Who refers back to a quote, and doesn’t put it into a post when they are railroading you?
Bill. That’s who.
**Frankly, I forgot to go click a link. Big whoop. **
Really, my omission is of more importance, over being railroaded? Do we not put any weight on Jimmy anymore?
Back to the name-claim game, one aspect that I haven’t seen mentioned:
Basically, this is another potential problem for scum in the event of a mass name-claim: They obviously can’t pick a name from the top third of the fuselage survivors list storyteller] posted, because they’d be pretty likely to hit a duplicate, limiting their survival to 2 days at best. But that gives Town another tool to work with: lynch the jewel thieves, or their equivalent. (Or at least regard name obscurity as another hint of scumminess).
Incidentally, I also am not a fan of “mass name claim except for the doctor” - what if there is no doctor, and Jack is generic town? What if the doctor makes up a name, but the scum claims to be Jack, and claims to be generic town? What if someone else is the doctor?
Too damn confusing.
Or worse - what if Jack lies and claims a different name, while a Townie shares that name. We would believe one of them to be Scum, and lynch two Townies for nothing.
If we were to mass claim, it would have to be a full mass claim. But I don’t think we are there yet.
Meeko, it’s way past time someone told you this but, not everything in this game is about you, no matter how hard you try and make it that way. Dragging previous games in the way you are doing here is not cool, and is extremely Anti-town. There was no reason to believe what AllWalker said had anything to do with Crimson Glyph at all. I’m thinking about voting you now, not strictly for the way you have twisted people’s words around, but also because you seem determined to make this game a commentary on your Mafia skills or something. The way you are acting is amazingly Antitown, which is not necessarily the same as pro-scum, but is close enough on Day 1.
On another note, on a reread of the thread, I realized the implications of this state from our mod.
That just SCREAMS to me that a mass name claim would be a major benefit to the Town. Would Jack(assuming he’s the Doc, which seems likely) be exposed, along with other power roles potentially? Sure. But who cares if they are if we set ourselves up to win the game? We’re playing Mafia here, where you win by lynching all the scum. Having the doctor, detective, whatever hidden to the end is not how you win. Sure, it can contribute to winning, but it doesn’t win the game in and of itself.
This is evolving into many things. Its the explanation you guys seem to want. For many things.
**
Is there any defense against the Vultures play? **
What I meant to say then, and will hopefully elaborate on now is this:
This game is full of catch-22. If you are going to actually play the game, you stick your neck out VERY Far. While you are laying out the groundwork, people sit back, and wait. During your work, you clear most of the field. However, you will step on a landmine. That is when the vultures come in. They could care less about your previous work. But, will they kick you when you are down, and feast on your body? YES.
Do I really play this game too much? Is that a problem? I have never encountered a game that punishes you for playing too much. All I want to do, is understand, and play Mafia. I find things that I feel I MUST comment on. Thankfully, for better for worse, I have the time to do it.
Not that it matters, I get it. But I truly did think Regretable was doing things that, needed to be looked at. He moved too soon and too fast. And this is Meeko’s opinion of things. Did he later regret his votes? Did he later change my mind? Yes. Do I need to admit to that? I thought my actions would speak one way or the other. You guys complain about my Noise. You would want more?
Here is a little tidbit you guys might have picked up on : for better for worse, I always find myself in the deep end in mafia. I can tread water, and I can swim. Just don’t make fun of me, if my stroke is something you have never seen. IF it is any consolation, At times, I find other players play as baffling as mine. (Then again, At times, I probably get immediately close to Peeker’s play, and having seen Peeker play, … I am sorry for being Peeker Jr. **At those times.
**
I digress. Back to what ever this is.
Bull Chit then comes in, and frankly, I thought he slipped up one big. HUGE. For a while, this was great, I had a way to change my vote from Regretable, and not draw too much attention.
Is it bad to wait for a more opportune time to do two things at once? I wanted to vote off Pede for a fraction of time before I wanted to vote for Jimmy. Is it bad play to double up a post like this? Ironically, once I saw that people were voting for Regretable, I regreted not voting for him. (The math at the time was kinda a no brainer for me as well.)
But then, Quick change comes in, looks at Bull Chit, agrees with me, but starts to feast off of me. Bill, why bring up Bull Chit at all then? FWIW, an immediate vote and unvote for Bull Chit, to me would have gone a LOT farther in my book.
But, you know, pushing my buttons didn’t come from Quick Change. King Vulture comes in. He is telling me he’s not holding a grudge. Anyone who believes this, stand on your head.
No one can get tosses around like Allwalker and I did and NOT carry a grudge. (Yes, I hold a grudge over it.) If nothing else, I would like to know where Allwalker learned to debate. It might prove to be the wrong play here, but I was more or less giving the King Vulture a free pass here. Thoughts on voting for Allwalker only came AFTER he voted for me.
Ask OreDigger about grudges. [[Oh wait, he voted for me too. -Research “The Dragon’s Hoard” Haggle on your own time if you want the backstory here, gang.]]
Everywhere I try to do the right things, I invariably fail. But as always, I do not appologize for my style of play. If I have to conform to what everone else wants me to do, It is no longer my game, right?
Peeker probably knows this. His play is teflon to stuff like this. I wonder when other players drove him off, to adopt the play style he did.
All I know, is that I got started too early in this game. I messed up bad. I tried to fix it, and to point out the REAL issues. Look where that got me.
My best play here is shut up. It looks as if I soon wont have that choice.
Re-evaluate my play. There is nothing else I can do to prove I am Town.
Or does the actual aspect of the “Game” not even matter anymore? I mean, you guys are killing for convenience, not for a town victory.
Hopefully the entire game of Mafia can understand me here. Hopefully it will trickle down.
But yes, I get too emotional for these games. That sucks. because I truly enjoy playing. – I don’t think anyone can rob me of that.
-Meeko
Who, remains amazed at how ““Wrong”” he remains in Mafia. When everyone else seems to have the thickest skin possible.
Fuck it. I’m Sawyer.
Nanook, it is unclear exactly how helpful a mass claim would be at this stage. Mahaloth said the names and alignments roughly match, and by my count 4 players have agreed that their character and alignment matches (sorry if I missed anyone):
*paulwhoisaghost
*Nanook
*Meeko
*AllWalker
The thing is, though, how many characters are ther who couldn’t fit into either catagory without too much stretching? I mean, from what I hear Locke could go either way, Jack would almost certainly be a Survivor and that weedy-looking guy who leads the Others at the time of the crash would probably be one of the Others (unless he joins the Survivors at some stage in the show after I stopped watching…).
Mass claiming would only benefit Town if there were enough of these unambiguous roles. I’d say if we could confirm at least as many number of Town as there are Scum in the game (approx. 4, probably,) we would be doing well. There are a number of dangers arising from this…
I think mass claiming is inevitable. But right now might be a little soon.
I also said my name and role matched. I’m generally in favor of a mass name-claim, but willing to wait on it.
NETA: I mean my name and alignment.
On Meeko:
I think he’s town. I also think the above is only slightly too harsh. Fundamentally, this game is about our characters, not ourselves. Meeko, I think you’re reading this game as about you, which is a problem. Allwalker is not trying to get you killed for sins in a past game (I’d imagine, I don’t know of course). He, and several others at this point, is worried that you’re being paranoid and, in that paranoia, are misrepresenting others’ posts. Mafia is about objective analysis of information. Seeing guilt where there isn’t any is scummy in itself; it makes it look like you’re happy with any lynch that isn’t you.
The BillMC issue is a case in point. You now see your mistake there, he was linking his previous case against you. What might work better for you there is saying “sh*t, my mistake.” People screw up all the time, it’s natural. Instead I think you’re being reactive. In a sense, that’s also natural; people are trying to kill you after all :-P. But more productive is admitting the mistake, apologizing, and moving on. We’re all looking for scum here.
On the game:
I still think that pede was being unnecessarily defensive to meeko’s initial accusation. I’m reading that as a minor scum tell, which is the best that I have to go on right now. Only other thing I’m concerned about is the string of monday morning meeko votes; it’s a fast pile-on. I’d be surprised if the mafia weren’t joining about now under the cover of checking in after the weekend.
You’re right. My concern:
I can’t imagine that mahaloth created a game that could be broken by a mass name claim on day 1; he has to have built some counter measures into the design. Counter measures means “traps” in this case. Some of the more experienced players might have thoughts on what those could be and how to handle them. Personally, I’m inclined to wait a Day or two.
When I read Meeko’s posts, it’s like I’m looking at the bastard offspring of my “I’m just an aggressive townie!” persecution complex and Peeker’s trademark “incoherence for victory!” plan.
Come on, people. Meeko’s a spaz, but he’s not really acting that scummy thus far.
Also, assuming a worst-case scenario vis-a-vis our illustrious game designer’s “No comment” to my query, I will be analyzing the everloving crap out of voting patterns from here on out with the assumption that scum can talk at all times.
Look at that list Story posed again. Of the first 25 listed, at least 20 of them are definate Town names. The Freighter and Other folk are almost certainly where our scum names are drawn from. If there are Third Party/PFKs in this game the last list is a likely place for them. Now obviously no one is going to claim Ben or Goodwin or Ethan. That’s fine. Assuming a random order(which is the ONLY way a mass claim like this could or should be done), the scum are going to be faced with a choice. Either they claim a definite Town name like Jack or Kate or Sawyer(Hi meeko! I can’t say I’m surprised by that.) and risk being counterclaimed, which gives us a 1 for 1 trade(a good thing for Town at this stage), or grab one of the iffy names(Michael say, or Locke). The risk here is that we’ll probably lynch that person sooner or later anyways to be safe, not to mention there’s still the possibility of a counter claim which leads to a 1 for 1. Could two scum claim the same name, hoping to confirm one? Sure, but man that is horribly risky. If someone else has that name, it leads to a 2 for 1 trade, which is TERRIBLE for scum.
As for power roles, since I know people will keep bringing that up, think about it. What’s the best that say a detective can do? Confirm 3 or 4 people, maybe out a scum in the process? A successful name claim could easily confirm 8 or 9 people. Seriously, who cares about power roles then?
Telcontar: on the two meeko votes, it was two non-weekend players coming back, reading, and voting. Both of us had been able to read a bit over the weekend but not post.
We’ve been told that the power roles if any wouldn’t be very powerful. If we’re able to trade 1 for 1 on our power roles then we will be left with a straight vanilla game but have a massive numbers advantage over the scum. There is really only one way for Mahaloth to block the mass claim angle and it would be to scramble the roles. If the roles are scrambled then we haven’t hurt ourselves because the power roles will be as scrambled as the scum roles.
By the way I also have my name and alignment match.
**Vote Count:
Meeko(5) : Pedescribe, BillMC, AllWalker, Tom Scud, Oredigger,
Pedescribe(4) : Jimmy, Telcontar, CardinalFang, Meeko
Ichini(1): Chronos**
Certainly, losing a power role while bagging a Scum is a great trade for Town. But I am a little concerned about the effectiveness of the claim, that’s all. With Tom Scud, who I overlooked, we have 5/17 players confirming character/alignment agreement. I would like to see more people weigh in on this. Unless anyone can think of a reason why it would be a bad idea,
Could everyone please confirm whether your characters and alignments match, to the best of your knowledge?
On preview, I see Oredigger has name/alignment agreement. That is 6/17 now.
My name and alignment match.
I’m still not with the mass name claim idea, but I’m reading through the most recent arguments for it and I’m considering it in full.
Also, I’m still trying to catch up with the weekend posts. I hope (my work load willing) to have something more profound after going over them again.
This was post number 125, so chalk up one “maybe” among the role/alignment confirmations.
As I recall, Maha’s a fairly inexperienced Mafia player, and IIRC this is his first game to mod. So it’s entirely possible he left a big hole there for Town to exploit.
(And it isn’t a “Town wins automatically” strategy by any means - the scum can always claim names from way down the list, which could help Town to find them but would still leave them in a mixed group with at least some Townies.)