Also, we don’t know that Widmore wants 3.2 million from Ben. Just that Miles does.
Hell, I want 3.2 million form Ben. (As long as he’s handing out cash and all.)
[QUOTE=Trion]
Also, we don’t know that Widmore wants 3.2 million from Ben. Just that Miles does.
[/QUOTE]
Right. Miles appears to work for Widmore and has offered to lie to him in exchange for 3.2 M. How he’d be able to hide the transfer from Widmore is . . . complicated.
[QUOTE=SenorBeef]
Jin’s flashback had no purpose on its own, it was only there to be a gimmick so that they could have the OMG FOOLED YOU!!!111 Lost ending.
[/QUOTE]
I think Jin’s flashback was meant to remind us of where he came from, up to the ‘present’ on the Island–where he is. He was impatient, driven and uncaring, dedicated to his job before his wife. On the island he *has become * loving and forgiving, a better man & husband. It also adds weight to the reveal that he dies in the near future. To say it had no purpose on it’s own is a little harsh. His flashback was classic Lost, using a moment in the character’s past to help understand his present.
In my opinion, this was an absolutley great use of the flashback/forward device in this episode. The ending packed a real emotional punch.
[QUOTE=Indistinguishable]
Wow, I completely misinterpreted the flashback interplaying with the flashforward. I thought “What? Jin faked his death and remarried? How and why?!”
[/QUOTE]
You and me both, buddy :smack:. I actually had this whole theory that it was two separate futures on two different timelines. Until he arrived at the hospital, I thought there was some sinister plot to keep Jin from arriving in time, and that Dharma-ites or someone was going to steal her bay-bee.
I’m not sure I understand the hate-on for this episode, I was riveted.
[QUOTE=Merijeek]
To your first question, I assume it already has been analyzed - since, you know, the freighter is actually AT the island.
-Joe
[/QUOTE]
Why would the black box from the fake plane crash give accurate info concerning the actual plane crash, as in the location of the island?
And, if the black box had been analyzed, why bring it along on the boat?
It just seems to me that the fake crash could be accomplished by fake video and a few recovered artifacts. Why would you actually need a real airplane and 324 dead people?
[QUOTE=anamnesis]
True enough, but I think that notion is invalidated by the note (presumably from Michael/Mr. Jackson) … the Captain may be straightforward and direct, but that doesn’t mean what he’s saying is true.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t agree. The note likely came from Ben’s “man on the boat” (Michael) and it’s more likely that the note is a lie.
[QUOTE=Trion]
Also, we don’t know that Widmore wants 3.2 million from Ben. Just that Miles does.
Hell, I want 3.2 million form Ben. (As long as he’s handing out cash and all.)
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the 3.2 million is what Miles thinks he needs to get from Ben to make it worth his while to cross Widmore and then either strand or kill the Freighter People.
There may be some hidden depth to 3.2 million, but it will involve Ben and/or Miles, not Widmore.
-Joe
RE: Michael The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Is Michael sabotaging the boat and crew and also helping Sayid and Desmond? Why would Ben want to help Losties, or for that matter lie to them? I get the motivation for messing with the crew but no clue why he would help or hurt Losties.
I think it’s so cool that Hurly came to see Sun. Why didn’t any of the others acknowledge her giving birth? How can you possibly go thru such a life changing experience with other people and then cross them out of your life as if they never existed? Hurly is also the one who tried to talk Jack into going back to the island, presumably to rescue the ones left behind. He doesn’t seem so crazy to me.
[QUOTE=anamnesis]
True enough, but I think that notion is invalidated by the note (presumably from Michael/Mr. Jackson) … the Captain may be straightforward and direct, but that doesn’t mean what he’s saying is true.
[/QUOTE]
Would that be Michael Jackson?
[QUOTE=running piglet cheese]
I think it’s so cool that Hurly came to see Sun. Why didn’t any of the others acknowledge her giving birth? How can you possibly go thru such a life changing experience with other people and then cross them out of your life as if they never existed? Hurly is also the one who tried to talk Jack into going back to the island, presumably to rescue the ones left behind. He doesn’t seem so crazy to me.
[/QUOTE]
I think we were just told that no one else is coming. Presumably Kate is preparing for trial and can’t leave the state, so that takes care of her and Aaron. Sayid is probably undercover doing some killings. Dunno what Jack’s problem is.
[QUOTE=running piglet cheese]
Why would the black box from the fake plane crash give accurate info concerning the actual plane crash, as in the location of the island?
And, if the black box had been analyzed, why bring it along on the boat?
[/QUOTE]
First, I may have been a bit confused - was this box from the real crash or the fake one? If it was from the real one they must have picked it up recently (since getting to the vicinity of the island), and that answers that. But then they already knew where the crash was, which means they had to have gotten the island’s location from Penny’s guys or the Black Rock Book.
If it’s from the fake, I assume that means there was a recovery mission, and the bodies were raised to the surface along with the recorder.
As for bringing it on the boat? If it’s real, it shows they’ve been to the island close enough to recover the recorder from the tail section that landed in the water. If it’s the fake, it shows they went deep, deep under the water to grab it.
[QUOTE=running piglet cheese]
It just seems to me that the fake crash could be accomplished by fake video and a few recovered artifacts. Why would you actually need a real airplane and 324 dead people?
[/QUOTE]
I presume there will be a reason - maybe even one that makes sense.
However, there’s some facts that, when put together seem to be getting overlooked:
- Oceanic 815 crashes with all 324 people lost
- Oceanic 815 is found with 324 corpses aboard - everyone is very specific on this point, so I take it to mean that, yes, they either recovered the wreckage or had their robotic submarine count bodies
- Six survivors, who had already literally been counted dead in their seats, show up alive and kicking.
- The Oceanic Six are famous worldwide - as evidenced by Sayid being known in Germany, Sun in Korea, and Jack/Kate/Hugo in the USA.
All of this adds up to “huge ass conspiracy that gets blown wide open” in my mind. I wonder if they’ll do anything with this?
-Joe
Mu guess about the black box is that if Widmore analyzes it, he will see that it is not in fact from Flight 815. It’s a bogus box from a bogus crash, allegedly staged by Ben.
My first instinct about the note to Sayid and Desmond, presumably from Michael, was that it was a lie. Michael will do anything to protect HIS SON, WAAAAAAALT! And if that means double crossing his fellow Losties once again, then he’ll do it. I would never have put any credence into the freighter people actually being good guys except for Ben’s whole “You’re mine” tantrum he had while showing Juliet Goodwin’s bloated corpse.
[QUOTE=The Chao Goes Mu]
Mu guess about the black box is that if Widmore analyzes it, he will see that it is not in fact from Flight 815. It’s a bogus box from a bogus crash, allegedly staged by Ben.
My first instinct about the note to Sayid and Desmond, presumably from Michael, was that it was a lie. Michael will do anything to protect HIS SON, WAAAAAAALT! And if that means double crossing his fellow Losties once again, then he’ll do it. I would never have put any credence into the freighter people actually being good guys except for Ben’s whole “You’re mine” tantrum he had while showing Juliet Goodwin’s bloated corpse.
[/QUOTE]
Nobody on the show is particularly good, and I don’t see why the Freighter Folk would be any different. However, the fact that rescuing the Losties is kind of a “if we find time and it’s convenient” sort of goal for them is a long way off from Ben’s “they will kill every living person on this island!” bit.
-Joe
OK. Black box, I seem to remember that the captain said Widmore paid mega bucks to get it. The implication was that it was from the recovered deep-sea plane. But maybe that was just my assumption. Actually it makes much more sense than it being the black box from the island crash. Nothing has been mentioned about anyone from Ben’s camp coming across it and surely anyone from outside showing up to find it would have been noticed.
Why would Widmore even want the black box? I’m so confused. However, I must enjoy it as I keep right on watching.
[QUOTE=Omniscient]
No, no, no.
The Captain was telling them that the wreckage was found and that all 324 bodies were on board. He says that Widmore went through great expense to acquire the black box. But he says that they should consider the influence and cost it would take to fake that crash and that it explains why they want Ben so bad. Was clear to me that this meant Ben and his people were responsible for faking the wreckage.
[/QUOTE]
Interesting. I had somehow interpreted the exchange as being that Widmore had staged the crash and so they had no choice but to go along with him or else they would wind up like the other 324 bodies.
I should have thought though, if Widmore had staged the crash, he wouldn’t have had to go through a lot of cost and effort to get the black box since he would have had it in the first place.
So I guess it boils down to who we believe more; Ben or Widmore.
[QUOTE=tanstaafl]
So I guess it boils down to who we believe more; Ben or Widmore.
[/QUOTE]
It really is hard to discern which is the evil (or more evil) one. For all we know, the man that Widmore was pummeling in the tape Ben showed jack could’ve been someone who desperately deserved a Daddy Widmore smackdown.
[QUOTE=running piglet cheese]
Why would Widmore even want the black box? I’m so confused. However, I must enjoy it as I keep right on watching.
[/QUOTE]
OK, here’s my theory on the black box. Sayid and Desmond go to the deck of the ship and see that the helicopter is gone on an “errand”. I am assuming that the errand was picking up the black box from the airplane. The black box would possibly contain directions on how to get to the plane as well as proof of survivors (to show that the crash of the plane in the ocean was a fake).
As for what’s going to happen, the spoiler I read (and this is a HUGE one):
[spoiler]Season 4 is supposed to be how they get off of the island. Season 5 is all about trying to get back to the island. Season 6 is what happens when they return.
Not sure if this is spoiler, but part of it hasn’t exactly been revealed yet and the other part is theory:
Let’s not forget that Widmore was a financier of Dharma and his revenge on Ben killing all of his people would be motivation enough to do everything in his power to get the island back and that’s why the necessity of secrecy for the freighter folk. I’d assume.[/spoiler]
[QUOTE=The Chao Goes Mu]
It really is hard to discern which is the evil (or more evil) one. For all we know, the man that Widmore was pummeling in the tape Ben showed jack could’ve been someone who desperately deserved a Daddy Widmore smackdown.
[/QUOTE]
Might have been one of Wilhelmina’s operatives! :eek:
-Joe
The dialogue about the black box was ambiguous at the beginning. He started talking about how Widmore had gone to the trouble to get the black box, and then explained how the plane and bodies were found, all of which suggests that Widmore was involved. I think Widmore probably did fund the effort that resulted in finding the plane and fake bodies.
Then he goes off about how much it would have taken to stage a wreck, and to get 324 bodies, and then he says that’s why they want Ben.
This raises a few questions:
-
Is it the fake black box (in which case it doesn’t make sense why they have it on the freighter) or the real one (I’d think that one would be harder to find)? Probably the fake one.
-
Do they want Ben so that they can exploit him somehow (he’s got enough power to produce 324 bodies), because of a grudge (maybe he ripped Widmore off, or somehow filed a fake insurance claim), or because he’s in the way?
-
Why does Widmore give a crap about flight 815 in the first place?
I’m thinking that Ben staged the crash and that Pappy Widmore found it and the black box. The question I have is, why would Ben bother staging the crash at all? Oceanic 815 was a thousand miles off course and could have simply disappeared without a trace. Unless, he wanted the island to be found – by the one person on earth with the resources and the drive to do so. Ben must want some sort of confrontation.