Mafia: Conspiracy 2: The Cabal Strikes Back! [Game Over]

The Game Room
1742

[QUOTE=Nanook of the North Shore]
No you aren’t Drain. We’re still several Days from losing to the Necromancer, and between now and then pretty much everyone will be gunning for him. I just don’t understand why you would claim as you did and then vote for DC. If you truly believe that necro hunting is the best thing town could do right now, why switch votes? Even if no one else in town agrees with you, you not switching isn’t going to hurt anything.

Of course, a Vicar claim with no pressure is the perfect scum move to make. Town will be hesitant to lynch you while the necro is still running around, the claim is practically impossible to confirm, and you have the perfect excuse when you survive the Night, since you can’t be Vamp’d and the Wolves have no reason to kill a Vicar. I especially liked that you made sure to bold the A part of your claim. Pre-emptively protecting against a coutner claim are we? Certainly gives me reason to give you the hairy eyeball.

On the other hand, since there is clearly a necro, there is almost certainly a Vicar. Decisions, decisions.
[/QUOTE]

I agree here. This was a terrible claim. Of course the Vicar’s #1 job is to try to stop zombification, but he’s got that second power that he can’t be killed by the Vampire. Assuming peeker is telling the truth, that second power is now rendered moot by this claim. Why the rush to claim? It makes no sense to me, and was IMO an anti-town play.

On the other hand, what does it gain peeker as a scum to claim now? He was under a little suspicion, but no votes. Also, the claim could explain why he has been so obsessed with the Necromancer.

On the whole, I am leaning toward a mis-step on this one, and will not place my vote on peeker right now.

1743

[QUOTE=cckerberos]
You are going to come back and explain this, right?
[/QUOTE]

Yes, later today, I promise. As many of you know the offboard game just started and things are a tad hellish over there orginazation wise. For those of you not involved I guess you are going to have to take my word for it. But it looks like things are settleing down and I should be able to actually be around toDay.

1744

[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
Cat, I’ve just done some high-speed re-reading, and I’m curious about some things:

  1. You have stated flatly that there is no Vigilante. At post #1617, you speculated idly that Redwing might have been a Vig who suicided, and otherwise suggested that you were giving credence to the idea of a possible Vig. What has changed since #1617 to change your mind so thoroughly.

  2. You claim to have leads on “several scum.” Just out of curiosity, were you planning to share those with us? Or is your one-line smudge at #1679 the extent of your “leads” on Zsofia and peeker?

Meanwhile, the case against Oredigger was frankly stupid. You want to fall back on that one, go ahead, articulate a reason to vote for him.

In fact, articulate a reason to vote for anyone, apart from vague smudges and investigation results we can’t trust.

And don’t give me that “you’re a better player than that” garbage. I stand by my statement; we have no good leads, because we’ve gotten lazy and let the power roles work for us, and now we’re on the verge of doing it again, but this time it’s suboptimal strategy.

The absence of a Detective counterclaim is the only thing keeping me from voting against you today. If there IS a Detective out there who knows Cat is lying, please at least consider countering; we’re basing 80% of our strategy on his say-so at this point, and he’s acting extremely squirelly as far as I’m concerned.
[/QUOTE]
Wow storyteller, you are stumped aren’t you. But then I am beginning to suspect more and more that you are the Omega Wolf instead of a Magician, so perhaps I should not be surprised. Given you always say my strategy and analysis is good, why are you complaining so much. You complain when I don’t and you complain when I do, make up your mind!

Anyway, I was thinking about game setup when doing the undead win cycle and then I remembered a conversation I had had about Game balance for this setup. If you want to call this meta-gamey, go ahead.

My current beginning setup thoughts are 16 Town, 7 Wolves, 6 Cabal, 2 Undead - Total 31 Players.

The biggest problem is game balance between the factions. Not so much the town/wolves/cabal but the undead, as they are horribly outnumbered.

However, a Vampire that is effectively un-Nightkillable can do pretty much what they like. They cannot be detected apart from the Witches (or Seer if one exists), so all they have to do is lie low and let the game pass. With a Vigilante, the possiblity of being Night killed exists. Also the undead do not win by having everyone killed off quickly, they win by accumulation of corpses which takes several Days. A steady supply of bodies is far more appealing than several up front and none later on. The other thing to note is that the Undead will not have been nearly as affected by the changes in Secret powers. In the last game nearly everyone had one, in this one, it is one power per side. So most factions lose several, but the undead only lose one, bringing the balance closer together.

In terms of Night Kills, my thoughts are:

Night 1: One Vampire, 1 Wolf, 1 unknown (Likely secret role power)
Night 2: One Wolf, Vampire either blocked or did not Kill
Night 3: One Wolf, One Vampire

Yes, this is different to my previous thoughts on the matter, but this situation best fits what I know about the game as it stands. And I am not going to stay fixed to a single idea if I think the facts do not fit it.

As for smudges on other people, I will put the full cases together when I get a chance, although if you had read up on me, you would have noticed post #1278.

As for “better player than that” - you throw that in my direction often enough, so I will hurl it straight back. If you have gotten lazy looking for scum, doesn’t mean the rest of us have.

Oh, and I really think **DiggitCamara ** should be lynched because I not only think he is a Wolf, but I also think that a Wolf was killed last Night, putting them down to 4 remaining. Losing **DiggitCamara ** would really start to put them out of the game. Especially if the Detective, which you know I am, can identify more Wolves.

Any other questions storyteller, or do you feel like getting started in this game.

1745

There’s about 24 hours left in the Day. Anyone with Day-use powers who wants to use them, needs to let me know before the Dusk. And we still have several players on the mod-kill list for not voting. Don’t forget, I love killing off players. :slight_smile:

1746

[QUOTE=Zsofia]
Town can lynch scum every single time and still lose. It’s not just a matter of lynching scum - we have to lynch the RIGHT scum, and they have to help by stepping in and killing one another while we’re at it.
[/QUOTE]

This is all true, though in all likelyhood if town lynches perfectly we will win. We had a similar situation in the offboard game. There we had an admitted anti-town element. Instead of taking the lynch that was given, the town decided to try to lynch someone it found more evil. We ended up lynching a cop.

If our options were lynch an undead or lynch a wolf, then I would certainly choose to lynch the undead. Those aren’t our options though. We do not have any good leads as to who the undead might be. So our options are kill the likely wolf or take a wild shot in the dark. Now, there are times where wild shots are necessary. This isn’t one of them. The undead aren’t anywhere close to winning. Better to lynch likely wolf now, and make a better educated guess at the undead in a future day.

1747

[QUOTE=CatInASuit]
Wow storyteller, you are stumped aren’t you. But then I am beginning to suspect more and more that you are the Omega Wolf instead of a Magician, so perhaps I should not be surprised.

[/quote]

There’s a stunner. Who would have thought that you’d offer reciprocal suspicion of the only player in the entire game who hasn’t bought your role claim hook, line, and sinker? Any reasons, apart from me not agreeing with you, for this?

You have done very little real strategizing or analyzing in this game. You have made grand pronouncements and substituted them for analysis. You have pronounced that there is no Vig, and that X, Y, and Z are scummy, and expected everyone to consider that analysis. And it’s not.

So… wait. You have decided on the initial composition of the game. There is no real evidence that your suggested composition is fair or reasonable. Notably, I see no reason to expect that there are only two undead. You might be right, but there are at least a dozen viable game constructions that would be balanced.

Then, you are building a case for the “No Vig” theory that simply assumes that your suggested game construction is correct, and then you are expecting everyone else to just nod and smile and say, yes, yes, that must be correct, surely CatinaSuit has divined, perhaps via direct communication with the gods, the exact composition of the game and his conclusions based on that must be accepted?

That’s silly and sloppy.

Your reasons in post #1278 are lame. You throw suspicion on Oredigger based on what the situation may be “if pedescribe is Cabal as he stated.” This was not the case, and yet you refer to this argument to back your suspicion of him now. You’re worried about peeker pulling his vote off of pedescribe, positing that pedescribe might have been a bomb; also proved to be not true, yet you refer back to this argument now. No mention whatsoever of Zsofia. You also were suspicious of DiggitCamara.

The below is bolded because it’s external to this argument, and I don’t want it to get missed:

Here’s a point in favor of Diggit being a Wolf. If Cat is really a Detective, it would stand to reason that Diggit would be used as a killer by the Wolves; if Cat catches him, well, Cat was on to him anyway. Minor, but worth noting.

You know what? Town or Scum, right now you’re just being a dick. So far, the only thing I’ve seen from you is a bunch of one/two-line smudges and feeble promises to come back for more. Maybe you might want to think about your own approach before you accuse others of being lazy. And stop being a dick, whatever your alignment.

Disagree, but I’ll explain why in a subsequent post.

:rolleyes:

1748

Gut reaction to Cat’s post…2 undead seems pretty low as starting numbers, especially considering that this game was touted as “bloody” and we’ve had at least one Night with 3 bodies. Seems like the chances of both Undeads getting taken out before the game even gets going are (while small) significant enough to give them at least one more cold body to start with.

I don’t have much of a gut reaction as to his other numbers, but I do have a reaction to the last few exchanges involving Cat and story, and that is “noisy”. Assuming for a moment that they’re both claiming truthfully, we’d have two town power roles in a slap-fight of personal opinion. Not an outlandish assumption to make based on my experience with past games. If either player (or perhaps both of them) are lying about his claim, slap-fights of personal opinion are not, imho, going to go very far toward swaying public opinion. Ideally, confirmable evidence does that.

As for what to do with Diggit, I have not been able to shake the hunch that he’s a wolf. While I understand and agree with all of the reasons why we don’t necessarily need to lynch him toDay, those reasons either require another target or no-lynch. I don’t think we’re going to (safely) rally to another target at this point, unless something unexpected happens, and I don’t want a no-lynch.

So:

Vote Diggit

1749

[QUOTE=CatInASuit]
The other thing to note is that the Undead will not have been nearly as affected by the changes in Secret powers. In the last game nearly everyone had one, in this one, it is one power per side.
[/QUOTE]

Wait just one cotton picking minute. We almost lynched Nanook on Day One for making what was probably a legit slip about powers, and here you go saying you know there’s one power per side?

1750

One thing about CatInASuit’s recent posts caused be to raise an eyebrow.
[QUOTE=CatInASuit]
Oh, and I really think **DiggitCamara ** should be lynched because I not only think he is a Wolf, but I also think that a Wolf was killed last Night, putting them down to 4 remaining. Losing **DiggitCamara ** would really start to put them out of the game. Especially if the Detective, which you know I am, can identify more Wolves.
[/QUOTE]

The emphasised phrase is quite astonishing. He is claiming that one of the deaths on Night 3 was that of a Werewolf. We had two deaths last Night; Dotchan and HockeyMonkey. (Redwing was not killed on Night 3, so he can’t be who CIAS was referring to.)

How does he know that?

CIAS you can’t just come out and make a statement like that without some grounds for it. Which one do you believe was the Werewolf, and why?

1751

[QUOTE=Zsofia]
Wait just one cotton picking minute. We almost lynched Nanook on Day One for making what was probably a legit slip about powers, and here you go saying you know there’s one power per side?
[/QUOTE]
CIAS knows this because the rules say that each side has a secret power.

That, at least, he has grounds for.

1752

CIAS, I’m not sure if you’re starting to stink to high heaven or if you’ve just gone over the high side.

1753

[QUOTE=MHaye]
CIAS knows this because the rules say that each side has a secret power.That, at least, he has grounds for.
[/QUOTE]

Aaah, I see. I missed that part.

1754

[QUOTE=MHaye]
One thing about CatInASuit’s recent posts caused be to raise an eyebrow.

The emphasised phrase is quite astonishing. He is claiming that one of the deaths on Night 3 was that of a Werewolf. We had two deaths last Night; Dotchan and HockeyMonkey. (Redwing was not killed on Night 3, so he can’t be who CIAS was referring to.)

How does he know that?
[/QUOTE]

Not only does he “know” that, he “knows” there is no vigilante. WTF?

1755

[QUOTE=ShadowFacts]
Not only does he “know” that, he “knows” there is no vigilante. WTF?
[/QUOTE]

Far be it from me to defend the dude who’s called me lazy and gone out of his way to insult me, but, before this gets out of hand:

If CatinaSuit is lying, where is the counterclaim? The absence of one makes it impossible for me to justify a vote for Cat, barring one of his investigations proving utterly false.

1756

Would it be absolute madness to suggest that perhaps we have no Detective?

1757

[QUOTE=Zsofia]
Would it be absolute madness to suggest that perhaps we have no Detective?
[/QUOTE]

Not madness, no, I guess not. Hm.

1758

After reading through the Day all at once (sorry, real life still an issue, but the wedding I’m in is this weekend) – unfortunately I don’t see any other good candidates. I do agree that the three votes for Hawkeye were utter bunk – that’s the only thing that jumped out at me toDay – which makes me even surer that we should

vote Diggit

I’ll take an 80% chance, Story, even though strategically it’s not ideal. It’s better than lynching a townie and I think it’s our best shot.

1759

[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
Far be it from me to defend the dude who’s called me lazy and gone out of his way to insult me, but, before this gets out of hand:

If CatinaSuit is lying, where is the counterclaim? The absence of one makes it impossible for me to justify a vote for Cat, barring one of his investigations proving utterly false.
[/QUOTE]

And while I agree with this at the 30k foot level I am beginning to have a real problem with CIAS.

Point in favor, no conflicting role claim.

Point against, why is he still alive with a confirmed witch? I know that it’s WIFOM but jeez talk about some lucky blocks with two targets available.

Second point against, his ragging my ass and his seemingly PKS about the lack of a vig. No OMGYS but I can se where Darden and Cochrane were convinced of their respective sides’ correctness and the obtuseness of the other side to see their point of view. I make CIAS to be cast in the Cochrane role.

If role claim sucked, so be it. It gives the town another confirmed, that if I am offed leads directly to a killer.

And I certainly would take a chance on a non DC lynch if there is some concensus. Hal or Hawk would be targets that I could get behind.

I’ll take the chance that DC is wolfie and needs an easy target. However, if that is the game wolf is playing then story would be long gone, as well. They actually kind of need me on the reomote chance that I block a zombification.

And to the clowns that inferred anything with the a reference read the FUCKING PESKY RULES.

On top of that read how other claimed roles have quoted there PMs.

Sheesh.

1760

And one more minor point. I know that RL influences our participation. Some are weekday posters, some weekend and some in between. I know that during the workweek I am limited to the evenings during the but on the weekends am pretty much around since I don’t have a life. It’s the folks that conveniently fly under the radar 24/7 but then show up when called that make me suspicious.

I hear some ominous organ music for Hawk and Hal.

1761

I, for one , don’t find the votes against me remotely suspicious. I don’t think the voters (other then Peek) wanted me lynched, just to participate more, which is perfectly understandable. Not all votes are to cause lynches, some merely allow for better responses to gauge players.

[QUOTE=peekercpa]
And one more minor point. I know that RL influences our participation. Some are weekday posters, some weekend and some in between. I know that during the workweek I am limited to the evenings during the but on the weekends am pretty much around since I don’t have a life. It’s the folks that conveniently fly under the radar 24/7 but then show up when called that make me suspicious.

I hear some ominous organ music for Hawk and Hal.
[/QUOTE]

Do you have any evidence that lurkers are more likely to be scum then town? It seems like I have this argument every game. Sure scum want to fly under the radar, but not posting at all isn’t flying under the radar. It gets you attention. What doesn’t is posting a lot but saying little. Furthermore, town power roles have as much reason to fly under the radar as scum.