If they say, what will that tell you? What if they say no? Will you want to lynch them in either situation?
Yes, Thank you.
I didn’t think it was cryptic .
What’s to avoid? What is there to say? I’m hardly ‘avoiding’ anything, but what you decide to do about cultists is pretty much up to people who are not me.
I haven’t been investigating. I have no idea who the hidden three cultists are, and my attempt to read breadcrumbs turned out to be scum. I can’t make the other cultists claim, and quite frankly with all the saber rattling, I don’t blame them one bit for keeping quiet.
What part of Leave us the Hell Alone is so hard to understand? 
You haven’t asked them to, either.
Let me ask you this, directly: do you disagree with my assessment in post #267 vis a vis the cult’s danger to town?
it won’t really help Town except to check that the LUTHA keep their stories straight.
if Lutha is real it will help the other members rule out suspected kin.
and I didn’t have a problem with the question, just the comment that * my question * was fishy/scummy and theirs wasn’t.
Scum may be able to use the data - mind you (If Scum are trying to avoid killing a cultist it gives them a field to aim to)
You are a claimed cultist. that is what it has to do with you.
If another wolf dies the two of you can’t prove you are not wolves! If 3 Mafia die you can’t prove you are not Mafia! ( while you are alive)
if you don’t care about that- then it makes your “cult” more suspect
and I will back off supporting your continued life span down the road.
I feel strongly that such decisions are a personal choice. Beyond “winning the game” there is the important matter of “having fun.” The other cultists should claim or not claim as they decide, not based on what I say. At this point, I feel that staying hidden is pro-Town and anti-Cult. Whatever team takes a stab at me or Crys is actively hurting their own cause. I feel it is safer out here in the open. Staying hidden is pro-Town because the hidden cultists provide cover for Town Power roles and could draw a scum kill. That would be bad for us but good for Town.
I also disagree with you strongly about your assessment of cultist dangers. Your fear about cultists aligning with scum at endgame is short-sighted and possibly scum-motivated. The only way it is even remotely tempting for cultists to align with scum is if scum are winning. The best way for Town to prevent cultists from aligning with scum is to not let scum take a winning position, which should be Town’s primary goal. In other words, your primary goal has the added benefit of keeping cultists on your side.
Your proposed alternative, which is to preemptively Lynch cultists (me), creates the very situation that you are (supposedly) trying to avoid. You want the cultists on your side, but by lynching me you de facto place me on the scum’s side (whether I wanted that or not). You waste Town resources lynching non-scum and advance the scum win condition. Town should not sacrifice mid-game position to avoid an endgame position that might not even happen. If anything, sacrificing mid-game position is more likely to create a scum lead, which is precisely what you should be avoiding.
I don’t know if you haven’t thought this through completely or if you are scum angling to get Town to mis-step. I can tell you this, I bet Townies are wishing scum would kill Crys and me and Scum are hoping Town will Lynch or Batman Crys and me.
And if another wolf dies you can’t prove you’re not a wolf either! It’s a strange bar to have to defend the way you are stating it.
I also disagree with your assessment about proof. While 3 cultists are hidden, they still exist. And if one wolf dies, I guess you can be all paranoid and stuff. But then another wolf will die and then what? If all the wolves die then what? I mean, we can’t be wolves if all the wolves are dead.
I guess I just don’t see the danger that you are seeing. I doubt all 5 of us are going to make it to endgame. And if we do all make it to endgame, I’m absolutely fine with getting lynched, just to ease your mind.
100% Bull. Consider the following scenario.
Players alive:
8 town (no Vig).
5 cultists.
4 Mafia.
Mafia isn’t winning in this scenario. But if they and the cultists claim and team up then the game is over. This is not some kind of unbelievable hypothetical, and you’re pinging me hard for suggesting that I might be scum for saying so.
You’re making up hypotheticals and then assigning gameplay to fit your conclusions. I look at the same situation and no way are Mafia and Cultists aligning. In order for Cultists to align with Mafia, all 4 Mafia have to claim and all 5 cultists have to claim in order to pick of the Town. That’s a big risk because at that point it is just as easy for cultists to align with TOWN and pick off the remaining scum.
Oh, is it? How exactly would the cultists align with town to pick off the remaining scum? Do you imagine that the 4 Mafia would fail to claim town as well?
I suppose you’re proposing a scenario where the 4 Mafia claim and then the cultists go “haha, screw you guys, we’re aligning with town.”
I have zero reason to expect it would play out that way. It might, but if town lets it get to that point it means we’ve failed to check the cultists and we probably deserve to lose.
You guys need to be addressed long before that point.
ah but you see, You have claimed non-Town- it effects you more.
" paranoid and stuff" , how about suspect of a ruse (and a fine one if not risky)
If you want to ’ help Town’ as you say, outing more than two of you ( not all) will support your claims and help Town winnow the field of possible Scum.
[QUOTE=sachertorte;19991001And if one wolf dies, I guess you can be all paranoid and stuff. But then another wolf will die and then what? If all the wolves die then what? I mean, we can’t be wolves if all the wolves are dead.[/QUOTE]
True, but you could still be Mafia. I find it odd that you glossed over that even though it was addressed in the post you were responding to.
What you fail to grasp is “addressing” it makes it come true. Town should want to keep the cultists off their Lynch burden. Why are you advocating taking on the cultists as a Lynch burden when that isn’t necessary?
Let’s pretend you are right, and somehow all 5 cultists agree to stab Town in the back (I can see some wanting to do so, but not all 5) how would “addressing” the cultists earlier put Town in a better position? You can’t expect that you can magically erase all the cultists from endgame without sacrificing mid game. So you eliminate 5 cultists, who DIDN’T you eliminate to get those 5 cultists? That would be scum and Townies that you thought were scum. You are imagining a better Endgame, when that simply isn’t the case. So instead of:
8T
5C
4M
you have:
8T
3T that you really think are scum since you lynched them in the alternate timeline
6M
Is that better for Town?
I say no.
So going forward Town starts lynching the 5 that they would have lynched if they hadn’t lynched the cultists.
At the end of that you would have
3T
4M
Not looking good for Town.
That’s what I mean by lynching a cultist removes the cultist’s ability to align with Town. You Lynch me and I can’t align with you, but you are already taking the hit as if I did.
Also, I would argue that at 8T, 5C, 4M, there is no need to rock the boat. Cultists are doing fine in this scenario, and would be quite content to sit it out and let Town and scum fight it out. Because of what I keep telling you… the side that chooses to kill cultists hurts their own side.
I’ll ask again. Do you think scum will be happy if Town lynches Cultists?
unvote
vote sachertorte
Sachertorte’s complete refusal to even entertain the notion that the cultists might be a danger to townie interests is pinging me really hard, along with pretty much everything he’s said in the last few posts.
I expect that Prof. P will still be lynched today, but I am happy putting my vote here for now.
Eh, that’s a bit mixed up. I mean
“You Lynch me and I can’t align with you, but you are already taking the hit as if I aligned with scum.”
Probably. But they’ll be even happier if we get to an endgame where there are enough cultists left alive to hand them a win.
Dude, I’ve given this a lot of thought. I’m pretty sure I’ve thought about it way more than you.
I believe that scum have to put a lot more thought into their posts than town. Yes.