other than dad. It’d be interesting if he returned to discover that he’d “left” everything to DHARMA or Ben.

65

I really enjoyed this episode, thought it was very well written and exceptionally well acted. Yunjin Kim is a tremendously good actor, I think. Some thoughts:

  • They are not in purgatory. We know that the island can be reached by submarine, helicopter, and sailboat. We know that it is possible to leave the island (cf, Michael and Walt). Naomi’s comments are tremendously easy to explain, and don’t even require a staged crash site or wreckage drifting in the tide - all the stateside arm of the Others (the one run by Batmanuel from The Tick) has to do is give the right amount of money to the right people and they will announce any old thing you want them to announce - even that Flight 815 has been found and that there were no survivors.

  • Someone has not yet put two and two together, but the information she gave Sun is going to be the end of Juliet’s secret agent status. She explicitly told Sun that women who conceive off-island are in no danger; she explicitly told Jack, et al, that Claire, who conceived off-island, was in danger. Any way you slice it, that requires some explaining, and if Sun and Jack/Kate/Claire have even one tiny little conversation, Juliet’s in big trouble.

  • I still loathe Juliet. I loathe her even more when she does things like say “I hate you” into the supa-secret tape recorder for Ben. She is making the choice to do the horrible things she’s doing, and the fact that she’s doing them in pursuit of a reward - exodus - does not particularly render her sympathetic. She’s a bad person, who thinks she’s a good person in a bad situation; as long as this season ends with her uppance coming, I will be very happy with Lost.

66

[QUOTE=vivalostwages]
Well, maybe I can’t hate Juliet quite as much as she hates Ben. Still, she’s in with 'em.

[/QUOTE]

I have to admit it: I kind of rolled my eyes at Juliet’s “I hate you”–it sounds like the kind of thing a whiny teenager would say (“I hate you! You’re so mean! stomp”)

I can picture Ben going “As long as you get the samples and do your job I don’t really care if you want my head on a pike…”

(Or not. Ben and Juliet may have had a thing previously, and he seems really concerned about her believing in him–see him showing her Rachel and her son.)

67

[QUOTE=storyteller0910]

Any way you slice it, that requires some explaining, and if Sun and Jack/Kate/Claire have even one tiny little conversation, Juliet’s in big trouble.

[/QUOTE]

Ah, but this would require the Losties actually, you know, talking. :wink:

68

[QUOTE=storyteller0910]

  • They are not in purgatory. We know that the island can be reached by submarine, helicopter, and sailboat. We know that it is possible to leave the island (cf, Michael and Walt). Naomi’s comments are tremendously easy to explain, and don’t even require a staged crash site or wreckage drifting in the tide - all the stateside arm of the Others (the one run by Batmanuel from The Tick) has to do is give the right amount of money to the right people and they will announce any old thing you want them to announce - even that Flight 815 has been found and that there were no survivors.
    [/QUOTE]

I suspect you are right about that. Whether it is some sort of time-space anomaly or a misinformation effort, the reappearance of either Michael and Walt or Juliet and Jack would cause serious problems. This suggests that Ben never really intended to permit Jack to leave (and possibly anticipated Locke’s sabotage) and probably didn’t send Michael and Walt to “find rescue” in the way that they thought he did.

69

[QUOTE=Kythereia]
Ah, but this would require the Losties actually, you know, talking. :wink:
[/QUOTE]
They’ve been getting better at this lately! In this episode alone, Kate told Sun very important information about her pregnancy. Sun knew where Jin was and with who. And Charlie had been told about The Flame, Mikhail, and the Sonic Fence. Maybe they’re learning their lesson after keeping so many secrets?

70

[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
I still loathe Juliet. I loathe her even more when she does things like say “I hate you” into the supa-secret tape recorder for Ben.
[/QUOTE]

I thought she turned it off before she said “I hate you.”

71

[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
I really enjoyed this episode, thought it was very well written and exceptionally well acted. Yunjin Kim is a tremendously good actor, I think. Some thoughts:
[/QUOTE]

Seconded. It’s easy to rehash what happened in the story and forget to mention that it was a very good episode. Especially when you consider that I thought it was going to be a bunch of pretty dully Baby Daddy Drama.

Still, the stupidity virus is still running loose. Sun goes with Probable Threat in the middle of the night into the jungle. Why can’t she just say, “No, we can wait till morning and we’re going to take some people with us”?

-Joe

72

[QUOTE=Shoeless]
I thought she turned it off before she said “I hate you.”
[/QUOTE]

That was my impression as well. She didn’t turn it off after she said it; she just put it down and closed the locker.

73

[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
We know that the island can be reached by submarine, helicopter, and sailboat.
[/QUOTE]
Also hot-air balloon, parachute, slave ship, research vessel, and crashing airliner.

74

[QUOTE=Gfactor]
I suspect you are right about that. Whether it is some sort of time-space anomaly or a misinformation effort, the reappearance of either Michael and Walt or Juliet and Jack would cause serious problems. This suggests that Ben never really intended to permit Jack to leave (and possibly anticipated Locke’s sabotage) and probably didn’t send Michael and Walt to “find rescue” in the way that they thought he did.
[/QUOTE]

Or, they really and truly believe that nobody can get to the island, so they’re safe no matter what.

Of course, Helicopter Girl could change that opinion pretty quick.

-Joe

75

[QUOTE=storyteller0910]

  • Someone has not yet put two and two together, but the information she gave Sun is going to be the end of Juliet’s secret agent status. She explicitly told Sun that women who conceive off-island are in no danger; she explicitly told Jack, et al, that Claire, who conceived off-island, was in danger. Any way you slice it, that requires some explaining, and if Sun and Jack/Kate/Claire have even one tiny little conversation, Juliet’s in big trouble.
    [/QUOTE]

Actually, I think she said that she had been giving Claire some drugs while they were examining her and that it was the withdrawal from those drugs that was causing her problems. I’m pretty sure she was consistent about the on-island/off-island thing.

76

[QUOTE=Merijeek]
Still, the stupidity virus is still running loose. Sun goes with Probable Threat in the middle of the night into the jungle. Why can’t she just say, “No, we can wait till morning and we’re going to take some people with us”?

-Joe
[/QUOTE]
What made Juliet a “probable threat?” Possible, sure. But probable?

77

[QUOTE=Merijeek]
Seconded. It’s easy to rehash what happened in the story and forget to mention that it was a very good episode. Especially when you consider that I thought it was going to be a bunch of pretty dully Baby Daddy Drama.

Still, the stupidity virus is still running loose. Sun goes with Probable Threat in the middle of the night into the jungle. Why can’t she just say, “No, we can wait till morning and we’re going to take some people with us”?

-Joe
[/QUOTE]

I know. I was thinking “they made such an effort to kidnap Claire away from the camp, and now you’re following the mysterious other away from the camp, alone, at night…” - it’s easier to kidnap someone if you just wake them up in the middle of the night, I guess, and say “come with me! learn mysterious stuff!”

I think the writers mock us, the viewers, sometimes, in a way.

Sun started asking reasonable questions (why are you taking children?, what are you doing here?, etc) - saying that she demanded answers. Finally she asks “What happens to pregnant women on the island?” - hears a two word answer, and walks away.

So, she demands answers to many reasonable questions, gets a terse answer to one, and she’s apparently satisfied with the new information.

Every time I see the characters start asking reasonable questions, I start to wonder how they’ll weasel out of getting answers this time. “It’s complicated” is still the best one.

Oh, and Juliet definitely shut off the recorder before she said “I hate you” - they made an effort of showing the recorder from the side, and showed the spindles stop.

78

[QUOTE=tanstaafl]
Actually, I think she said that she had been giving Claire some drugs while they were examining her and that it was the withdrawal from those drugs that was causing her problems. I’m pretty sure she was consistent about the on-island/off-island thing.
[/QUOTE]
Also, Claire may have been their first data point for off-island conceptions. Maybe Juliet’s extrapolating the “safe off-island conceptions” from Aaron’s birth, and nothing else.

79

[QUOTE=Merijeek]
Still, the stupidity virus is still running loose. Sun goes with Probable Threat in the middle of the night into the jungle. Why can’t she just say, “No, we can wait till morning and we’re going to take some people with us”?

[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I thought this, too. Is Juliet really in any position to refuse, supposing Sun does say this?

Also, I was thinking to myself that if I were sleeping alone on a beach where one person has already been murdered by a member of the same group of psychopaths as my new neighbor, I’d probably ferret away a nice sharp piece of fuselage under my pillow. And when I woke up to find said new neighbor behaving in a very threatening and suspicious way? I might be inclined to stab first, ask questions later. I don’t know; Juliet takes an awful big risk sneaking up on Sun like that, is all I’m saying.

80

[QUOTE=Merijeek]
Or, they really and truly believe that nobody can get to the island, so they’re safe no matter what.

Of course, Helicopter Girl could change that opinion pretty quick.

-Joe
[/QUOTE]

Heh. Well, beyond that, it appears they’ve got an off-island operation that could be exposed if Michael shows up and, against his own best interest, explains where he’s been and who he was with (assuming he isn’t put into a padded room).

And Jack and Juliet present an even more credible threat. Jack wouldn’t come back raving about meanies and yellow submarines, he knows a bit more about the others (although it could all be false info), Juliet knows names and locations. Maybe not enough to actually get anyone caught, but why risk it?