That is the way I understand my role, yes.
So you are basically a super-doc. I mean, yeah, you have limited charges, in theory. In practice, though, it’s about 50/50 whether a doc in any given game actually has a successful protection. Two is very rare. More than two is almost unheard of. So the first ability is more or less a full doc.
Add to that the automatic self-protection, and that’s a very, very powerful role. Those two components are worth 6 points. The second shell is just gravy, although let’s note that it the self-protection makes it more likely to come into play. Call it 6.5 points on my scale.
So there’s two conclusions I can draw here. The first is that I would not expect there to be a normal doc plus your role in this game. Too much protection. We think pedescribe was protected n1 from Blam, but we only have his word on that, and I don’t know how much credence I really give that. There’s other possibilities, like the masons have a collective one-shot immunity, or Blaster was roleblocked, or something. On the flip side, if you’re lying, then we most probably HAVE a full doc role in the game. I’m not really looking for a doc to counter claim here, but if one did, that would seal the deal that one of you would be lying. The fact that you have not been counterclaimed lends some credence to you being truthful, though, simply because I’d kind of expect a true doc to have already countered.
Conclusion #2: In the absence of a counter claim, we can test you pretty easily. Since you auto-protect, it’s simple enough to have a vig take a shot at you. This has the bonus that in the event of you being truthful, you get powered up to the second shell. Of course, this assumes that we have a vig. If a vig claims today, great. They shoot at you tonight, and we find out in the morning if you’re dead, or being at least somewhat truthful. This should work even if the mafia try to take out the vig, assuming that everything gets processed more or less simultaneously. And, of course, MHaye can protect the vig as well as himself, making it a very dicey proposition to try and interfere. Or a vig could choose to remain silent today, and decide on their own whether to test MHaye tonight. With the scum roleblocker dead, I don’t know what they’d have left to mess with the plan, but sometimes better safe than sorry.
Short version: I have doubts about MHaye’s veracity, but we’ve got at least two ways to find out without lynching him. And if he’s on our side, then it’s an insanely good weapon for us.
I didn’t really expect to say this, but Mhaye rationale makes sense. It isn’t exactly how I would have played it, but his actions are at least credible as a townie. The thing that makes me lean towards trusting him is the delay on night’s end. There was something that the rules didn’t deal with. I’m guessing some situation like an unstoppable kill vs a doctor with no given limitations. This fits Mhaye’s statements. I’m thinking Story had trouble telling whether or not the kill should go through, because Mhaye should stop any kill, but it was an unstoppable kill. Unless anyone else comes up with a good reason why the night was delayed, I’m going to trust Mhaye.
Oh and I’m very much against a mass claim. No need to give the scum information that we don’t have to. The gain for town at this point is much less than the gain for scum.
I forgot the one-fifth dead people killer Cookies got information about. If that is a separate role, we have less vanilla (or maybe only three masons). It could be a power of the vigilante type (killed N1, nothing N2 for Night lynch test, N3 killed off bufftabby, N4 communicated with Cookies, N5 ?).
Note that I’m listing this information to compare against a mass-claim with what I expect. Please don’t tell the actual number of masons, etc until after we actually did the mass claim (if we do it).
bufftabby could have blocked Night One, but the odds of her targeting Blaster Master aren’t that great. The second part is the reason why I think a mass-claim would shed more light on MHaye, because we can compare it to the other protective powers we have. I’m not sure a doctor would counter-claim on his own.
If we openly plan a test hit on MHaye, scum could gamble and hit him too. Depending on how Story resolves the actions, either the scum or the vigilante could die. It a big gamble though.
But if scum had an unstoppable kill, why not take out MHaye? Asking the question I see the answer myself: Cookies survived Blaster Masters kill attempt. Can scum use the powers of one-fifth dead ones? I earlier said we weren’t sure about macey’s powers, but now that I think on it again: he wasn’t the tough guy type, because he didn’t survive the lynch.
But also not too dead to use his power?
But if scum had an unstoppable kill, why not take out MHaye? Asking the question I see the answer myself: Cookies survived Blaster Masters kill attempt.
NETA: Or MHaye is scum of course.
The response to my query was, in summary, that I have been told all the essential elements of the role at the start of the game, If any changes had been made to my role as a result of in-game events since the start of the game, I would have been told.
It follows that my failure to detect DarkCookies leaving the cabin was not a result of my role.
Two other possibilities. They could be hoping we take care of Mhaye for them. Also, the “unstoppable kill” might have been only usable on Cookies. Perhaps it was related to the dreams.
I think we need to be careful about the amount of time we spend guessing what happened last night and the amount of time we spend hunting scum. I know that if we can determine what really happened last night, it’ll help us decide on MHaye. But we’re not going to be able to.
As far as MHaye goes, we have to choose between two scenarios:
- MHaye, townie redneck, IDs **Cookies **as super-power town, targets her for protection and has his power fail just as the scum decide to kill her (or because the scum decide to kill her in a super-special way.)
- MHaye, scum, kills Cookies. Either because she’s been identified as a burgeoning power role, or because she’s a confirmed town and the next best kill after NAF.
One of these scenarios has the benefit of simplicity. However, we know that something non-simple happened. It’s been suggested that this supports MHaye because **story **would have had to balance out different types of protection/kill. Another explanation is that the complications arose because of Cookies, the vanilla who wasn’t so vanilla anymore. From that role description, and from the colour, it’s possible that the conflicting powers weren’t **MHaye **vs scum but rather **Cookies **vs scum.
All in all, I’m going with the simple option - keeping my vote on MHaye.
For just now - I’m going to look over at least one other person in detail. Can I suggest that everyone else, especially those who aren’t voting MHaye, strongly consider doing that rather than waiting for scum to do something blatant today? We’ve got a fairly narrow pool - let’s work on it.
It’s not unbelievable that scum might have a one-time unstoppable night kill (as a matter of fact, IIRC as the Godfather in Blade Runner, ALL of my NKs were guaranteed to go through if I were the one to make the kill), but it does seem rather suspiciously convenient that mhaye’s power failed when he claims to have protected DarkCookies.
Question: Would the people currently oppose a mass claim still do so if we just required the vanilla’s to claim “Vanilla”, without making the Alpha/Beta distinction?
Yes, but Mhaye claimed a Cookies protection after the fact. He didn’t need to do that.
Yes. Vanillas claiming vanilla lets the scum focus on killing power roles.
Um…with all due respect, that makes no frickin’ sense. If the scum had an unstoppable kill, that means it’s unstoppable. As in, can’t be stopped. And the flavor of MHaye is very much a garden-variety protection. MHaye’s claimed role is in no way supernatural. If the Deadites had some sort of supernatural scum kill, there is absolutely no reason that MHaye’s protection should have affected it.
Here’s my guess–Cookies started vanilla, and gained abilities each night, one by one. One of them was the 1/5 player burning power–which is how she found out about the danger unintentionally posed by Hawkeyeop. One night, she gained partial bulletproofing, able to fend off Freddie. Last night, she gained some sort of bombing role, able to cut through any sort of invincibility on the killing–the same night scum used their super-secret-invincible kill on Cookies. The question was–did the killing scum die in the process, or not?
Well, we know what happened after that.
Well, obviously it was not as simple as unstoppable kill. It was a kill vs a stop where it was unclear which should go though. That is the most logical explanation, and Mhaye’s claim fits it perfectly.
You mock my theory, and that is what you come up with? That is pretty convoluted.
Apologies.
I’m just confused with MHaye’s claimed role, is all. If it was an ordinary kill, it should have been stopped. If it was a super-kill, why was MHaye even a possible obstruction? We’re both confused, but we’ve gotten different things from it. I think MHaye’s even less likely to be telling the truth. You think it makes sense for MHaye. I can sorta see where you’re coming from now.
And my theory came from this line:
Man, it got quiet quick.
Storyteller, could we get a list of who’s still in the game?
Color bleached by me.
Vote Almost Human
I’m not just piggybacking on Pedescribe’s case here. His points are valid and gave me reason to look closer at Almost Human. But, that’s not the only reason why I voted for her.
She never came back to adress Pedescribe’s suspicion. Instead, she didn’t reply at all and it seems that this was forgotten about. I’d like to hear her side of it. So, this is more of a “wanting an explanation” vote than an “I’m convinced you’re scum” vote.
From Special Ed’s list:
Masons
*pede
*Hockey
Naf confirmishified
*Total Lost (not a Deadite, according to Cookies)
Claimed
*MHaye Scotsman/doc of sorts
*zeriel Vanilla
*dotchan Vanilla
In the pool
*brewha
*Nanook
*JSexton
*Millit
*Almost H
*Rapier
*Natlaw
*special ed
*amruss
I think you missed this:
I’m against a mass claim.
I really don’t see an advantage to outing our power roles. We’ve got two confirmed Masons. If either of them get night killed, we still have one that can confirm the rest as needed. For that reason, I don’t think there’s much advantage for scum to target either of them.
Mhaye is most likely safe from night attack as well. Because either he has a shotgun to protect himself and the scum now know it, or because he is scum himself.
So, right now, I think we’re doing pretty well to keep scum in the dark. Outting power roles would help scum much more than hurt them, IMHO.
Also, if we have a vig, I think Mhaye would make a perfect target tonight. Unless I’m mistaken, his first shot is just a warning. So a vig attack on Mhaye would not put our vig in any danger (assuming Mhaye is telling the truth) and would end up more or less confirming Mhaye either by his death or his ability to scare off the vig.
He’d still retain a shot and the ability to protect if he’s alive in the morning.
On preview:
No, I saw that Total Lost. But that was posted more than a few days ago (4 iirc). I figured it was a good time for a reminder.
I’m back.
I have a monster of a re-read in front of me, I don’t know that I’ll have an informed vote by the end of Day tomorrow.
My gut instinct is to vote amrussell, but I scanned enough to see the claims flew fast and furious, so I’m going to do my best to get that reread done.
I’m also against a mass claim
My first reason is:
This game has so many strange power roles that we might not be able to make the usual “two claimed cop let’s lynch and get scum for power role”. If we look at the power roles we have seen so far… I’m not sure I would have believe NAFs role in a mass claim (or DiggitC’s for that matter).
I’m not sure Dotchan has worked out the numbers right. To me it all looks like a lot of guesswork - that’s my second reason.
And Brewha since I play with Almost on FB-mafia I know she is still on that chair in the window sill 