Someone else mentioned that, and I had no idea. It must have been a fact revealed at a time when I was preoccupied with some other weirdness. In which case, I haven’t a clue what’s up with the map. My theory sounds more likely and fits better, I think.
Sort of. It shows that the “Good Guy” is willing to allow hundreds of people to be steamrolled so that he can…prove a point?
-Joe
That points to another problem in fitting (or, if you prefer, retconning) Dharma into the Jacob/MIB conflict. Before we knew about Jacob, we thought Dharma originally found the Island on its own, via the Lamppost station and the bigass Foucault’s pendulum. But now we have learned that nobody finds the Island without specifically being “invited” by Jacob. So presumably he knew Dharma was looking for the Island, and let them find it. But why would he do that? Why let in a large, well-equipped group of people whose sole purpose was to exploit the Island’s power? That’s like someone who’s in charge of preserving a rain forest inviting developers in and then being surprised when they strip the place clean.
The only explanation I can think of is something others have proposed: Jacob is a delusional moron.
In which case, Jack really is the best choice to replace him!
When did we learn that?
I think it was when our two immortals were talking and Blackie pointed out that the people on the boat were being brought by Jacob.
-Joe
And in Ab Aeterno, Jacob specifically tells Richard that nobody gets on the Island unless he “invites” them.
Oh, ok. I didn’t think that scene was meant to imply that the only way people could come to the island is through Jacob, but I certainly could be wrong.
Would this be the right place to ask about how the Others managed to get a bus to hit Juliet’s ex-husband so she would be free to leave her work and come to the island? That was actually the funniest black humor I’ve seen on this show–she said she could leave “if he got hit by a bus” and–wham.
While I couldn’t agree more that Jack is the best delusional moron to replace Jacob, what if the Dharma project is merely a vehicle for moving the plot forward? What I mean by that is, perhaps Jacob allowed Dharma to come to the island so that the food/supply drops would start. This increase in resources would allow Jacob to bring increasingly more people (pawns) to the island with no worries about fighting (and killing) over food. All the studying and hippie nonsense is just another way for a group to attempt to dominate and control – and the Dharmites weren’t above hurting or killing people as a means to reach that end. File under “everything else is just progress.” Perhaps he wanted to allow the experiments to happen; maybe he thought he’d learn more about the island that he, himself, is so clueless about.
I don’t think Dharma is very relevant to the overarching plot; I think it was just a tool for the writers to be able to introduce more layers of plot complication for the viewers to try to sort out.
I think my only remaining unsatisfied questions are:
•What was the point of drawing attention to WAAAAALLLLT and his specialness? Why was he special? Is that still relevant?
•The pregnancy thing. I like the theory floated upthread about the well of souls, but I’m having trouble making the connection. If the island is the home base for all souls, good and bad, dead or otherwise, then why don’t babies come to term? It seems to me like there’s a ready supply of souls just waiting for a body, somewhere in that tunnel of light. If the no babies thing is a result of The Incident, then that builds the case that the Dharma plot line was necessary. Perhaps the Keepers of the island learned that babies born there are special (Maybe Waaaaaaaalt was born there!) and the Usual Rules do not apply to them; therefore, they are a threat to the game Jacob/MIB are playing.
They used The Numbers. 
Presumably, The Others have a slew of operatives off-island. Sort of like the butcher lady that Ben had store Locke’s body before bringing it back to The Island.
You don’t remember the white smoke? The giant pillar of white smoke the Others lit when then went wandering around the island looking for kids to steal?
I don’t remember any of these details, meaning that’s not what I was talking about. I do remember that the white smoke pyre was lit at the others’ camp, so it’s not like she cuold have lit it as a means of subterfuge without the others wondering what the heck this giant fire was that all of a sudden appeared in their camp.
You really don’t remember the white smoke? (It was clearly white, not black.) We always saw it way off in the distance, on the other side of the island, a tall, thin tower of smoke. This was one of the first solid behaviors of the others we got, right around the time we learned that they wore disguises. (Which was also stupid and didn’t fit their later characterization, btw.) After we learn more about them, it becomes clear that the others would never light such a signal fire; the writers included it simply for effect, regardless of the fact that it was contrary to characterization.
And that’s my core complaint on everything: the stuff they included just to be mysterious often (if not always) undermined the characterization we get later once we meet the people that did these mysterious things.
No, they didn’t. The Others brought them to turn the donkey wheel, because (and this is my best guess) Southern Californians can’t imagine anything surviving cold temperatures except for polar bears. We in the north see all manner of mammals wandering around during brutally cold winters seemingly without a care in the world, so we would never think you’d need a friggin’ polar bear to turn a wheel in the cold.
To be clear, my bad on the polar bear complaint; I wasn’t smart enough to piece together that answer. The writers have long said many answers are there, just not spoonfed to us. The polar bears are a perfect example. This thread helped explain that to me, though you still haven’t got it if you think it was about experiments.
The polar bears were brought in to turn the wheel. They were kept in cages where you had to turn a donkey-wheel like device to get food. (Remember Sawyer and his fish pellets?) So that was training them to turn the wheel. Plus, the two guys we saw turn the wheel (Ben and Locke) ended up in the desert; I seem to think it was Tunisia. Whatever. We also saw Charlotte find a polar bear skeleton in Tunisia (or wherever.) So the two pieces of the puzzle are that the act of eating trained them to turn the wheels, and we found one where you end up when you turn the wheel.
Makes perfect sense. That it isn’t “spoonfed” is a gross understatement and frankly insulting, when it would have been so easy to explain it with a single line of dialog. For example, when Locke is sent to turn the wheel, an offhand “use your polar bear strength” would have sufficed. Or when ben went to turn it, he could mutter under his breath something like “never a polar bear when you need one.”
Even still, I’m forced to retract my polar bear complaint. I simply wasn’t smart enough to piece it together. I do, however, stand by my criticism of the white smoke. And the infection. You’re crazy if you think they’ll bother with addressing the infection again. No chance in hell.
I can’t find what you are referring to. I did find this:
But Jacob is talking about his hiding place under the statue–not the island.
It’s clear to me that Jacob can cause people to come to the island; it’s less than clear to me that they can’t get there by other means.
*JACOB: No one comes in unless I invite them in. *
All non-Jacob entities are vampires. That explains the whole mystery!!!
No Dharma = no Swan station = no system failure = no discharge = no plane crash = no Lost.
Dunno, seems kinda important 
I’m not sure I remember what you’re talking about either. I remember the one Apos referred to – in this picture (and at the end of Season 1):
And that was the one that threw the Losties into panic, Jack wanting to hide them all in “the hatch”, and Rousseau used the distraction to baby-nap Aaron, hoping to trade for Alex. The source of that thin pillar of smoke was discovered to be a brazier in a clearing. While I don’t think the show ever made specific resolution of who lit that brazier, I always had the impression it was Rousseau herself who lit that one, using it to BS the Losties and hoping to draw some Others to meet with, in hopes of making the Aaron-for-Alex trade.
If you’re talking about a different pillar of smoke from a different episode – I’m a little confused. Which ep? (or even which season?)
Yeah, it was black smoke, and I’m pretty sure it was a tire fire set by the CFL.
-Joe
Yeah, that was the one. If that’s all it was I stand corrected. I do seem to recall it happening in more than one episode, but then again my memory is clear that it was white so what do I know. heh. I also sort of remember the pyre being found in the others’ camp, but again, memory is a tricky thing.
That does seem like something more in the MIB’s interests, in terms of exploiting the island’s powers. But I think we’ve seen clear evidence that Jacob brings people to the island, but doesn’t prevent their method of arrival from including uninvited people. The Mother probably drew the ship to the island in order to get to Claudia’s baby, but had no interest in the other people who happened to survive the shipwreck.
Seems further evidenced by the fact that the Other’s had lists of specific people from the plane to kidnap, seemingly showing that Jacob wasn’t interested in anyone else who came along for the ride.
Although Dharma used the LampPost to find the island, they found out about the island from the British soldiers’ mission to the island. It’s not clear how they discovered the island (it would seem they went their on purpose rather than shipwrecking, as they had a whole nuclear setup).
Nah he just said that no one could come into his fortresses of footitude without an invite. So how did Locke get in? I guess leaders of the Others have a standing invitation or perhaps they can get in if Richard opens the door.
What we did learn, in this episode, is that Widmore couldn’t come until he was invited. I think this was only because he was specifically banished. I don’t think you need an invite if you haven’t been banished.
Well whaddya know . . . I went back and watched that *Ab Aeterno *scene, and yes, I see now that Jacob was specifically talking about the statue. I think I’d missed the split-second bit where Richard looks over at the statue first, then Jacob says the line about no one getting in unless they’re invited. I assumed he was talking about the Island as a whole.
So . . . even though Jacob brings some people to the Island on purpose, that’s not necessarily the only way to get there. Which makes more sense, and explains why the Army/Dharma was able to discover it on their own.
(How they discovered the smoke monster could be held back by a sonic fence is still a good question.)
I don’t remember it being white, or any evidence of it being white. But you do, apparently. Thus, the writers are inconsistent and hate america, because why would Sayid light black smoke in Season 2? It makes no sense! The producers can’t even decide what color smoke is!
Again, you’re sort of proving my point. There was no pyre in the others’ camp. It was on the beach. And the only person around was crazycakes French lady.
We didn’t learn that until nearly all the way into Season 2. You’re talking about the end of Season 1.
This is the problem with a show that ambiguous: it leaves people to surmise things, and then in their memory remembering those details as more certain than they were. But we don’t know that the Others lit that pyre. And if they did, then it was simply to intimidate the Losties while they tried to steal Walt.
It’s Rosseau, the CRAZY WOMAN, who believes that the Others are heralded by smoke. But as we later learn, she may well have been confused by the smoke monster/whispers and her survival habit of running the hell away from anything that hints of them.
I don’t know why you think the costumes were out of character either. The Others were trying to obscure their level of strength and technology, to scare the Losties, to control them while they figured out what the heck to do about them and what they meant. How is this not part of their nature?
Again, what the HECK are you talking about? I don’t deny that this show has plotholes and dead-ends. But the polar bears trained to turn the donkey wheel? Seriously? No wonder the show is so unsatisfying for you: you’re expecting it to answer mysteries you invented out of thin air.
What wheel? Sawyer had to pull a lever, hold down a pedal, and push a button. And these were in cages that were NOWHERE NEAR THE DONKEY WHEEL. Not even on the same island.
And it’s made clear that Dharma was the one experimenting on the bears. Not the Others. The Others didn’t give a crap about their experiments. And we don’t know for sure where they came from. They may have gotten on the Island because it moves all over the damn place, apparently.
You’re pulling my leg, aren’t you?
Why on earth would anyone want or need a polar bear to turn the wheel? What would be the point of turning it continually? The Island gets knocked about in time when its turned.
Plus, no one had even been in the donkey-wheel room since before Dharma times.
So, again: what?
And yes, we will get to hear more about the infection. They’ve been adding to our knowledge of it the whole season. That’s what all the stuff with Dogen and Sayid was all about. It’s all being tied into the explanation of whatever Smokey really is and why he’s bad.