If you’re reading my posts, NAF, then you know that I am entirely open to a Cookies lynch. I am still curious as to her reasons for not targeting Drain Bead last Night.
Again NETA:
I am fingering cookies as a Vamp because of her Vig claim. She can kill and still say “see I did that”
I am reading your posts, but I didn’t get the impression that a cookies lynch was where you were heading.
I do feel like we are the only ones playing the game right now, which is a weird feeling.
Also, a lot of this is only starting to click into place as I am writing it. It’s how I work. I saw something that made me fairly certain that Pollux was a wolf, and I posted that and moved my vote. Then I started thinking about the implications of that and other things started to fall into place.
S’how I roll. You get my thoughts roughly 15 seconds after I have them.
I believe you are underestimating the danger the Cabal poses - if you are not one.
Their win condition is achieved the moment that both the Werewolf and Undead factions are eliminated. Believe it or not, right now I am not comfortable lynching a Werewolf. Vampire, yes; eliminating the Undead means that the attrition rate slows and gives us more time to find the Cabal. But we have to eliminate the Cabal before wiping out both the other two factions.
If you think DarkCookies is our Vampire, then make a case.
Hell, she was my investigation target last night. Out of those remaining, her and Pollux have been the quietest unknowns (or at least unclaimed until today). I would fully support lynching her, but I want to know more about the Pollux / Peeker option as well. From what others have been presenting though, I’m not sure this leads to a cabalist, which is what I would prefer to target right now.
Cckerberos didn’t ask for a list of claimants. At least not in that post. Just asked for the last one, which I believe I mentioned somewhere. Also how hard would it be to make up a list. I would need to pick anyone who happened to be alive on any day that hadn’t claimed mason. What information does that provide? I can give you the list if you really wish. You were day 1’s choice, since I can never get a good read on you.
Furthermore, why would a vamp claim a role that would be outed before tomorrow. You think the Vamp can win that soon?
You might be right about me underestimating the Cabal. I am not really sure. I get a little excited when I think I have spotted scum and sometimes I don’t think other things through.
Here’s how I see it.
1)I agree with story’s earlier analysis of role likelyhood.
2)My feeling is that there are about 2 wolves left, 1 cabal and 1 vamp. I think everyone is onboard with these numbers. Maybe one more Cabal than that.
3)I know I am town, and on a gut level I know that 2 scotsmen in the game is wrong. It makes it too hard for the scum to win. So either Omi or Zsofia are lying.
- I am also 99% certain that there were not 2 vigs in this game. I am therefore 99% certain that cookies is lying.
5)I think I have found evidence that Pollux is likely a wolf. His lack of activity combined with other known wolves (I am assuming that DB is a wolf here) behavior in regards to his play is what makes me think this.
6)I think it is more likely that a vamp, a killing role, would claim vig than it is that cabal, a non killig role would. You have to sort of accept that 1-5 are ture for 6 this to make sense otherwise she could be a wolf. But I do not think that both she and pollux could be wolves.
Sound reasonable. Feel free to poke holes. I have been playing lazy for…a long time, and I may be missing something obvious.
I’m playing conservatively (for me) with a couple of impulsive shots from the hip in an attempt to actually use my powers while hopefully being lucky and unpredictable. Last Night I had only one set of conflicting assertions as to DB’s role, (Koldanar’s and OAOW’s) and talked myself out of targeting her because I did not consider that “fair evidence” at the time, and I didn’t want to push my luck.
Now NAF’s case of me being a Vamp consists solely of a premise that my claim is convenient for a Vamp to make. I’m not a Vamp, but I can’t really counter his case because a Vig claim would indeed be a convenient claim for me to make if I were a Vamp. All I can really say is that actual (as opposed to fictitious) convenience is a double-edged sword. Like how it is currently being used to advance a case against me.
Got anything else NAF? Or are you resting your case just on that?
I also agree with Mhaye that NAF’s position underestimates the threat of any surviving Cabal. Now why would someone want to do that?
Depending on how people feel about my decision to keep my Vig kill in my pants last Night, it looks like I might be heading to the noose or we might end up in a game of Who Do The “Trusted Townies” Find More Suspicious, with the surviving scum jockeying around for the most gain in where they take their respective stands.
I’ll concede he didn’t ask for a list; but he did ask for some information, a question which you completely ignored. You did not give a name and you did not say “I’ve already answered that.” That was your first post since the question was asked, and you blew it off.
Now you try and pass it of as “I answered it already.” Well you had not then, and you have not since.
That’s a fair point.
Because you were suddenly faced with a mass claim that had randomly stuck you first and had to come up with something quickly or look suspicious?
I’ve had a similar problem (in the last Conspiracy game I had to come up with a claim fairly quickly, because my brain was asleep at that point in the game) and the claim sucked.
In any case, I said I felt you were non-Wolf, non-Town. That does not equal undead, does it? It translates to “Undead or Cabal.” Your picking the faction in the weaker position (remember Cabal only need to eliminate Werewolves and the Vampire, while the Vampire needs to eliminate all bar one other player, a tall order for them without some help) as the example just adds fuel to my suspicion that you are a member of the other faction.
In fact, this pushes me to the point where I am comfortable enough to vote you.
Vote Hawkeyeop
Um, I am not. I am saying that I am fairly certain you are scum because I do not believe that there would actually be 2 vigs in the game amongst other things. I came to the conclusion that you were a vamp after I had decided that it was unlikely that you would be a third living wolf and that it was more likely for a role that can kill to claim vig than a role that can’t.
Your last post is smudge city my friend and full of all sorts of nice twists.
Stop it. You should at least play clean.
Apparently one man’s smear is another man’s case. I fail to see how you are also not a resident in Smear City if those are the rules you’re using.
We’re both saying “I don’t think there are two [insert other player’s claim here] in the game.”
You “fingered” me as the Vamp based on convenience, I ponder why someone who I already suspect as being scum would downplay the influence of the Cabal.
We’re both in an state where our abilities of proving our claims are limited. That doesn’t mean you don’t get held to the same level of scrutiny to which you are holding me.
And NAF thanks for the sentiments.
I also agree that there could be multiple roles of any flavor but no way that all remaining four that are in question. Because of that …
I too believe that two scots makes little sense. And the rest of the dopplegangers are all neck and neck (so to speak).
In order of most likely, in my opinion.
PO. His claim seems to conveniently timed. He manged to double up all the remaining roles.
cookie. Two vigs with all of our investigative roles seems like a lot of firepower.
NAFyteller. NAF was late on the trigger but story always makes me nervous. Sorry, but until we play on the same team you have me looking over my shoulder a lot.
I believe it to be in town’s best interest to lynch a non mason and let them do some more cross checking.
Going to re read and get a vote down since I will be unavaible tomorrow before the deadline.
Since the Witches investigated Storyteller on Night 1, and he came up Town, you can put your worry to rest on that score. That statement is subject to Storyteller not being the Omega Wolf, or holding a secret power that can spoof the Witch investigation, neither of which I consider very likely at the moment.
Nevertheless, you make a good point about it being better to hold off lynching Mason claimants. I’ll take this into consideration.
And total crap. Z should be second on the list. Two scots are highly unlikely and since ONK has at least been the only town to claim a secret power the scales of judgement tilt to his claim
That’s totally fine Cookies. Scrutinize all you want. I fully admit that I may be underestimating the danger of the Cabal. To me, at the moment, they seem like less of a threat because they can’t kill. Killers seem like more of a threat, but I may be wrong about that.
You didn’t make a case against me. I didn’t “finger you” as a vamp. I figure it is more than likely that you are scum of some type and if you are scum it is probable that you are a vamp since I think that Pollux is a wolf and that Drain bead is a wolf. It’s really a process of elimination game at that point.
But I have been trying hard to be transperant in my thought process. You on the other hand haven’t actually done much yet other than smudge me. Wanna take a second look at that post with me?
This is a false statement.
emphasis mine.
This is an OG definition smudge. You say something about me that SOUNDS bad, but is actually meaningless.
Uncalled for agression in the first sentence, and a smudge and a lie in the second. Makeing it seem like I am attacking you, when honestly I was spending more time thinking about pollux than anything. And implying that my reasoning is weak, without saying why. Show me how it is weak and we can talk.
You piggyback on MHayes trustedness without any real thoughts of your own and then smudge me again. I had already admited that I might be underestimating the Cabal threat.
But you know what, the point is moot if we arent’ going to lynch a scotsman toDay. I think my reasons for thinking the way I do are fairly clear. I am happy to lynch ANY of the scum I have indicated. Cookies, Pollux, Drainbead, Zsofia. Whoever. I think killing the Vamp or a wolf would be the preferable choice. I think cookies attacking me toNight would be preferable to lynching her because it would help confirm me. But if you all want me to move my vote back to Zsofia I am happy to do that too. Or we can lynch cookies and I am cool with that.
<Snipped>
First, what danger is there in claiming before the Nec is dead. The vamp can’t kill you and to an extent the wolves and cabal want you alive to potentially reduce the number of undead.
Second, I agree with story. Two Vicars make it much tougher for the undead to build their population quick enough to have a chance for victory.
Third, I do belive that ONK has claimed the town secret power. And oops I deleted the part where you said OAOW had the secret power.
Dude…do you read what you write? I don’t even know where to start. How about completely contradicting yourself in the same page.
The point I was making is indeed meaningful. A Vampire who claimed Vig at this stage in the game would be risking the very same case being brought against them that you are, in fact, trying to bring against me. Convenience as a double-edged sword: allowing a Vamp to claim his/her kills as Vig kills, but exposing themselves to scrutiny due to the convenience of being able to do so. In other words, if I were a Vamp, I would have incentive not to choose to claim Vig when there are other options on the table.
Your case against me that I’m scum, is two parts. That you don’t think there would be two Vigs, and that you think I’ve picked the Vig because I’m a vamp and it is convenient. Your cast that I am a Vamp is based solely on the convenience.
I’m not going to get into a game-balancing-get-inside-of-Pleo’s-head debate with you. I don’t really give a rat’s ass about balancing, which is why I play and don’t moderate and trust such activities to other people. That leaves your Vamp case, which is (all together now) based solely on convenience.
If “Got anything else NAF? Or are you resting your case just on that?” is your idea of aggression, there’s not much I can do about that.
And again, with the double-standard BS, how is my agreement with Mhaye any different than this:
Btw, it was post 2094 where PO referenced OAOW’s secret power.
Sorry, don’t do the link thingy worth a crud.
That’s a semantic argument. I used the phrase and then I said I didn’t. But if you look at the context me “fingering you as the vamp” has a totally different meaning in that context. It was an explination as to why I chose vamp instead of cabal or wolf. I picked you as scum generally for different reasons and stated them plainly.
Ok, this I misunderstood. Fair point, and I retract what I said on that argument.
I don’t know why you continue to not understand this. My case against you is NOT two parts. The bit about you being a vamp is so far into being secondary it almost doesn’t matter. If I am wrong about Pollux (always a possibility) then I think it would be equally likely that you are a wolf. You could be cabal too, I just find that less likely. What I am sure of is that you are scum of some flavor. At this point I don’t care because I fully expect you to attack me toNight.
Well then you throw out my whole case. But what I don’t get is why you are acting like I am persuing you. I’m not. You were entierly an afterthought until your post that was directed at me. I am open to the idea of lynching you, but I think we have better choices.
The difference is, I (in my opinion) took his ideas and built on them and added my own ideas to the mix. Not every idea has to be an original idea. You took MHaye’s idea and used it to smudge me. Also, storytellers idea was an idea that was solid and (atemptimg to be) factual, whereas MHaye was stating an opinion. And it was just that, an opinion. Story gave a senario I agreed with, MHaye tossed out an opinion on my feelings. You don’t see how this is different?
This paragraph doesn’t make any sense, which is a sign to me both that I am too tired from work to keep this up and that I am letting myself get baited by cookies, who has always been fairly good at baiting me. (See I can smudge too). 
One more try:
The I fingered you as a Vamp means something different in the context I used it in originally than in the context you used it in when I said that I didn’t do it. Let’s change my first phrase to “the reason I picked vampire for Cookies” and the second one to “cookies is a vampire.” This will help with claity.
Those two phrases have entierly different meanings.
That is what I was trying to say.
Again with the playing dirty Cookies. Semantic arguments aren’t good ones.