Mafia Reunion - Day One

[Pleonast]

Omnibus post. I probably won’t post more than once or twice per calendar day. Sorry if I didn’t reply to you.

@sachertorte

Pleonast and I have disagreed on this point before, but I’ll say again, this is one of many things that players fret about that never happens. The idea that scum will coordinate within the game thread where anyone could see it is absurd to me. Edit as much as you like; I’m not going to find it the least bit suspicious. Maybe if we ever get burned by such a thing, I’ll reconsider my stance, but I’m not fretting about something that is pretty much never going to happen. Seriously, if you are going to bend the rules and edit the board to communicate some precious information, just cheat already and send a PM, because I consider both equally cheatful.

I agree that players attempting to secretly communicate via post editing is nearly cheating. I’d prefer that the moderators simply ban post-editing. But since they’ve explicitly allowed it, feel that it’s up to the players to voice our disapproval and possibly more severe reactions to it.

@sachertorte

This point has been made before, and I still don’t care. Even if scummy scum scum makes a mis-post and edits it, I don’t care. Getting boards mixed up isn’t exactly the height of entertainment for me, and ultimately that is the goal of playing, to have fun. In my opinion, the benefits of editing (post formatting, getting quote tags right etc) far out weigh the slim chance of catching scum mis-posting, which wouldn’t be all that satisfying anyway. In other words, I don’t want mis-formatted posts to linger simply because players are afraid of looking suspicious for editing.

In a game all about reading the posts of other players, the editing of posts is anti-game as far as I’m concerned. If a post ends up formatted poorly or a player mistypes badly, the in-game solution is to write a new post. Not change the historical record.

Ultimately, I feel a player who edits a post is trying to the ruin the fun of the rest of us with their own personal selfishness.

@Chronos

From any other player, it’d raise my hackles, too, but Meeko is the one person from which it might be understandable. In something like his first four games, he ended up being confirmed as Town early on, twice through, basically, accidents of the game setup. As a result, I think he’s gotten it fixed in his head that “get oneself confirmed as Town” is something that every Townie is expected to do. So he tries everything he can think of to confirm himself Town, and in most games, all that one can do is claim Townishness, which isn’t enough.

This post raises my hackles. It looks like trying to excuse another player’s behavior, maybe in an attempt to mollify that other player.

(A mechanical note: please use a proper quote so that it’s easier for others to see where you’re quoting from. Or at least manually include a link or Day.Number so we can easily find it. We have no easy way to find the context of your snip.)

@jsgoddess

I’ve thought about this more and I don’t see the argument for being silent about what town roles should do.

First, I don’t assume that I’m going to say something brilliant that no one else could think of, and that therefore I am giving the scum something they wouldn’t. Especially because we know that each scum team gets to pool its smarts. The only way for Town to pool its smarts is through conversation. And if it’s a mistake to talk about how to use Town roles, surely it would be more of a mistake to talk about how to use scum roles, wouldn’t it? I don’t think talking hurts Town, except perhaps in some closed games.

You’ve outlined the reasons why it can be helpful to discuss town roles.

But do not forget the costs. Go read the scum boards of previous games. They carefully read through all the posts, looking for “power role” tells. It’s surprisingly easy for players to give small indications that they have a non-vanilla role.

Think of it this way. Many players have been discussing the Patsy role. That forces a choice on the player with that role. Do they participate in the discussion or not? If they participate, they risk saying something that flags themselves. If they’re against claiming early (or not), do they say so publicly? If after several Days no one has claimed Patsy, every player who advocated the Patsy early claiming has effectively told Scum they’re not the Patsy.

Of course, maybe the Patsy isn’t the most valuable* role. But do we really want to put other town roles in the same predicament?

Better to talk about Scum roles. And put Scum in that predicament. And in this game it’s even more helpful because the other Scum team will help us find Scum slips.

*The most valuable thing Town can get is confirmed Town. And any singular role like Patsy where a false claim can be counter-claimed is valuable.

@Normal_Phase

I’ve now edited another post and that one wasn’t a joke. You think I’ll get voted for it?

I wouldn’t have voted for simply editing (because blind policy votes aren’t helpful), but calling out players to vote for you for anti-town behavior strikes me the type of sly mocking Scum sometimes do.

@Scathach

@Biotop

From my count the following players did not post to Night0 at all. **

AngeloftheNorth
Nesta
Lakai
DaphneBlack
Hal Briston
Winston Smith **

I hope they are in the game.

I don’t see the point here. Either they’re playing or they aren’t. The game hadn’t actually started in Night Zero. This comes across as a bit too “helpful townie” to me.

For me, a post-numbers list is not useful unless it includes the players who didn’t post at all.

Also, we want players to be helpful to Townies, regardless of their alignment. And it’s not helpful to Town to scold players for being helpful.

@septimus

@Pleonast

I see little benefit and plenty of risks in discussing what town roles should or should not do. Let each player decide the best course for their own role. Remember, at least a quarter of current players have win conditions in opposition to ours. Do not take advice from anyone not confirmed as Town. Reread the second sentence of this paragraph.

If you feel a need to discuss roles, let’s focus on what the Scum roles might do. What tactics and gambits should we be prepared for. How Mafia and Wolves might try to coordinate. How third parties might try to.

And speaking of coordination, I’ll consider post editing extremely suspicious. Mafia, Wolves, and Third Parties have no easy means to coordinate. Putting a message in a post when another player is known to be online and then editing it before anyone else is likely to see it is a possible gambit.

I disagree with the 1st paragraph. Town Powers might want advice, but can’t ask for it directly. Yes, Scum might try to give bad advice but their bad advice will be attacked and put themselves in jeopardy.

The 2nd paragraph may be good advice, but runs the risk of alerting Scum to countermeasures we may try.

The 3rd paragraph seems odd given that off-thread communication is allowed at all times. Cautious players will refresh their private chatrooms before posting in-game. So it sounds like Pleonast is talking about a Wolf trying to send a message to a Mafia, or vice versa. Is that right? It still seems very odd. With so many players it’s more likely that a different player would see the secret message than it’s intended recipient.

All in all, this post by Pleonast seems weird enough to merit an early loose vote.
Vote Pleonast

My post was me trying to be normal. It’s a good thing I didn’t introduce my “all town role claim on Day 1 to give us a pool of confirmed Town so big that Scum can’t kill us all fast enough to win” plan*.

*I haven’t run the numbers, but it’s in the realm of possibility, since Scum might kill off some of the false claims for us. Better to wait until mid-game.

@Thing_Fish

You come into the thread and immediately claim Vanilla Town, which is weird but whatever. Then you immediately start talking about what you feel would be the best strategy for scum. A strategy which, by definition, couldn’t be discussed on the scum boards.

You don’t do this in the context of offering any ideas about how Town might counter this. You just say “Oh noes, if scum think of doing* this* not-particularly-obvious thing, we’re all screwed!”

Why, as Town, would you do that?

Because I’m concerned about what Scum might do. Each Scum team is figuring out how to counter town roles on their own boards. Why should we help them by discussing what we might do?

Instead, let’s talk about what they might do, so that each town role can better decide for themself (without possibly accidently revealing their tactics here) what to do about it.

(An aside: have so many of us forgotten how scum play the game?)

@Thing_Fish

Yes, absolutely this. Nobody has really been talking about the impact of the Hitman/Outrider roles, which will force protective roles to consider their own safety when deciding how to use their power. If there is only one claimed power role going into a Night or Day phase, it would be very risky for a doc to protect that player.

Obligatory disclaimer that all Town power roles should play their roles as they see fit, BUT… since Town has both Day and Night docs, seems like it would be wisest for the 7-shot protector Wizard to hold off until one of the other docs die, so that the Wizard can cover the phase that the late Doc worked in.

This is exactly the kind of discussion we need to be having.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Since the rules explicitly allow multiple votes (while only counting the first), here are my votes, with the most suspicious first and the rest unordered:
vote Normal Phase for daring us to vote for them in D1.27.
vote Chronos for snuggling up to Meeko in D0.442.
vote Scathach for scolding a player for being a “helpful townie” in D1.35.