Sorry I’ve been a bit AWOL. I’ve been posting on the boards on simpler threads due to general business/hungover-ness. Will try to gather my thoughts for later.
MadTheSwine has been replaced by dotchan.
Although I prefer to mod-kill rather than sub, it’s still early in the game. And it’s not like Mad has said much anyway. 
MWAHAHAHA! Beware, foul Undead, savage Wolves, and nefarious Cabal! 
I’ve been sort of following along, but obviously I’ve been putting most of my attention into the Firefly game. I’m gonna try to reread the thread (at least the stuff pertaining to sach and Idles’ respective claims) and put in my two cents ASAP.
Whoohoo! Welcome to the game, dotchan.
Bye MadTheSwine, sorry to see you go.
Hi dotchan, try not to get lynched on your first day. 
Welcome to our party, dot!
FOS: dotchan
You know, just for old times sake, right?
>.>
As Roosh would say, Dio, most uncool!
But anyway, my 2 cents on the sachertorte vs. Idle Thoughts bruhaha…
*sachertorte’s reticence makes sense if he is telling the truth, but also very frustrating at the same time. He’s not the only one playing the game, after all. sachertorte, does your role PM hold any indications that the Wolves and Undead have Day powers?
*Idle Thoughts’ role claim and PM doesn’t sound made up, but I find do it odd that his PM doesn’t have the extra bit of information that sachertorte has. Still, this may just be Pleonast being a bastard mod, and I’ve just learned the hard way in the other game that Idle Thoughts’ playstyle is more or less a null tell. At any rate, it’s insane to lynch a claimed, uncontested Witchdoctor, especially this early in the game.
A more detailed list of suspects will be written up as soon as I get a chance to read the rest of the thread.
Maybe I’ve been reading too much Dawkins, but this is starting to remind me of the Prisoner’s Dilemma.
Idle Thoughts and sachertorte have to cooperate for both their (and our) good. But they both have to trust each other, and it seems like so far they’re both defecting. And, now having read that chapter in Dawkins’s Selfish Gene, it’s fairly understandable why. It seems like they both have to much to lose by trusting each other. (Then again, I may have totally misunderstood that chapter. It was very math-y.)
I’m not sure where we go from here.
Hey, I freely admit there may be things I don’t know. I can’t happen to think of any, however, and don’t know of any that would be regarding the Coroner role.
Why have you not said Hal or Rysto’s side even yet?
How is that? I wouldn’t want to talk with a scum. For all I know you’re lying and want me to waste it on a scum. But if you ARE THE CORONER, I wouldn’t want to talk to, say, a Scotsman or a Magician or Vig either. So no, saying just “They’re Town” doesn’t work. They could be Town and be one of those that doesn’t yeild much or any info. I have the potential to learn a LOT of info, but only if I talk to the right roles. Why you’d just want me to waste it on any “Townie” that you proclaim, I don’t know.
But when Pleo gives the real info out, if just one matches, it would gain you a lot more trust. Apparently you don’t get this or are being purposefully obtuse.
I wouldn’t want to talk to, say, a Scotsman or a Magician or Vig either. So no, saying just “They’re Town” doesn’t work. They could be Town and be one of those that doesn’t yeild much or any info. I have the potential to learn a LOT of info, but only if I talk to the right roles. Why you’d just want me to waste it on any “Townie” that you proclaim, I don’t know.
Unless I want to talk to a person in the dark, yeah, I do. Either from you or someone who claims it (who I happen to believe). But even they could be lying. The real Coroner is the only one that will know.
Why would I want to potentially waste my one time talk? I want to talk with a Witch most of all followed by a Freemason, Detective and Seer in that order. So unless one of the “Town” people you say is one of those, I don’t want to risk wasting it. And you, you’re not saying either way. So I guess I just have to wait until Pleo does and hope I don’t die by that time.
As I’ve already said and others have already said, why would I want to risk wasting the talk on just a “Town” read? She could be a Town that doesn’t have much info to give out. And if that’s the case, guess what?
- I’ve wasted my one time talk.
- I wouldn’t have anything to confirm myself with.
So again, I say your way of thinking is anti-Town.
Then why don’t you just tell me when you come across a Witch or one of those other good ones, Kay? 
Otherwise I’m not just taking “Oh, they’re a Townie”.
My role description says I will talk to the dead player and learn all the info they know up until their death. Go back and read it. I posted it yeserDay. If this is a Freemason, I’m pretty sure “what the secret sign is” is info they’d know and thus I would learn.
Well, it’s all moot since sach refuses to reveal anything one way or the other and wants me to talk with someone just based on being Town. Again, if DB was just a Town with little or no info then there would be no way to confirm myself and the talk will have done little good. So pardon me if I find this suspicious that sach wants me to just talk based on “She’s Town”.
That’s fine.
Really, all I can do is wait. Either for your trust to increase or for Pleonast to reveal the roles (because either way, I can talk to a dead Townie anytime, even if they died wayyyy back on Night One).
My main suspicions just come from three things still.
- The fact that you seem you’re trying/want to get me confirmed asap.
- The fact that you still haven’t said certain sides even.
- The fact that you think it’s a good idea to talk with someone you’ve only branded as “Town” when there is ultimately a big difference in info I could get depending on what a Townie was.
But I’m content to wait for now. I just hope I live that long. For my and your sake. Beause if I die early…I foresee people turning on you if you haven’t given more things to confirm yourself by then.
Where have I done anything like this?
How so?
Read all of my posts above. For all those reasons, which are plainly stated, very clear, and very understable, I have mistrust of him. How are you of the mind that I should be just taking all he says as a for-sure word?
I cannot be verified until I talk with a Town role that has verification behind it.
I cannot do this until I know who is one.
Since sach is keeping mum, I will wait for Pleo to reveal them and hope I survive the Nights.
Please show me where I have done this.
I’m rapidly growing tired of my conversation with Idle Thoughts and being called obtuse is not particularly motivating towards devoting copious amounts of time to this game.
- Pleonast has not revealed any Role information against which to compare.
- I will reveal role information prior to Pleonast revealing Roles (with some execeptions if the need arises).
Nothing obtuse there.
Allow me to use the word obtuse as well:
Idle Thoughts is being obtuse in not realizing that if he trusts me enough to rely on Role information I have given, then he should trust me enough to talk with the person with whom I say is a good nighttime conversation.
Idle Thoughts is being obtuse in not realizing that talking with someone whose role is unknown can gain important information AND confirm his power claim.
Idle Thoughts is being obtuse in thinking that I would suggest people to talk to that would waste his ability.
Just for fun, because I know everyone here loves math:
Let’s assume that I knew OAOW’s role because Idle Thoughts thinks I might be a Cabalist: P(One And Only Wanders) = 1.0.
Let’s assume that I guessed that amrussell was telling the truth: P(amrussell) = 1.0; (really it should be approximately 12/18, but Idle Thoughts is being obtuse, so we’ll set the number to 1.0 for now)
Let’s assume that there are 4 werewolves and 4 Cabalists: P(Fretful Porpentine) = 4/18.
Let’s assume P(Drain Bead) = 12/18;
Then the probability of guessing the sides of those four players is bounded at a bit under 15%. If we do the analysis correctly (because guessing that amrussell was telling the truth really is functionally equivalent to guessing her alignment) the probablity drops to 10%.
Confirmed? Not completely, but close… and as close as I can get at the current time.
This is all the confirmation information that will be available to Idle Thoughts before he decides whether or not to trust me Tonight. Even if I give out the role of my suggestion, it will not change the amount by which I can be confirmed. However, by not giving out the role information, we will be better able to confirm Idle Thoughts Tomorrow. Perhaps some objective third parties could chime in on whether or not I’m being obtuse in thinking that I’ve revealed the proper amount of information.
Idle, I’m not doing these things willy nilly or to annoy you. I’ve thought though everything carefully (except for the MHaye thing on Day One).
Oh, and we probably should decide on who to lynch Today.
I’ve a question about this, though. It’s possible that the concept of Freemason recognizing each other via a “secret sign” could be interpreted just as flavor text for “Freemasons give Pleonast a name and get a response indicating if that person is another Freemason or not”.
If this is the case, just knowing what a Freemason knows (the “secret sign” and any other Freemasons he or she knows) doesn’t necessarily mean Idle Thoughts can use the secret sign to ID himself to Freemasons or ID other Freemasons. So…the only way Idle could “prove” his role by talking to a Freemason would be to out another Freemason? Idle would know who the other Freemasons are, but they wouldn’t know who he is.
Of course, this could be a complete and total misinterpretation on my part. If it isn’t, a different dead Townie role would be a better choice.
Hang on. I’ve been away from the game quite a bit recently and am trying to catch up. Are you now saying that you will NOT reveal amrussell’s and **Fretful’s ** roles right before Dusk toDay? Because I think that would be a mistake. If you are correct about both of those Roles, it would go a long way toward confirmation in my mind (not all the way, but a long way). And Town needs as much firm info as possible, since we have almost nothing right now. Having a (nearly) confirmed Coroner would be very helpful (and it would hopefully stop all this Idle/**sach **bickering).
Can you say Groundhog’s Day? 'Cause we’re about to go through the end of last two Days again and it’s not going to be pretty. As far as I can see, we’ve got no good suspects and little information to go on. Ugh.
In an effort to help myself get organized, here is the list of players, with the dead and those who have claimed and we seem to be sparing for the time being removed:
- Diomedes
- Kat
- Hockey Monkey
- CatInASuit
- HazelNutCoffee
- DiggitCamara
- Blaster Master
- nesta
- fluiddruid
- Pygmy Rugger
- MadTheSwine = dotchan
- Zoggie
- MHaye
- ShadowFacts
- Hal Briston - Killed Night Two
- Drain Bead - Lynched Day Two
- Rysto - Killed Night Two
- amrussell - Killed Night One - Town
- Fretful Porpentine - Killed Night One - Wolf - Zombie
- One and Only Wanderers - Lynched Day One - Cabal
- Idle Thoughts – claimed Witchdoctor
- sachertorte – claimed Coroner
So, presuming we decide to leave **Sach **and **Idle **alone for at least one more Day, then the people in green are who we have to choose from. Hope that’s marginally helpful.
Note: I will be in all-day meetings Tuesday and Wednesday. So that means I won’t be able to respond quickly or at all for much of the work day. The Day will end at the usual time of noon Pacific Time on Wednesday, but the Dusk message will likely be delayed.
Am I being whooshed here? 
Of course he hasn’t yet. What, do you think he’ll say who they are and THEN you go “yep, he’s right” and that will make you gain trust in my mind? Sorry, but if you do it the other way around, then I’ll believe more.
Well, seeing will be believing. You’ve said you’d reveal Hal and Rysto’s sides “later” too, but you have yet to do so.
Sorry, as I’ve said, I’m not going to talk with someone you merely say is “Town” until you have proven yourself to me as the Coroner.
And if I talk with someone you label as just “Town” I run the risk of talking with someone who has little or no info and thus, not being able to be confirmed. I’ve said this three or four times now.
I don’t know if you’re Town or Scum yet, much less the Coroner. I don’t trust you fully enough yet to take your word. Is this so hard to understand? Now if you can get a few more sides right or just one role, then I’ll be more apt to trust.
I disagree. I think guessing FP would have been the only guess that would have to be lucky.
DB and amrussell based on things they said (amr when he was alive and DB right after she was lynched) could have easily been guessed as Town by a Cabalist.
So you are not going to even reveal the sides of Hal or Rysto? Why not? Don’t you know them?
You keep saying this, so I’ll just keep saying: I’m not taking the chance of risking talking to someone I don’t know to be a Witch or Freemason or Detective or Seer. So until I know that…either from you or Pleonast, I will not be talking to anyone at Night.
Huh? How are the other Freemasons able to ever know of another in their lot? From what I read, it’s the secret sign…whatever they are, be it flavor in a post, a secret word, or some other kind of signal. Who knows? But whatever it is, why wouldn’t I be able to do it too (to the other Freemasons) upon learning what it is if I talk to a dead Freemason?