Mafia: The Conspiracy

[CatInASuit]

@Rysto

The point under contention is my strategy is dealing with OAOW’s role claim. As he is now dead, the point is moot.
If I were a Cabalist, I wouldn’t trade my own life to postpone the lynch of a fellow Cabalist. I’d have to be an idiot to put my neck on the line like that.

Rysto, thanks for the answers. They fill in a few gaps.

You might not be a Cabalist, but the reactions and strategies of other voters at the time might be interesting as well.

[MadTheSwine]

Just checking in…been pretty busy.

[Freudian_Slit]

I’m willing to admit that I’m not 100% that I was right about Diggit. But we’re going on so little today, it feels. I’m not getting a super strong read on anyone.

sachetorte has been quiet today. He’s pretty much got a guaranteed in, though, unless one of his predictions is totally wrong. And since we don’t find even one out until dusk, maybe he’s trying not to stir anything else up.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Weekends tend to be quiet, I suppose. People are busier doing stuff, rather than sitting at work procrastinating.

I’m willing to leave sacher alone for the moment, I suppose, since the veracity of his claims will eventually be determined. I guess I was a bit concerned that there could be a way he would be able to know Sides without knowing Roles and fake being the Coroner, but I don’t see how this is possible at this point.

[Rysto]

I say leave sach alone, and if he was wrong on OAOW’s alignment, Vig him. If he’s wrong on either of the night kills, lynch him tomorrow. We could even let him live Day 3 and Vig him Night 3. That would allow the Vig to let us know whether there really is one in the game.

On the other hand, having that knowledge might help the scum more than the Town. If they know that there’s a Vig they’ll try to claim some other role instead.

The other problem with Viging him Night 3 is that if he’s the Vampire he’d get to kill one more time. Any thoughts?

[Rysto]

Oh, and the reason that I’d prefer not lynching him even if he’s confirmed to be scum is that we won’t gain any information from that lynch.

[Rysto]

Damn no edit rule.

One more thing: Vigging him results in an extra corpse which does help the Necromancer. That’s something else to keep in mind. But that line of reasoning means that the Vigilante is totally useless. It depends on what we feel is more valuable: a decreased chance of another Zombie or more information from a lynch on Day 3.

[Santo_Rugger]

@ShadowFacts

I admit I hadn’t considered the possible downside of **sachertorte **revealing amrussel’s Role in addition to his Side. There is an argument there for holding that info back, although, in my opinion, it would be more beneficial to have 3 confirmed corpses and 1 confimed Townie. Nevertheless, I can respect that opinion if that’s how **sach **wants to play it.

HOWEVER, if **sachertorte **does NOT reveal anyone’s Role, but only reveals Sides, I will not consider him 100% confirmed, even if he gets all the sides right. Maybe after several Days of getting all the Sides right, I will believe him. But even though the odds are against it, if he is lying scum, he could get lucky.

Final point: even with all of the above, as far as I can tell, there is NO reason not to reveal the Role of Fretful Porcupine. It would be very beneficial to know, for example, if we nailed the Omega Wolf as opposed to just a Wolf. Can anyone tell me why we should not get that info? Cough it up, sach.

**
Vote ShadowFacts**

If sach is lying, we’ll find out soon enough. If he’s telling the truth, I don’t like your pressure on him one bit.

[ShadowFacts]

@Pygmy Rugger

**
Vote ShadowFacts**

If sach is lying, we’ll find out soon enough. If he’s telling the truth, I don’t like your pressure on him one bit.

(color removed to avoid confusion)

Interesting. Would you care to answer my question about **Fretful’s ** Role from the post you quoted?

[Kat]

I can see the reasoning behind it the question. There’s somewhat of a point behind keeping amrussell’s role quiet for now (although I still think he made a big mistake if he did falsely claim Freemason to hide a more critical pro-Town role), but what would be the point behind keeping the Wolf role hidden? I don’t see a problem with ShadowFacts asking for either the reason or the role (notice the question right before “Cough it up, sach”? That leads me to believe that an explanation for not giving the role would suffice).

Not to mention the fact that sach might have already given the complete role, if Fretful was, in fact, just a generic Wolf. In which case, no pressure actually exists.

[HazelNutCoffee]

@Kat

Not to mention the fact that sach might have already given the complete role, if Fretful was, in fact, just a generic Wolf. In which case, no pressure actually exists.

Either Fretful was an actual Werewolf, or she wasn’t. If she wasn’t, well, that will be revealed soon enough, and then we can lynch sacher and that’s that. If she was, then sacher is either the real Coroner or he is a Werewolf himself. Whether or not he is a Werewolf is easily verifiable with OAOW’s true Side - a Werewolf would have no way of knowing who the Cabalists are (unless they got very, very lucky, which is not very probable).

I guess my point is that if sacher is the true Coroner, he has no reason to withhold Fret’s real role (unlike amrussell’s case), so it seems safe to assume that she was just a generic Werewolf with no special Role. I can’t imagine a scenario where sacher is the actual Coroner and is hiding such information.

If sacher isn’t the real Coroner, well, again, we’ll know soon enough. We’re not going to lynch him (IF we do end up lynching him) until Pleonast reveals the relevant information, so fussing over the whole thing now seems somewhat counterproductive.

[Kat]

Yes, it’ll be revealed eventually, and yes, there’s a possibility that sach did reveal Fretful’s full role as “Wolf”. On the other hand, I don’t think it’s scummy that ShadowFacts is asking about it. In fact, I find it a little bit suspicious that Pygmy jumped all over it as an excuse to vote. An FoS might have been appropriate, as SF’s post could be read as overly aggressive, but a vote, with no other evidence of scumminess, feels like a bit much.

[Idle_Thoughts]

@Rysto

A verifiable Town claim is as good as a known townie.

Snipped.

Yeah, but like you said in the sentence after, “not always”. : p

@Rysto

If I were a Cabalist, I wouldn’t trade my own life to postpone the lynch of a fellow Cabalist. I’d have to be an idiot to put my neck on the line like that.

I’m starting to be sick of this notion. Not from you but from anyone. That “it’d be so stupid” to do something in this game. What basis does that have on anything? Maybe scum will do the most stupid thing they could think of and then use that exact excuse: “If I were scum would I be that stupid?” and everyone would go “hmm, you have a good point”.

Well I say phooey to that. I say it’d be ultimate trickery to do something just like that in this game.

@MHaye

Suppose that Sachertorte is now in a similar position - namely that amr told the truth about his alignment but not about his role. Suppose that he had an extremely valuable role but didn’t want to reveal it in order to avoid giving information to one of the killing scum groups that let them play around his power? Sachertorte could be suppressing the rolename because, knowing what amr was, he doesn’t want to give the Wolves and/or Undead that info either, for as long as possible.

Why would it matter? He’s dead now. Even if he’s brought back to life by a/the Witchdoctor, he’ll A. know the name of his killer and B. if a powerful role, will probably be protected by a/the Doctor (or whatever the protecting role is in this game). If he’s brought back by the Necromancer, he can’t say either way anyway.

So why does it matter?

[QUOTE=Diomedes]
Don’t be a schmuck, ** Idle **. If you reverse the “Role” and “Alignment” in th efirst sentence of my post, you’ll get exactly what i meant. I wasn’t confused, and I’m not backpedalling. Please explain to me what sort of diabolical plan you think I have that is predicated on reversing those two words once in a post.
[/quote[

No diabolical plan at all. If someone is scum and they did that, then I’d call it a slip up and nothing more. I don’t wouldn’t think it was any sort of plan.

Note, that’s the general wording of it. I do not think you’re scum. At least not yet. I DO think you’re the most suspicious so far, but maybe that’s just because it’s early in the game.

I can’t think of a reason not to defend ** sache ** right now. If he’s not the coroner, it will come out very soon when he screws up the Role/Alignment identification.

But he has given no roles yet. Only alignments. So there’s nothing to compare it to when we do learn the ROLES of the players.

There’s no possible reason to lynch the guy until we have evidence that he’s not the coroner, because we know that evidence is shortly forthcoming.

Not really. He’s said the side of each player. IF he’s a Cabalist, two of those roles he would get right (probably) and the last he could be hoping for a lucky guess on.

It would be much more confirming if he could say if amrussell is a Freemason or not.

Good point. I hadn’t thought of the angle of him as a Cabalist. He’d have to be lucky on Fretful, but I think that he needs to get in here toDay and give a more specific accounting of the dead players’ Roles.

Then we’re in agreement.

@HazelNutCoffee

I guess I was a bit concerned that there could be a way he would be able to know Sides without knowing Roles and fake being the Coroner, but I don’t see how this is possible at this point.

Well, it is possible if one’s a lucky guesser. Just one lucky guess it all it takes and then people tend to believe you from there on out.

This is why I feel it’d be much better if he’d say the precise roles.

@Rysto

Oh, and the reason that I’d prefer not lynching him even if he’s confirmed to be scum is that we won’t gain any information from that lynch.

Huh?

If he’s scum, let’s not lynch him? Is that what you’re saying there?

Vote Rysto

…for this post plus the others above that I’ve commented on.

And Pygmy, what reason does sach have to be secretive? Does he not KNOW the roles?

@HazelNutCoffee

I guess my point is that if sacher is the true Coroner, he has no reason to withhold Fret’s real role (unlike amrussell’s case),

There is no reason to withhold amrssell’s role either.

If sacher isn’t the real Coroner, well, again, we’ll know soon enough.

No, we won’t. I don’t see the logic behind this at all. Like I said earlier. Sach could be a Cabalist. IF that is true:

1. He says OAOW is a Cabalist. He’ll turn out to be right.
2. He believed amrussell was a Freemason, but was not sure. So he just said Town to be safe. If amrussell is telling the truth, sach will turn out to be right.
3. He took a guess at what Fretful was. IF that guess happens to be right, guess what? EVERYONE believes that sach is the Coroner when, in fact, he’s not.

Do I think he’s lying? Telling the truth? I have no clue. But he will NOT and NEVER be confirmed until he starts being SPECIFIC, at least to me. Someone is a Freemason? Fine. Say it. That way when they turn up as one, we’ll know it was a one in 1,000 chance (or whatever the odds would be, I’m not Blaster Master) rather than a one in 4 chance (which it is by just giving the side).

Suppose amrussell really ISN’T a Freemason? Well, then say what he really is and when it’s revealed what he is, that’s TOTALLY confirmed in my mind.

I just don’t get this. What is so special that has to be kept? What could scum use? His role is going to be revealed ANYWAY as long as he’s not brought back to life and if he IS brought back to life, he’ll be trading a scum for his first death anyway AND probably have protection.

So again, what’s the deal here?

[Idle_Thoughts]

@Rysto

A verifiable Town claim is as good as a known townie.

Snipped.

Yeah, but like you said in the sentence after, “not always”. : p

@Rysto

If I were a Cabalist, I wouldn’t trade my own life to postpone the lynch of a fellow Cabalist. I’d have to be an idiot to put my neck on the line like that.

I’m starting to be sick of this notion. Not from you but from anyone. That “it’d be so stupid” to do something in this game. What basis does that have on anything? Maybe scum will do the most stupid thing they could think of and then use that exact excuse: “If I were scum would I be that stupid?” and everyone would go “hmm, you have a good point”.

Well I say phooey to that. I say it’d be ultimate trickery to do something just like that in this game.

@MHaye

Suppose that Sachertorte is now in a similar position - namely that amr told the truth about his alignment but not about his role. Suppose that he had an extremely valuable role but didn’t want to reveal it in order to avoid giving information to one of the killing scum groups that let them play around his power? Sachertorte could be suppressing the rolename because, knowing what amr was, he doesn’t want to give the Wolves and/or Undead that info either, for as long as possible.

Why would it matter? He’s dead now. Even if he’s brought back to life by a/the Witchdoctor, he’ll A. know the name of his killer and B. if a powerful role, will probably be protected by a/the Doctor (or whatever the protecting role is in this game). If he’s brought back by the Necromancer, he can’t say either way anyway.

So why does it matter?

@Diomedes

Don’t be a schmuck, ** Idle **. If you reverse the “Role” and “Alignment” in th efirst sentence of my post, you’ll get exactly what i meant. I wasn’t confused, and I’m not backpedalling. Please explain to me what sort of diabolical plan you think I have that is predicated on reversing those two words once in a post.

No diabolical plan at all. If someone is scum and they did that, then I’d call it a slip up and nothing more. I don’t wouldn’t think it was any sort of plan.

Note, that’s the general wording of it. I do not think you’re scum. At least not yet. I DO think you’re the most suspicious so far, but maybe that’s just because it’s early in the game.

I can’t think of a reason not to defend ** sache ** right now. If he’s not the coroner, it will come out very soon when he screws up the Role/Alignment identification.

But he has given no roles yet. Only alignments. So there’s nothing to compare it to when we do learn the ROLES of the players.

There’s no possible reason to lynch the guy until we have evidence that he’s not the coroner, because we know that evidence is shortly forthcoming.

Not really. He’s said the side of each player. IF he’s a Cabalist, two of those roles he would get right (probably) and the last he could be hoping for a lucky guess on.

It would be much more confirming if he could say if amrussell is a Freemason or not.

Good point. I hadn’t thought of the angle of him as a Cabalist. He’d have to be lucky on Fretful, but I think that he needs to get in here toDay and give a more specific accounting of the dead players’ Roles.

Then we’re in agreement.

@HazelNutCoffee

I guess I was a bit concerned that there could be a way he would be able to know Sides without knowing Roles and fake being the Coroner, but I don’t see how this is possible at this point.

Well, it is possible if one’s a lucky guesser. Just one lucky guess it all it takes and then people tend to believe you from there on out.

This is why I feel it’d be much better if he’d say the precise roles.

@Rysto

Oh, and the reason that I’d prefer not lynching him even if he’s confirmed to be scum is that we won’t gain any information from that lynch.

Huh?

If he’s scum, let’s not lynch him? Is that what you’re saying there?

Vote Rysto

…for this post plus the others above that I’ve commented on and for the fact that I’ve been being pinged by scum feelings from him/her on Day One.

And Pygmy, what reason does sach have to be secretive? Does he not KNOW the roles?

@HazelNutCoffee

I guess my point is that if sacher is the true Coroner, he has no reason to withhold Fret’s real role (unlike amrussell’s case),

There is no reason to withhold amrssell’s role either.

If sacher isn’t the real Coroner, well, again, we’ll know soon enough.

No, we won’t. I don’t see the logic behind this at all. Like I said earlier. Sach could be a Cabalist. IF that is true:

1. He says OAOW is a Cabalist. He’ll turn out to be right.
2. He believed amrussell was a Freemason, but was not sure. So he just said Town to be safe. If amrussell is telling the truth, sach will turn out to be right.
3. He took a guess at what Fretful was. IF that guess happens to be right, guess what? EVERYONE believes that sach is the Coroner when, in fact, he’s not.

Do I think he’s lying? Telling the truth? I have no clue. But he will NOT and NEVER be confirmed until he starts being SPECIFIC, at least to me. Someone is a Freemason? Fine. Say it. That way when they turn up as one, we’ll know it was a one in 1,000 chance (or whatever the odds would be, I’m not Blaster Master) rather than a one in 4 chance (which it is by just giving the side).

Suppose amrussell really ISN’T a Freemason? Well, then say what he really is and when it’s revealed what he is, that’s TOTALLY confirmed in my mind.

I just don’t get this. What is so special that has to be kept? What could scum use? His role is going to be revealed ANYWAY as long as he’s not brought back to life and if he IS brought back to life, he’ll be trading a scum for his first death anyway AND probably have protection.

So again, what’s the deal here?

[Idle_Thoughts]

How about this then, for those of you saying “well, sach could be protecting more info from scum”…sach just says whether or not amrussell was a Freemason or not. That works, I think. “He was” or “He wasn’t”. Neat, clean, and if amrussell was lying BUT Town, it would still keep any “info” from going to scum (although, again, I have no idea why the heck anyone is thinking it would matter).

[sachertorte]

I have given sufficient information to confirm my role.
At the time Pleonast reveals the Role information of amrussell and Fretful Porpentine (Beginning of Day Four), he will also reveal the Side information of tonight’s nightkills. I will happily share the Side information of these individuals prior to Day Four.

[Rysto]

@Idle Thoughts

I’m starting to be sick of this notion. Not from you but from anyone. That “it’d be so stupid” to do something in this game. What basis does that have on anything? Maybe scum will do the most stupid thing they could think of and then use that exact excuse: “If I were scum would I be that stupid?” and everyone would go “hmm, you have a good point”.

Well I say phooey to that. I say it’d be ultimate trickery to do something just like that in this game.

:rolleyes:
Either that I’m a Townie who happened to believe a role claim and tried to save who I believed was a fellow Townie.

Why would it matter? He’s dead now. Even if he’s brought back to life by a/the Witchdoctor, he’ll A. know the name of his killer and B. if a powerful role, will probably be protected by a/the Doctor (or whatever the protecting role is in this game). If he’s brought back by the Necromancer, he can’t say either way anyway.

So why does it matter?

There is no Doctor, only the Witchdoctor. The Witches can protect but I can’t see any other Town role being more important than the Witches themselves.

Huh?

If he’s scum, let’s not lynch him? Is that what you’re saying there?

Vote Rysto

…for this post plus the others above that I’ve commented on and for the fact that I’ve been being pinged by scum feelings from him/her on Day One.

Are you serious? Could you have taken that quote any worse out of context? If he’s scum, we Vig him. That’s what I saying there. He’s just as dead either way, but lynching somebody else maximizes our information gain from the Day(at the cost of a slight increase in the chances of the Necromancer resurrecting a Zombie – and by slight, I mean that it’s an increase of 16% on the first Night and it drops every night after that.)

Does everybody else see what I see? Idle Thoughts is taking my quotes out of context to make me look scummy. He’s going on how he’s pointed out further scuminess on my part toDay – except that he hasn’t. He says that I was so scummy yesterday – but he won’t say when or how. He knows that he doesn’t have anything on me but he wants to make you all think that he does.

Vote Idle Thoughts

I thought he was scummy Day One(check the voting record – I actually voted for him that Day before changing to No Lynch at the last minute) and nothing that he’s done today has changed my mind in the least.

[Hockey_Monkey]

Rysto, twice you have said that we can Vig **Sach ** if he turns up scum. **OAOW ** claimed to be a Vig, and he’s dead. Did you forget that? We don’t know for sure what his alignment or role was yet, but you are assuming quite a bit to say that we can Vig someone. We don’t know if there was a Vig to start with, that **OAOW ** was or was not a Vig, and that if he was that there is another one in the game, and that if there is a Vig currently in the game that he will follow direction and take him out. That is a lot of assumption.

[MHaye]

Status post.

Tonight (Monday 8th) I will be packing bags and preparing for a journey.
Tomorrow I will be flying across the North Sea to stay with my fiancee for a week. I will not be online at all that day.
On Thursday I am going to a wedding (not ours). I’ll be offline all that day too.

Other than those days (and the return journey) I will have access but it will be reduced (we have to share her computer).

I plan to reread Today tonight (so to speak) but whether I’ll get it done or place a vote remains to be seen. There’s still a lot to do.

[Pleonast]

Only fifty-some hours until the end of the Day. Players with Day Powers: don’t forget to PM me your choice of actions.

By the way, I’m saving all PM communications to myself for future public view once the game is over. If you have any strategic thoughts “in the moment” you want preserved (but too incriminating to express in the game thread), just send me a PM with them. I already have some interesting comments from a couple players.