I think he just means the “You are a Survivor, this game’s version of town. You’re worried about the Others…” sort of thing. Nothing that the mafia couldn’t have figured out on their own, certainly not the cop/doctor/whatever’s role PMs.
In light of this change I’m strongly opposed to a name claim. We won’t catch any mafia in a blatant lie and we would be (potentially) exposing our own power roles. If I’m missing something I’d be happy to be corrected though.
As to your questions to the mod:
I’m guessing the scum had clearly scummy names and now they are being given (fake) clearly non scummy names they can use if they are asked (sort of like giving a spy a fake id).
Incidentally, I feel bad about voting Meeko, as I’m fairly sure he’s town. But I don’t see the case against Pede, either. So, given the new information that name-claiming was in fact such a pro-town idea that Mahaloth had to change the game, I think it’s worth looking back at Imaginary Fiend’s responses:
So in post #100, Imaginary Fiend comes out strongly against name-claiming, calling it “lining up likes lambs to the slaughter”.
In 104, he asks if it’s scummy to even suggest the idea, and suggests that Meeko thinks it is, so that the suggestion isn’t his idea.
129: backs off on “scumminess” once called on it, makes the claim that if duplicate names are given, there is no objective way to resolve which is which, as if trading 1 for 1 town for scum isn’t a good trade at this point in the game.
135: In response to my pointing out that a 1 for 1 trade is good:
206: thanks storyteller for the LOST info dump.
338: says name and alignment match, says:
Lacking anything else to go on, I’m going to unvote Meeko
and vote Imaginary Fiend
NETA: BTW, that’s all of Imaginary Fiend’s posts to this thread. Oh, except in 206 he also asks if people think listing voting preferences is a good idea.
OK, we’re getting down to 36 hours to end of day, so it’s time for a vote. This is something I noticed a while back, but sat on to see how it would play out. Nothing much else happened, though, so no need to hang on any longer. These two posts occurred after Meeko accused pedescribe on (IMO) ludicrous evidence, and pedescribe responded with essentially an OMGUS vote on Meeko.
That first quote is post 255, the second 272. So, in the space of 17 posts, telcontar went from reading pedescribe as “town,” though “slightly concerned,” to voting for him. Not much, of course, but it’s a start.
Vote telcontar
Tom Scud’s case against I. Fiend looks like it might have some legs, too. I’ll be interested to see Fiend’s response.
Fair enough. I think I’ve been pretty clearly lukewarm about the prospect of lynching pedescribe - I viewed it as the best case out there, which is different than believing it’s “solid” or “good.” My worry about him was more his (in my view) overreaction to meeko than anything else. In any event, I thought it was better to formalize my suspicion and at least get it out there. More recently I’ve become convinced that meeko is not mafia (thus not wanting to vote for him or unvote if that would aid his lynch) and have been actively looking for a better case than pedescribe. Imaginary Fiend had hit my radar as well and i’m planning to read him over in the morning.
I’m wondering what the mafia knew and when they knew it regarding these false identities.
Imagine a 5-player Star Trek Mafia. The original premise is that Captain Kirk and Mr. Spock have been murdered, and the remaining players need to find the murderer.
The players are:
Mr. Scott
Lt. Uhura
Mr. Sulu
Dr. McKoy
Khan
The players decide to do a mass name-claim, and Khan realizes (unless he’s lucky enough to go last) he’s scroooed, because he either (1) admits to his name (2) guesses a bridge crew name, in which case he’s very likely to be picked off as a duplicate or (3) goes for a name like Nurse Chapel or Yeoman Rand, in which case he’s likely to be picked off as a non-bridge crew.
Except the moderator intervenes and mails him an alias: You are Mr. Chekov.
My issue was with the fact that I claimed my Name already. I claimed that I was Town.
Both are true.
However, I honestly don’t have a read on the game entire right now, as to how votes will go if someone else claims James “Sawyer” Ford. Needless to say, I was wondering if it wouldn’t end up worse for me. The entire Anthony Cooper thing is a unique circumstance as well. I just wanted to make sure that I would not lose the honest ground I have here.
So I’m guessing something about your role has to do with Anthony Cooper. I’d caution you not to give away much more about this, unless you feel it will be directly and immediately useful.
In canon, Anthony Cooper was the deadbeat father of John Locke. He was a complete asshole, and he was a con-man. At some point, under the alias “Sawyer,” Cooper seduced James Ford’s mother and stole his father’s money. Little James’ father went crazy and killed his mother and then himself. Little James decided to devote his life to finding and exacting vengeance on “Sawyer;” eventually, James himself became a con-man and took on Sawyer’s name as a form of, I don’t know, self-flagellation. SPOILER ALERT: At some point, the Others brought Cooper to Locke and asked Locke to kill Cooper to prove his worthiness to lead the Others, or some such. Locke couldn’t do it himself, but through a variety of machinations revealed to “good” Sawyer that Cooper was “evil” Sawyer, and “good” Sawyer strangled Cooper to death.
Anyway, a few observations:
I think our moderator’s intervention strongly suggests that Meeko is Town (though nothing is certain). Mahaloth already indicated that he tried to match the color more or less with the alignments on the show; giving the Scum aliases post facto suggests that the name claim would have fucked things up because the Scum have evil names. Meeko has claimed Sawyer, a Town name, and has not been counterclaimed. Given these things, and given that Meeko claimed well before Mahaloth issued his proclamation, I suspect that: (1) he is Sawyer; (2) Sawyer is probably Town; and therefore (3) Meeko is probably Town. However, this is meta-gaming at its finest, so take it with whatever food additive seems best to you.
My name aligns with my alignment.
I disagree with the prevailing sentiment about Meeko. He reminds me a bit of Roosh; he says what he thinks, he has a lot to say, and discussing him is generating data that we will be able to analyze in future Days.
In that case, one of you would get lynched, and if that person ended up innocent, then the other one would be lynched, too. This is an excellent illustration of the principle that it’s OK for a townie to die, as long as it produces information: A swap of one Townie for one Scum is a good deal for Town, especially this early in the game. If you’re Town and someone claims the same name as you, you should be happy, because even though that makes it pretty likely that you’ll die, it also helps your team to win.
Meanwhile, Tom Scud, as I read it, your case against Imaginary Fiend is mostly that he opposed the mass-name-claim idea, no? That seems weak to me: Several other players opposed the idea, too (myself included), and I think it unlikely that we’d all be Scum.
My issue with Anthony was over figured out if my Role and Alignment matched. Reading what I had already, about two Sawyers, and that my Sawyer killed the other, I was unsure. – I had read the LOSTpedia but I wanted confirmation from other people. LOSTpedia is a wiki, so by its nature, it can not be confirmed 100%.
I don’t think I will have any more problems here.
Roosh, eh? Is there something with double vowels? I know of Peeker and Seeker, but, hey, lets throw in some double os as well.
But seriously, I do talk A LOT. and yes, I get lost in thoughts at times. – This is strictly better than the times where I work on something for a while, just to conclude a given. [I’m looking at you, medium hard Sudoku!]
On the surface level, I agree with your assesment here, Story, but then again, that is to be expected. But, Outside of Mafia, I would still agree to your assesment. You really hit the nail on the head here, in a good way.
Chronos I agree with your assessment. Thankfully, this is not the case currently. I dug myself a hole.The change in the rules here, regarding scum aliasses put me on edge. I thought it would prove to be a threat to my name claim. I don’t think this will be a problem.
Well, it seems name claiming would have broken the game, but now that has been fixed. It could still semi-confirm a few people as Town, but not out anyone as Scum. Useful, but probably not worth it.
I count 8 who were at least initially opposed - but IF was very early to the opposition party, and most of the other opponents were much more diffident, and nobody except paul (and Meeko) used the kind of emotive language IF did (100: “lambs to the slaughter” or, even more so 135: “A 50% chance of catching one or two scum who go the visible route will be cold comfort to all our power roles who will face NK after NK. God help us if we face this proposition for two scum claiming false names and we choose wrong the first time for both of them.”)
Plus in 104, he seems to be trying to both (a) suggest Nanook is scummy for suggesting the idea while maintaining deniability and (b) wind Meeko up.
Oh, and paul despite opposing the name-claim fairly viscerally also came up with the very useful name-alignment matching trick.
Anyway, it’s not a great case, but it’s day 1, and it’s better than any other I’ve seen.
Anyone who, over the entire show, was one of the crash survivors but never helped out the Others would be a pretty sure bet that they were Town. It’s no guarantee, but I would consider anyone in that catagory “semi-confirmed” ie, probably Town.
Not having watched the show beyond S2 I couldn’t name specific characters, but if the issue came up a quick search would find out details like this.