I agree with you, for the most part (obviously there are times as the game develops where this may not be the case.) I’m still trying to work out if this means that if we have a chance to double or triple lynch, if we should strive to reach the cut-off level to do so as a rule.
I disagree on general principal, as I think it is a little unfair to people who end up on scum roles. As you said, information is pro town, so if everyone defaults to working for the town pre-game, it will tilt the balance ever so slightly towards the town. Not a big thing, but a thing. Unless of course you want to also discuss the best strategy for mafia and werewolves before roles are given.
Tuesday is a very long time from now. Any chance of a modification?
Talking is unfair to scum? Too bad, so sad. That’s the game.
[Gritty Noir Pulp Detective Voice] When you’re curled up in the corner of a room, surrounded by the blood of former friends and enemies, that whiskey you’re drinking isn’t neat. It might not be cut with water or ice or some soda pop mixer, but it sure as hell isn’t neat. [/GNPDV]
For the moment, I’d be worried about potentially going through all our sandbags too quickly with the multi-lynch.
:dubious:
Well, I’ve got my Day One vote all lined up.
Talking Pre-Game. IE before there are roles so scum don’t they are scum. Sigh.
Potentially. No promises. It’s being discussed.
Hey, I wanted to let you know your questions were seen. But I’m posting from my phone and won’t be at a computer until tonight. From my phone it’s really difficult to quote and format answers to long questions like this easily. Story or Mahaloth might be by and answer before I can.
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We need to keep bumbling along and talking once day 1 starts and the game mechanics discussion always is filler (because town/scum both can contribute and not add things) that’s why it’d be useful to get that outta the way first.
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ToeJam Bumbling? Are you trying to insert / manufacture a route for,you to appear town here? Is there motivation for Town to say bumbling?
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What is more filler than pointing out other filler? …Ack, I’ve pointed this out, it’s gonna spiral in on itself…ack!
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But I think we can both agree we need to have conversation, and Day 1 (We are already playing, let’s be clear on that.) conversation. But I’m not sure how to reconcile the need to have conversation with your assertion that most conversation, for our current state in the game, is filler.
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Hawkeyeop 
Wouldn’t you say the game is a “little” unfair to Town to begin with? I’m not sure at all where to put this this… But it’s non-town. This has less town motivation than ToeJam
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**Why shouldn’t the game tilt toward pro-town? **
So…having barely skimmed my own role PM, and having taken no time to look at any of the others, I have a question:
From a Town perspective, is there any real difference between Mafia and Werewolves? Would an optimal strategy (not that there’s a snowball’s chance of such a thing actually being implemented, but it’s good for discussion) favor targeting one faction over the other…or are they both just “Scum”?
As the game winds on, there may come a point based upon the number of remaining members in each faction where it may be significant in order to keep one Scum faction from achieving their win condition, but I haven’t attempted to do the math…
I think the fact that it’s 50% of the population means that as far as town is concerned, there’s 14 scum that must be dealt with. Whether we eliminate all 7 mafia and then all 7 wolves or alternate 1 of each, I don’t think it changes the math.
Personally, I’m not a fan of talking much before the game starts, because anything we could say before the game starts, we could instead say after, too, and the game needs people talking on Day 1 (and on all other Days, too, of course). Best not to use up the discussion topics before they’re needed.
This probably doesn’t need to be said, but the only time no-lynch is a good idea is in certain endgame scenarios, for instance, to engineer 2 vs. 1 instead of 3 vs. 1. Yes, the Day 1 lynch usually hits a Townie, but we need the information.
Speaking of information: Multi-lynch without multi-vote is problematic for Town, because it muddles the voting information. The best scenario, information-wise, is where everyone votes for the person they think most likely to be Scum, and if people are voting just to engineer a particular vote total for a multi-lynch, we don’t have that. It’s not too relevant yet, since we only get one lynch on Day 1 anyway, but unless we have two targets who are both uncontroversial (Detective reveals, or the like), or we’re really desperate, I don’t think we should ever try to engineer a multi-lynch. If, however, one happens naturally, we’ll roll with it.
I don’t think so. I don’t particularly care which scum team wins, so I think it’s in our best interest to look at this game, to start with, as having a 14 man scum team with two kills. As time goes on, especially if the Detective can out multiple scum at once, we might have the luxury of trying to pick on one faction over another based on who’s left. We might also be in the situation of having to leave known scum alive for a while in order to prevent the other faction from winning (possibly: I haven’t really thought enough about the wincons enough yet to determine if there is a chance where we might have to team up with one scumteam to beat the other)
I think that, for now, they’re both functionally identical as far as Town is concerned.
A situation where we have enough data that we can actively target one faction over another (meaning that we have multiple solid lines on members of both factions) is pretty close to a best-case scenario.
It makes a difference in that 7 mafia plus 7 town is a loss, while 4 mafia, 3 wolves, and 7 town is not a loss.
It feels like in general we’re better off trying to keep the numbers of each nontown faction equal, but in practice that may be difficult.
Not that we’re likely to have a choice, but eliminating all of one team first and then the other is definitely better, because once a Scum team is eliminated, they stop killing.
Okay. Let’s get started:
I have a strong feeling that there is a Vampire in the game. No reason for there NOT to have a Vampire and I think we’re all expecting a 3rd Party serial killer for a game so large. Nothing too shocking (or useful) here.
I don’t want to get too into the multi-lynch game mechanic. It isn’t coming into play on Day One anyway. Two quick thoughts though:
(1) More Town-directed kills is better for Town
(2) 10% is a very small number of players (i.e., easily controlled by scum)
My overall impression is that 2 lynches is OK. 3 lynches is bad.
The Role PMs confirm that nWolves + nMafia = 14.
Wait, what? Are you telling me that a baseball player is still getting paid despite not playing for 15 years? That’s kind of awesome. What happened to the guy who gave the OK on that one?
Followed by a whole bunch of nothing (and you bet I skimmed the crap out of those).
Ah, No Lynch discussion.
Not important. A No Lynch is unlikely to happen and if it does, it will be because of some unusual circumstance that we wouldn’t be able to predict now anyway.
This is pretty good, but the chances of a terrible run in lynching scum is actually not that high. The number of scum is unusually high in this game, however they are split into two factions, so we get a higher probability of lynching scum while still being further from a scum win. That would be in Town’s favor. The down side is there are a LOT of scum powers.
While I focused on the opening color’s chatter about Vampires, I did not notice the reference to fire. I believe you are correct in that one of the 3rd parties is fire-related. However, like the Vampire, it doesn’t really matter. In fact, the names of the roles are all just another form of color anyway.
37 Townies sounds plausible. With 14 scum (with powers, mostly) running about, another 4 anti-town elements (or even neutral) is pushing the boundaries of what Town needs to do to win. It is my personal opinion that Third Parties add to the Lynch burden of the town. Since we can’t know whether a third party player has an exclusive or inclusive win condition, we have to Lynch third parties. (Sidenote: I’ve always wanted to keep third parties around and make scum deal with them, but that never works out. Once a Third Party is found, it is near impossible to get the Lynch to go to anyone else). I think once we were able to leave the Survivor role alone, but I don’t remember how she (I think it was dotchan) was able to convince us that she was no threat to any side.
If we Lynch 1 + 3 + 3 + 3 = 10 times and not hit ANY scum, then we deserve to lose.
I disagree. There exist actions and decisions that are so detrimental to scum that they avoid them at all costs. That’s how we find Town and narrow our search to scum. It’s an important part of the deduction game. If you toss out all data and throw your hands up and say, well, scum might have done that too, then we might as well just randomize our way through the game.
Considering? I thought that was your default position.
I don’t know if win stealers can’t win if all scum are dead, but my interpretation is that Town wins if all scum are dead. In other words, Town Wins, Win Stealer might or might not win (win together remains a possibility).
I hate Millers. I thought we determined a long time ago that millers (Town roles that investigate as scum) are a terrible and un-fun role to play. I agree that a Miller claim right away is pro-town since it protects the investigators from wasting an investigation. It’s a sucky role to have to play though, so I’m not going to press it.
My interpretation of the roles says no.
Probably doesn’t matter though. Would be a real stinker if the game came down to a point where town not only had to Lynch scum but had to Lynch the “right” kind of scum.
Americanism. Lucky Charms is a cereal with a Leprechaun mascot. Don’t look it up, you will be offended. Or do look it up, you will be amused.
I had the same thought when I read that, but it looks like there isn’t a problem with redirection in the scum powers.
The strategy is for the Vig to kill scum! Also, Vig turns into a default second Lynch often.
Wait, what? We haven’t started?
No. If anything, we would want to reduce the Wolves and Mafia at an equal rate. The Mafia and Wolf Win Conditions are similar and depend on their living numbers. We want that number to be as small as possible. 0 Wolves and 7 Mafia does us no good. Mafia still wins with 14 or less players. But 3 Wolves 4 Mafia, scum don’t win until Pop dips to 8. That’s a big difference.
True, but that won’t happen for a long time. I don’t see gains equal the effort.
It’s all mostly a distraction anyway since we won’t likely be faced with such a luxurious choice.