Lost Mafia/Werewolf/Psychopath

Chronos:

I’m trying to write down what I mean to say, but I keep getting lost. This is over simplistic, but I need to ask;

Lynch Cardinal or Chitwood.

If they are scum, vote the next player in the same line.

That’s the easy part.

**If they are not scum. **

Are we forced to vote for the second in line, of the ““opposite”” line ? [That is, if we are wrong on Cardinal, do we then vote Diver? If wrong on Chitwood, do we then vote Telcontar?]

Or, if we are wrong on Cardinal, are we forced to vote Chitwood? And vice versa?

Not forced either way. It’s a decision you have to make at some point no matter what order you go in.

Remember, those scenarios are not guarantees, anyway.

Storyteller, Don’t comment here. But, investigate tonight, regardless.

yay!

I think we can both agree, that you would object to the plan as Chronos gave it. Town or Scum, you kinda have to reject it, on some level.

Basic fact.

Also, basic fact that that As Zeriel, as you, real verbal on hating me. :dubious:


Can we re-run Allwalkers Breadcrumbs back over again, with Zeriel dead?

storyteller knows what he’s doing, I imagine, but if he doesn’t comment before the end of night he’ll probably never get the opportunity to do so.

Chronos didn’t give a plan. And why would it be a basic fact that I have to object to it?

**I am fairly sure his power doesn’t work that way. **

FWIW :: If Scum get all WIFOM on me. FOS Chitwood.

Just for goofs, what’s the reason for that?

Godspeed, Jimmy. :smiley:

And another thing: woot!

Although I see my back has sprouted a bullseye :).

Jimmy, are you really that thick?

You would not object to me voting you?

First of all, I’m assuming the five possibilities I listed are genuinely the only ones possible. In any other scenario, the Scum have actually been doing a better job of Scum-hunting than the Town has. Given that, my planned course of action (which, of course, nobody else is obligated to follow) is thus: First, lynch either cardinal_fang or Jimmy Chitwood, since it looks like at least one of them is Scum. If that person comes up Scum, then either USCDiver or Telcontar (depending on which one we started on) is cleared, and any of the other three could be the last Scum and we’re back to the good old fashioned methods. If either cardinal_fang or Jimmy Chitwood comes up Town, then the other one has to be Scum, and any of the remaining three could be Scum and again we’ve used up the information the program can give us.

Whew! Of all the days to have to leave for work at 11:30am! I’m glad you guys got it right, too of course!

I’m looking sideways at Telconter now for casting a deciding vote on Zeriel (trying to gain some last minute Townie cred?) and at Scuba_ben for trying to abstain with less than 4 hours left in the Day.

I’m still looking at the three players who all posted identical role PMs within minutes of each other. I know some of you aren’t as convinced, but I definitely see a situation where the Scum are over on their scummy scum board discussing whether or not to all post the same, previously used Vanilla PM or to use the one that Mahaloth gave them. Then all coming over to the main thread and posting the same PM a few minutes apart. We know that Zeriel was scum and he was the first of the three. So in addition to Telconter I’m also keeping my eye on cardinal_fang

To summarize my situation Yesterday leading to my attempt to abstain:

I was at a DopeFest all weekend, and traveling home all of Monday.
I had a community group meeting Tuesday.
So by the time we got to Wednesday, I had done barely more than skim the Day.
And on Day 2, I had drawn heat from two players (one of whom is now known to be Scum) for casting votes for weak reasons.
Hence my comment: TANJ.

Looking over Chronos’s results, and attempting to interpret #1776 properly, I find an interesting point: There are no probable scenarios in which USCDiver and myself are both Scum – although there exist scenarios in which we are both Town.

I think on around Dawn, I’ll cast an initial vote on a coin flip between Jimmy and cardinal_fang. It’ll be a more sound vote than I had Yesterday, that’s for certain.

On second thought, a coin flip is manipulable. ISTR that there exist online dice rollers that provide authentication of what was actually rolled. Does anybody have a recommendation?

1.) I’m not sure how it is suspicious to cast the deciding vote to kill a mafia member. Wouldn’t the mafia be better off if **Zeriel **was alive? I agree with you that scuba is suspicious, though, given that he cast a late vote in favor of sparing someone now known to be scum.
2.) Chronos asked for the remaining PMs. we all gave them. The coincidence in timing is due to something called “morning.” Happens fairly regularly, as I understand it. Oh, one note: my PM is different than cardinals, so it’s really weird that you’ve been making a point of how it’s suspicious that they are all identical.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11333135&postcount=1650
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11333155&postcount=1653

I’m reluctant to put much faith in an algorithm, mostly because I think we may be kicking ourselves about some incorrect implicit assumption come game-end. It looks, however, like other people are buying into it so I’ll be forced into a choice between cardinal and Jimmy. I don’t have especially warm fuzzy feelings about either - so I don’t object to this too much - but I don’t think either would otherwise be my top suspicion (probably scuba). Gives me a bit of a problem.

Vote analysis:
There were three players (excepting story) that could not have done more to save** Zeriel**. They are: **Scuba **and Cardinal, who voted to kill **diver **and stuck with that until the end, and **diver **himself, who couldn’t save **Zeriel **except by dying himself (whether it’s worth counting **diver **here is debatable, but lets include him for completeness). Given such a close final vote (5-4), I think it would be really odd if the mafia would have voted to kill **Zeriel **at the end if they had another option. With all the last minute vote switching we’ve seen thus far, how suspicious would it really have looked for one person to change sides the last morning? Coupling suspicion of those three with Chronos’s results, I’d think cardinal for tomorrow.

Generally though:
We have only one remaining free mistake (assuming traditional game math). Are we really comfortable betting the game on at least one of **Jimmy **and **Cardinal **being scum?

It’s suspicious to me because I know I’m town and if I had been the one to die, the other players would have come after **Zeriel **tomorrow and those who tried to protect him. I’ve seen it time and time again that a scum will jump on a scum bandwagon at the last minute, even if the vote is close, in order to gain townie cred. If Zeriel had not died Yesterday but then was lynched Tomorrow they can point back and say “But I voted for him 2 Days ago, I can’t possibly be Scum!”

Unless all three of you live in the Far East, 10:15pm, 10:38pm and 10:48pm EDT are not in the morning.

Ok fine, you’re isn’t identical to cardinal_fang’s, but I noticed you weren’t as quick to compare yours to known scum, Zeriel’s

The Parting Thoughts of John Locke

In about 90 minutes, I won’t be in this game anymore. Figure I’d best get everything I can out before then, even though I lack a huge amount of time right now. First, a disclaimer: when I’m dead, there will be a tendency to attach significance to my final thoughts not attached to the rest of my posts because I’ll be a dead, confirmed Town Detective. Please do not do this. I know no more than I did before, and I have never received a reading on anyone.

Now, then. Gamestate. The following are the players that will be alive come Dawn, and their role claims:

Meeko - James “Sawyer” Ford - VIGILANTE
Chronos - Michael Dawson - VANILLA
Telecontar - Ana Lucia Cortez - VANILLA
Scuba_Ben - Charlie Pace - VANILLA
Jimmy Chitwood - Rose Nadler - VANILLA
USCDiver - Daniel Faraday - VANILLA (changed role PM)
cardinal_fang - Claire Littleton - VANILLA

Seven players, most likely 5-2 in favor of Scum. If you mislynch toMorrow, it goes to 4-2. Meeko is killed that Night (3-2), and the last three Townies will have to root out the last remaining Scum on the subsequent Day. You will have one, and only one, mislynch to burn.

Observations:

  1. I am extremely suspicious of USC Diver and think he should be lynched. I have reviewed some of my reasons previously: notably, he is the only unknown player to have voted for Meeko Day One (all of the others are Town). The action of yesterDay suggests at least the possibility of two Scum on the block (if Diver is Scum, by the way, the odds that Telecontar drew attention to himself by pinballing around to get one Scum lynched over another go way down). One more observation about Diver, related to the name claims, of all things.

We have caught two Scum. Of them, one has had a cover role from the Fuselage Survivors (Boone Carlyle) and one from the Tail Section Survivors (Mister Eko). We have one dead Townie whose role was neither of the above; this Townie was a Frieghter-rider (Miles Straume).

Of all the players who have claimed or died, only a total of two have claimed Tail Section names (Ana-Lucia [Telecontar] and Mister Eko [lying Zeriel]). A total of two have claimed Frieghter names (Miles [AllWalker] and Daniel [USCDiver]). Every other player has claimed a Fuselage survivor name.

Consider the way the game was likely developed, and the late addition of cover roles to the Scum. We can’t have certainty, but here’s what seems most plausible to me: Mahaloth initially designed the game with pro-Town roles drawn from all areas (from all seasons, he said explicitly). This would have included many Fuselage Survivors, and then at least one Tailie and at least one Frieghter-person. Then he was called upon to give cover roles to the Scum. My guess is that he assigned cover roles representative of the canon in roughly the same way that the real Town roles were. That is, at least one Scum cover from among the Tailies, and at least one from among the Frieghter folk.

If I am right about this, then Telecontar is Town (because Ana-Lucia is the only Tailie left claimed who wasn’t lying about it). The alternative is that the only two Tail Section survivors inserted into the game were both Scum. Possible? Certainly. Likely, probably not.

If I am right, then USC Diver is Scum. Miles was the real pro-Town Frieghter-person, Daniel is the cover. It’s an elegant design, one that makes sense. Also, again remember that of all the possible pairs of players who knew one another off-island, NONE were included in this game… other than Miles and “Daniel.”

This is all incredibly speculative. I find it compelling, and if I were going to be alive my vote would be on Diver within minutes of Dawn.

Two more points, to come under separate cover.

  1. I do not trust Chronos’ program, and suggest that using it to guide your approach in the Days to come is going to lead you into big trouble. There are two major problems with it: (1) Chronos is not confirmed. Can I say that again? Chronos is not confirmed. Chronos might be Scum. You must be alert to that possibility. If he is Scum, he and his mates, by their behavior, could skew the output of his application with ease. But even if Chronos is Town, there is the problem that 2) his assumption, while it sounds reasonable, is totally unfounded. Scum will vote for one another with glee, and Town will vote for other Town very frequently. The program is predicated on the assumption that Town will hunt Scum more effectively than Scum, but this is not true under the best of circumstances - the Scum know who one another are and are deliberately working to foul the record - and certainly not true when this underlying assumption was explicitly stated some days ago.

  2. I think Scuba_Ben is Town. I’m going to die toNight, so I no longer have to be worried about people thinking I’m snuggling. I have no specific reason for this - just a collection of subjective impressions from the course of the game.

My final list of players, in approximate order of how likely I think they are to be Scum (from Scummiest to least Scummy):

USCDIVER
CHRONOS
CARDINALFANG
JIMMY CHITWOOD
TELECONTAR
SCUBA_BEN
MEEKO

Cardinal and Jimmy are basically interchangable there. Good luck to all of you; this was fun.