Jack says 3 things to Kate at the end:
We made a mistake.
We weren’t supposed to get off the island.
We have to go back.
Note he says “we”. He thinks they need to go back to try and undo something they did (both of them). Maybe he and Kate were the only ones who got off The Island on the helicopter. That would lend credence to my theory about Michael being in the coffin, since he got off The Island earlier. Of course the hole in that theory is… why didn’t WAAAALT go to the funeral.
Link to PDF file for the front page of the newspaper Jack was reading. Date is April 5, 2007.
Does the guy in the photo look like the guy on the Hanso site?
Man, this episode sucked. I’m so angry about being hooked on Lost. :<
Why did Charlie lock himself inside the drowning room, instead of outside?
How did spear-gunned Cyclops make it from bleeding on the floor to swimming around outside the station with a handgranade, and scuba gear? And how many times does that dude have to die, anyway?
Speaking of which, doesn’t anybody on that show know it takes more than 10 seconds to die from drowning, and that it’s not a peaceful and pleasant way to go?
Why did Ben walk off and leave Locke bleeding in a pit? And why does nobody ever check to see if somebody’s dead on that show?
Why would Ben pretend to kill Jin & Co? “Man, I really need to get Jack to see my way on this thing. I know! I’ll pretend to kill his friends!”
Anyway… it goes on and on, but I’ve spent too much time already.
A show like Lost depends on suspension of disbelief, but they’ve been on probation for months already, and I just can’t suspend the sentence any more.
WAG: Hanso Corp. has physically abducted Walt. Michael was killed by the abductors, or he fell into a black depression and killed himself. Hanso paid for Michael’s funeral. Walt’s abilities allow him to commune with Locke-- his faux island father (black and white) – so Locke can still see and hear him from a distance.
It might be that Charlie believed it was necessary that he die.
We don’t know how Cyclops is surviving (and healing damage from) fatal incidents, but it’s well established in the show that he does so. So it’s no suprise that he survived the spear and healed enough to swim afterwards.
It’s a pretty common tv/movie cliche, though. I wouldn’t fault the show in particular.
I concur.
I’m not sure, but plausible theories can be spun. Ben wants Jack to think he means business. But he also hopes to use the hostages for future gain, once he’s got the present situation under control. So in other words, he expected to get Jack to capitulate at least after Jack heard the first gunshot. But once Ben has the phone, if he didn’t really kill the hostages, then he’s still got them as an assett to be used for future schemes.
Fair enough, but I think most people thought this episode was a return to form for the show.
-FrL-
Yeah, I was thinking of that as a possible explanation.
Is this the first time we’ve seen under his eyepatch? Didn’t anyone else here think it was weird that his missing eye was scabbed over entirely?
Yes, it was the first time. Looked to me like it was sutured shut.
Overall I’d have to say that Lost really delivered with this episode, closing the season on a high note that will certainly sustain its buzz going into next February.
I’m especially intrigued by the potential for the flash-forwards. I was genuinely surprised by this, as the flashbacks up until the revealation of Kate were very frustrating and somewhat pointless to the main island story. Once it became clear we were flash-forward, the usual interpretation–the flashback informs actions on the island–was quickly reversed: Events on the island now informed the content of the flash-forward, and the episode quickly locked into revealation. In an instant, we began, for example, to take Ben’s warning seriously, something I never thought we could do given his character’s manipulations throughout this season. It was a true masterstroke of an idea.
But now the cat is out of the bag; you obviously can’t make the switcheroo again, so it will be interesting if they can find other dramatic uses for this device. The downside, obviously, is now we know Jack is miserable after leaving the island, and that is going to hang on every fated move he makes from here on out. That may be a liability for his character, but I have enough faith in the writers to think they’ll work around this. In any event, there wasn’t much point in continuing strictly with the flashbacks; really, how much more backstory was there to be had?
I also now see Desmond and Charlie’s storyline regarding the inevitability of fate as presaging/“laying down the rules” for use of the flash-forward. I thought for most of the season theirs was a neat little story in and of itself, but aside from Charlie’s inevitable sacrifice for the greater good, this subsection of Lost wouldn’t really produce much other than the required death of a major character at season’s end (just to prove that everyone on the show is vulnerable). Now, it seems Fate (with a capital F) is going to play a much bigger role in the series, and having Charlie die the way he did–underscoring the inevitability of Desmond’s predictions–is a way to tell us that what we see in the flash-forwards is 100% real (I reject completely the idea Jack’s future is some alternative reality). If the producers continue with this device into next season, the Desmond/Charlie story was their way of indicating that it’s not going to be part of some elaborate hoax: What we see in the future, much like Desmond’s predictions, we can safely assume will generally come to pass. And, much like Desmond, we may feel a little uncomfortable about knowing too much.
Looking at where we are now–the Others are severely changed/compromised, rescue seems imminent, Locke is becoming scary, and the expectation of more information about post-island life–I am genuinely excited for the possibilities of this series. One could even say the series may no longer just be about the castaways getting off the island; the larger themes of Science vs. Faith and Personal Destiny, planted as background in the earlier seasons, are now coming into the foreground. I think Lost will be a fascinating show to watch in 2008.
He wasn’t pretending, but it’s still a valid point. Ben had nothing to bargain with after ordering the killings, except maybe the truth, and Jack wouldn’t believe him anyway.
So, assuming that the rescue effort went down at the end of the events of this episode, that would mean the Losties got off the island around Christmas 2004, right (give or take)?
Establishing the date of the FF firmly in 2007 means the Losties would have been home for nearly two years.
Just trying to wrap my brain around this.
I don’t quite get why everyone is so upset about this one. One of the main themes has been destiny. Charlie thought he was protecting Claire. How can one argue the logical response to psychic premonition? There isn’t an SOP for it.
I got the impression Ben was testing Locke’s power and didn’t care if he lived or died. Probably wanted him to suffer, either way. Heck, maybe he didn’t think the island would be powerful enough to heal a gutshot. Again, no SOP for dealing with islands that heal paralysis.
No upside to killing them. However, the bluff had to be made and Ben couldn’t let Jack know it was a bluff. If he capitulated, and called it off, he’d lose all leverage. Of course, maybe he didn’t realize how annoying he was and that Jack was going to give him a savage ass whupping…
Yes. I was just going to post something about that. WTF?
And… the guy Jack talked to on the satellite phone sounded awfully fishy. His tone of voice sounded like one of The Others, and note that he never asked:
How can you be the survivors of 815? They’re all dead. (That’s what Naomi thinks, or at least that’s what she told them she thinks).
How many are you?
Do you have any hurt or do you need us to bring anything or can you give us some info about the terrain where you are, or SOMETHING or than “We’ll be right there”. That’s exactly what one of The Others would say.
In post #168 I gave my theory about some of the things that happened in The Island’s past that haven’t been shown to us yet.
Here are my thoughts about upcoming events:
Ben was telling the truth for the first time in his life when he said that Naomi and company meant no good for anyone on The Island. They are Dharma. They have a vested interest in keeping The Island and its mysteries to themselves and thus have no intention to rescue anyone and return them to the outside World where they might tell their story.
Dharma will attempt to capture and imprison the Losties and revenge themselves on the Hostiles. Some of the Losties will evade them and end up being absorbed into the Hostiles who will be under new management. Namely, John Locke.
End of season 4.
It will turn out that most of the Hostiles are not bad people at all. They were lied to and manipulated by Ben. All of the really nasty people among the Hostiles were killed in the beach assault and the Looking Glass (except, perhaps for Mikhail–that bastard just won’t lie down and die like good boy).
The combined group will then counter-attack the Dharma forces and eventually free the captured Losties.
End of season 5.
Dharma will decide that it must try a more diplomatic approach and negotiate with the Losties/Hostiles. (This may be occasioned by a shakeup in control at Dharma HQ with Alvar Hanso retaking the group from Mittelwerk and Penny Widmore taking over from her Dad.) At least some of the Losties will be allowed to return to the World at large, but only after making some kind non-disclosure agreement. The deal will include perks like the golden ticket and Kate’s freedom from prosecution. This is when Desmond’s vision of Claire and Aaron rescued will finally come true.
End of series.
Of course it will be made a lot more exciting than this description sounds by injecting mysteries, answers, and subplots into the mix.
Now I only have three years to wait to bask in your amazement at my clairvoyance.
Screen capture of the clipping.
I don’t see the Jo— Latham that someone else saw. One clear word is “beam”, which is kind of interesting.
The letters “–tham” are kinda clear, and I’ve read speculation that the name is Jeremy Bentham. Not another economist, but a social reformer.
Ben is supposed to be soooo smart. Let me offer him some advice from the Hostage Taking for Dummies Manual:
Note: This method can work even if you simply pretend to kill the hostages, though it’s important to be in a secluded place where not every Tom, Dick and Hurley can come barreling in to rescue them.
There was no rhyme or reason to pretend to come them all in quick succession because you’ve just killed (literally or figuratively) your leverage.
It’s also important to note that it’s not a brilliant idea to use this tactic when you are older, weaker and slower than the adversary who’s less than 5 feet away, not to mention the fact that you’re outnumbered, oh, 30 or so to 1.
Two things:
When Ben first talked to Jack, he made reference to making a decision that caused the death of many people, and implied that Jack was about to make that same decision.
Ben said that Naomi was not who she seemed, and that the people she worked for would kill every living person on the island.
I think Ben was right on both counts. My guess is that the island “cures” its inhabitants and protects them from death (other than that inflected by other islanders, at least.) The island allows Locke to walk. The island made somebody’s cancer (Rose’s?) go into remission. Etc.
The decision Jack makes is to call for rescue. He, and many (maybe all) of the islanders are “rescued.” They get back to the mainland and start dropping like flies. That’s when Jack realizes that Ben was right. That’s what sends him on his downward spiral.
He did make a decision that caused the death of all his friends. The people on Naomi’s boat killed all the islanders, but not by murdering them or through any nefarious means – they caused their death just by taking them away from the island.
[Bolding added]
Interesting theory, except I assumed that the golden ticket (although I think Jack called it a Golden Pass or a Gold Pass) was given to them by Oceanic Airlines, presumably in partial compensation for the crash. The only problem with my theory is that the airline’s website said that it went out of business after the crash of Flight 815.
I think Ben was right up to a point. I don’t know that the Dharma folks would want to kill the Losties. And The Island didn’t stop Boone from dying, nor did it save the Marshal, or the tailies that died soon after the crash. Ben was pretty sure he’d die without an operation.
Plus Arzt. And the chick who drowned. And all the pregnant ladies. I’m pretty sure the island doesn’t just keep everyone alive unless they’re murdered.
