Mafia V: The Cult of Sekham

The Game Room
3281

[QUOTE=FlyingCowOfDoom]
That’s because both sides of this clusterfuck have convincing arguments. Well, whoever the real Monks are, curses on you for not coming forward while Zeriel was still alive!

–FCOD
[/QUOTE]

I would have if I wasn’t on vacation. I went on vacation without a roleclaim on purpose. I was still hoping that scum would try and recruit me. I didn’t want them to know I was a monk. I left with Zeriel still alive with the hope that he would be able to roleclaim for me if I was in danger of being dunked. I think the endgame snuck up on Zeriel and he didn’t realize that he should have identified me and left Cookies hidden. I guess he wasn’t comfortable with claiming for me, which is understandable.

I guess it’s because I know the state of the game, but to me its obvious that Idle is lying. The zuma drunken posts simply do not support Idle’s claims. I know you want to wait for zuma to return, but what could zuma possibly say that would dovetail with Idle’s story?** If zuma claims monk, then how could zuma denounce MHaye?** If zuma claims monk, then zuma is lying about knowing MHaye is not the Apprentice.
If zuma claims anything else, Idle is lying.

3282

[QUOTE=NAF1138]

I know you said it looked like a counter claim to you (or you said something like that), but it doesn’t look that way to me necessarily.
[/QUOTE]

He said MHaye is not the Apprentice. What else could that mean?

[QUOTE=NAF1138]
I don’t see any advantage to Idle thrownig away his strong townie cred on such a stupid scheme though.
[/QUOTE]

This puzzles me as well. But what’s the point of building up town cred if you don’t spend it. Idle is using his cred; to persuade you.

Okay. I’ll stop harping on the zuma thing. It’s so painfully obvious to me, but I’m not going to get into arguments about it. Especially, since I could be arguing with scum.

3283

Sorry everyone, haven’t been able to access the thread all weekend, and I just got all caught up. I’ll have an updated vote count later tonight.

3284

[QUOTE=sachertorte]
He said MHaye is not the Apprentice. What else could that mean?
This puzzles me as well. But what’s the point of building up town cred if you don’t spend it. Idle is using his cred; to persuade you.

Okay. I’ll stop harping on the zuma thing. It’s so painfully obvious to me, but I’m not going to get into arguments about it. Especially, since I could be arguing with scum.
[/QUOTE]

I suppose that is true. And harp on the zuma thing all you want. I don’t know what he meant, and he was clearly drunk, I would like to hear what he has to say.

3285

[QUOTE=FlyingCowOfDoom]
No, if you’re the Avatar the counts would be 5 Cult, 6 Town tomorrow.

–FCOD
[/QUOTE]

Huh? Are you honestly saying you believe that there are SIX cult right now? With or without a recruit? Because remember, Kat was dunked on Day Two (WITH THE HELP OF ME again, might I add). So that would give seven possible Cult without the recruit? What if they did recruit? Wouldn’t that be eight possible Cult and seven right now?

Your numbers are off.

3286

[QUOTE=sachertorte]
Especially, since I could be arguing with scum.
[/QUOTE]

You know what, the more I think about it the more this bothers me. OF COURSE you could be arguing with scum. That is true of the whole game at any point. If you are not going to argue your point just because you might be arguing with scum…why play? :dubious:

It’s little, but that strikes me as a very off thing to say.

3287

I’m really suprised that no one is commenting on what **Zuma ** actually said…especially the part about Diggit.

3288

FCoD, are you really thinking there are SIX scum right now? With or without the recruit? Because remember Kat was found back on Day Two (with MY HELP, again, I might add). That would mean you think there are seven scum even without the recruit and potential EIGHT that could be?

Geezus, this really is a win or lose thing.

[QUOTE=sachertorte]
That’s crazy and clearly scum motivated.
Why on earth would we waste MHaye’s investigation on you. We already know you are scum.
[/quote]

Interesting how you failed to note how I was saying ‘UNDER THE GUISE THAT YOU THINK I AM’ and made it into me saying “investigate me for sure!”. If you’re dunked, I know that he wouldn’t HAVE to investigate me in the FIRST PLACE because you’d come up scum!

Now you say it. :stuck_out_tongue: Was wondering all through the game what it was.

3289

[QUOTE=Idle Thoughts]
Huh? Are you honestly saying you believe that there are SIX cult right now? With or without a recruit? Because remember, Kat was dunked on Day Two (WITH THE HELP OF ME again, might I add). So that would give seven possible Cult without the recruit? What if they did recruit? Wouldn’t that be eight possible Cult and seven right now?

Your numbers are off.
[/QUOTE]
Yours are.

Start with six cult.

Kat was lynched - five Cult.

Night Six saw a recruit. Six Cult.

With 14 players that means right now there would be eight Town and six Cult. If we dunk the Avatar (whoever it turns out to be) the number of Cult drop to 5. Sekham’s Revenge kills a townie. The number of Townies drop to 7.

Overnight the Cult kills another townie. Dawn Tomorrow sees six Town and five Cult, just as FCoD said.

From that position, the Town can still win, with flawless play.

3290

[QUOTE=sachertorte]
I would have if I wasn’t on vacation. I went on vacation without a roleclaim on purpose. I was still hoping that scum would try and recruit me.
[/quote]

BS. I call major BS. You wanted to be MOD killed. You even said so right here.

Sure it was your second choice but you said right there that you were okay with it.

But what’s more, a few posts later you say (in this post):

Does that sound like the kind of talk a REAL MONK would do? Meanwhile, I’ve already pointed out the times on how it would work if you were the Prophet. Your last post in this game was ONE POST BEFORE BLASTER MASTER STARTED THE NOKILL NIGHT. ONE POST.

I think right when he started Night on whatever boards you have going, you put in your vote for recruitment and then left for your getaway, knowing that if you WERE ever dunked since then, at least you got the recruitment out of the way.

Oh PLEASE. WHY would I take him, then, as a fellow Monk if I were scum? WHY? Can you answer me that? Don’t you think, if I were scum, I’d have picked someone else who I knew would be a bit better? At least hold some weight and who didn’t just seemingly ruin all crediblity with those posts he made?

It’s not like I had a choice. HE IS THE OTHER MONK. And that explains why I’m as wanting more than anyone to hear from him…not to save my neck, although that would probably come with it…but just to hear what he felt about MHaye.

I don’t get why you’re building it up on “How did he, a Monk, know anything about MHaye?”. Gee, you think maybe it could have been because he SAW OR READ a post or two that was off? Again, look at me. I didn’t trust zuma in game FOUR. Did I know anything? No. It was just a FEELING that made me say “I think you’re lying”, and while I can’t wait to see what he has to offer, I think it’s very misleading to attribute him not believing MHaye to him not being a Monk.

I don’t believe him either.

3291

[QUOTE=MHaye]
Yours are.
[/quote]

Not really. I just didn’t know if he was thinking there had been a recruit yet or not. Apparently he (and you) does.

Depending on who gets dunked. If it’s the right person, we will. :mad:

3292

[QUOTE=NAF1138]
You know what, the more I think about it the more this bothers me. OF COURSE you could be arguing with scum. That is true of the whole game at any point. If you are not going to argue your point just because you might be arguing with scum…why play? :dubious:

It’s little, but that strikes me as a very off thing to say.
[/QUOTE]

It is especially true at this point. At the beginning of the game the vast majority of players are pro-town; this is no longer the case.
I’ve stated my views on zuma. I think the facts are readily apparent. I understand the desire to hear from zuma, but what are you going to do if zuma never shows up? What is your take on zuma’s comments as they are?

[QUOTE=Hockey Monkey]
I’m really suprised that no one is commenting on what **Zuma ** actually said…especially the part about Diggit.
[/QUOTE]

Well, I take this as zuma stating that he failed to counterclaim MHaye prior to Diggit’s dunking. In otherwords, zuma seems to imply that had he counterclaimed earlier, we might not have dunked Diggit. Is there something else here that I’m missing?

[QUOTE=Idle Thoughts]
Interesting how you failed to note how I was saying ‘UNDER THE GUISE THAT YOU THINK I AM’ and made it into me saying “investigate me for sure!”. If you’re dunked, I know that he wouldn’t HAVE to investigate me in the FIRST PLACE because you’d come up scum!
[/QUOTE]

No. What you said was:

[QUOTE=Idle Thoughts]

but let’s play by the notion you don’t know this or think he might come up Monk. So you dunk him and, IF BY SOME MIRACULOUS CHANCE she does come up Monk, then MHaye can investage me toNight to see if I’m the Avatar or not.
[/QUOTE]

How is your statement not asking MHaye to investigate you after I turn up Monk? What you are suggesting is a waste, pure and simple; and clearly anti-town.

You can’t backtrack what you said based on the “guise” that you already know your alignment. You can’t commingle ‘what you “know” to be true’ with your theoretical. You stated if sachertorte turns up Monk, MHaye can investigate Idle Thoughts. You can’t then slide in the assertion that you know this isn’t going to happen to explain your bad logic. You already asserted the conditional that “IF BY SOME MIRACULOUS CHANCE she does come up Monk”
Geez.

[QUOTE=Idle Thoughts]
BS. I call major BS. You wanted to be MOD killed. You even said so right here.

Sure it was your second choice but you said right there that you were okay with it.
[/QUOTE]

That was a list of options, not my *choices *in order of preference.

And here I was hoping to avoid pointless arguments with scum.

For Gods sakes, someone other than Idle Thoughts look at this discussion!

3293

[QUOTE=sachertorte]
It is especially true at this point. At the beginning of the game the vast majority of players are pro-town; this is no longer the case.
I’ve stated my views on zuma. I think the facts are readily apparent. I understand the desire to hear from zuma, but what are you going to do if zuma never shows up? What is your take on zuma’s comments as they are?

[/QUOTE]

My take on zuma’s comments as they are, a drunk person who is not convinced that MHaye is the doc. That was my initial reaction to the comment.

If zuma never shows up again I will probably decide that this game is FUBAR and walk away myself.

3294

[QUOTE=Idle Thoughts]
Oh PLEASE. WHY would I take him, then, as a fellow Monk if I were scum? WHY? Can you answer me that? Don’t you think, if I were scum, I’d have picked someone else who I knew would be a bit better? At least hold some weight and who didn’t just seemingly ruin all crediblity with those posts he made?
[/QUOTE]

I think you just fucked up.
I also think you didn’t have any other choice. I’m assuming that whatever scum is out there could not stand as a fellow Monk of Zeriel’s. For example, NAF, you couldn’t pick NAF because Zeriel was crazy suspicious of NAF. Claiming NAF was your fellow monk would be suicide. I’m guessing you looked down the list of scum to find the scum who Zeriel never voted for and were left with just you and zuma.

3295

[QUOTE=sachertorte]
How is your statement not asking MHaye to investigate you after I turn up Monk?
[/quote]

Another twist. I like it, but it’s glaringly obvious.

I said by ‘SOME MIRACULOUS CHANCE’

What you are suggesting is a waste, pure and simple; and clearly anti-town.

You’re being deliberately obtuse again. I KNOW WHAT I KNOW. Does TOWN know what I know? Of course not. So I don’t expect my “I know I’m a Monk, so don’t vote for me” to work. Therefore I’m trying to THEORERIZE IT from the standpoint of someone who DOESN’T KNOW WHAT TO THINK and might try it out…JUST SO THEY CAN SEE YOU’RE SCUM THEREFORE KNOW WHAT I KNOW.

That makes the whole investigate me thing REDUNDANT then because they’d already know, from your death, that MHaye is full of BS too.

Funny, they were numbered. Maybe they should have been bulleted? Now who’s the one backtracking? :rolleyes:

Yeah, that’s something I should do myself.

3296

[QUOTE=Idle Thoughts]
Not really. I just didn’t know if he was thinking there had been a recruit yet or not. Apparently he (and you) does.
[/quote]
Actually, he and I are thinking along the same lines as far as numbers go. Pessimistically.

Strictly speaking, of course, it’s not the very worst case. The very worst is that the Cult started with seven members, lost one and still has the recruit to claim. If that’s the case then we’re in deep trouble.

Currently he split is 8 - 6 in the Town’s favour.

We execute a Cultist. 8 - 5.
They recruit. 7-6.
We execute a Cultist. 7 - 5.
They kill a Townie. 6 - 5.
We execute the Avatar. 6 - 4.
Sekham’s Revenge strikes down a Townie. 5 - 4.
They kill a Townie. 4 - 4. They win.

There is no way the town can win if there are six Cultists before the recruit.

I admit I hadn’t thought about that scenario, probably because I downgraded my estimate of Cultist numbers from 7 to 6 on about Day 2 (give or take a Day.)

Now slow down so a guy can read here…

3297

[QUOTE=Idle Thoughts]
Funny, they were numbered. Maybe they should have been bulleted?
[/QUOTE]

Oh for…
Look at the list. Clearly my preference is for number 4! How can you look at that list and say I listed them in order of preference. I think it is obvious that I would prefer to stay in the game and just be missing for the two weeks. That’s what I argued for and thats what I got.

3298

[QUOTE=sachertorte]
I think you just fucked up.
I also think you didn’t have any other choice. I’m assuming that whatever scum is out there could not stand as a fellow Monk of Zeriel’s. For example, NAF, you couldn’t pick NAF because Zeriel was crazy suspicious of NAF. Claiming NAF was your fellow monk would be suicide. I’m guessing you looked down the list of scum to find the scum who Zeriel never voted for and were left with just you and zuma.
[/QUOTE]

Fucked up how? Wha..by not seeing his posts or reading them? I saw them and even REPLIED to them a bit before the claims. Post.

Why would I name NAF as one? He’s not a Monk and I don’t even know IF he’s even pro-town. WHY would I name anyone else one when I already KNOW who the last one is? I named who I did because ZUMA IS THE LAST MONK.

3299

[QUOTE=MHaye]
Actually, he and I are thinking along the same lines as far as numbers go. Pessimistically.

Strictly speaking, of course, it’s not the very worst case. The very worst is that the Cult started with seven members, lost one and still has the recruit to claim. If that’s the case then we’re in deep trouble.

Currently he split is 8 - 6 in the Town’s favour.

We execute a Cultist. 8 - 5.
They recruit. 7-6.
We execute a Cultist. 7 - 5.
They kill a Townie. 6 - 5.
We execute the Avatar. 6 - 4.
Sekham’s Revenge strikes down a Townie. 5 - 4.
They kill a Townie. 4 - 4. They win.

There is no way the town can win if there are six Cultists before the recruit.

I admit I hadn’t thought about that scenario, probably because I downgraded my estimate of Cultist numbers from 7 to 6 on about Day 2 (give or take a Day.)

Now slow down so a guy can read here…
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, well, I’m hoping there’s not that many either…but town can sure score an awesome THREESOME, at least, right now. I just hope they don’t have to kill me to find it out for themselves. I fear they may, but either or, your days are numbered because whether they kill me now or try for Sach first…it’s all over.

3300

First things first.

I am a monk, as Idle said. Second, my apologies for my drunken post friday night/sat morning. I’ve paid for that in more ways than one. My thinking, as I can recall, at the time, was after Diggit was strung up due to MHaye’s “investigation”, followed by the oh-so-convenient failure to get a result, was that he had been lying, and I regretted not voicing some caution before Diggit was lynched.

I annoyed my friends with all this mafia talk to no end that night. I’ll feel terrible if that one night of irresponsible over-indulgence causes us to lose this game. If you have any further questions about that I’ll answer them.

Of course what has transpired since has me convinced that he was recruited, since sach and cookies are lying about being monks. His recruitment on the no-kill night is the only thing that makes sense. The mafia’s actions since the no-kill night make no sense whatsoever, given their history of ignoring claimed roles and looking for the apprentice, unless they successfully recruited MHaye. After the no-kill night they all of a sudden go in a different direction?

And then they nail the priest? I think there’s a good chance Fretful was investigated by MHaye and he told them he was the priest. They must have had a good idea on the no-kill night that MHaye was the apprentice, and hey, recruiting him is a hell of a lot better for their side than killing him!

If we lose this game our biggest mistake was not shutting down sach’s non-stop oracle/apprentice “strategy” discussion on day 1, as I believe that played a huge part in identifying Hal and MHaye.

And is MHaye going to have us believe that after all those investigations, the best he can do is wrongly identifying diggit? He’s lost his investigatory power since being recruited, which explains the convenient non-result last night.

I believe we may be in, or close to lynch or lose, and they can afford to send two fake monks and MHaye’s “confirmation” of sach being a monk at us.

And what was up with sach’s “oh gee, I was trying to get killed”? WIFOM, maybe, but it looks like a cultist doing the classic “something a cultist would never do”.