Mafia V: The Cult of Sekham

[Idle_Thoughts]

@sachertorte

Oh for…
Look at the list. Clearly my preference is for number 4! How can you look at that list and say I listed them in order of preference. I think it is obvious that I would prefer to stay in the game and just be missing for the two weeks. That’s what I argued for and thats what I got.

Because I didn’t know until just now when you said it. Sorry but FIRST OF ALL, they were numbered, in case you just realized that right now.

Second of all, look at your wording. For 1, you say “I’m okay with it”

For 2 you say “I’m okay with it” BUT “I don’t know if you guys would want to do that.”

For 3 you leave out the “I’m okay with it” and just stick with the “I don’t know if you guys would want to do that”.

So yeah, it reads like preference when you go down the list.

On number four you don’t say anything at all but the option.

And what of your post a bit after that? How you were TRYING to get dunked?

[Idle_Thoughts]

Oh, great God in heaven it’s good to see you, zuma.

So I see it’s kinda like what USC thinks and FCoD used to think. And what I think it HAS to be. MHaye being recruited.

[zuma]

Yes my apologies. Like I said, it’s the ONLY thing that explains the cult’s sudden non-interest if finding the apprentice. They had already found him. And how likly is it that after all of MHaye’s “investigations”, he discovers only 1 non-believer, who was actually a townie!

It’s possible the cult radically changed their night strategy for no apparent reason, and it’s possible that the only non-believer MHaye managed to find was in fact a townie, but come on.

I’ll hand it to the cult though… they’ve played a masterful game, and I think if they do win sach and his utter refusal on day 1 to shut up about the oracle/apprentice wins him the MVP of this game. I do hope we still have a chance though, but I fear this is their endgame playing out right now.

[sachertorte]

@Idle Thoughts

How you were TRYING to get dunked?

I never said I was trying to get dunked. I was trying to get killed, well recruited to be precise, but I didn’t want to say that.

[zuma]

@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies

As sarchertorte stated above, Idle is working it so hard because it takes a lot of work to pull off such an elaborate con with only one “public” face.

Oh come ON, Cookies! Does nobody remember M4? Idle “working it hard” when wrongly accused (by you and your scum friends’ false role claim) is supposed to be evidence against him? Please. ANYONE who was around for M4 knows that argument is crap.

[sachertorte]

@zuma

Yes my apologies. Like I said, it’s the ONLY thing that explains the cult’s sudden non-interest if finding the apprentice. They had already found him.

Uh. No. I don’t think the scum are suddenly not interested in finding the Apprentice. They killed Zeriel last night because MHaye was highly likely to be protected last night. Scum don’t want to waste a kill so they went after the next best choice: Zeriel - confirmed town.

[CatInASuit]

@sachertorte

Uh. No. I don’t think the scum are suddenly not interested in finding the Apprentice. They killed Zeriel last night because MHaye was highly likely to be protected last night. Scum don’t want to waste a kill so they went after the next best choice: Zeriel - confirmed town.

Ummm, sachertorte, not wanting to blow my own trumpet and such but would not the next best choice target after **MHaye ** be myself???

What is your reasoning for saying **Zeriel ** instead?

[zuma]

And Catina is only 50% effective! They stood a good chance of killing MHaye, if that’s what they wanted to do. They stood an excellent chance of killing Catina, if they wanted to pave the way to MHaye. But, well Idle and I know that MHaye was almost certainly converted. A converted MHaye easily explains the monk gambit they’re trying right now, MHaye’s “results” which ended in a townie death, and MHaye’s “non-reading” last night, now that he no longer has his power, and their apparent lack of concern about finding the apprentice. As I said it may also explain the priest kill.

A non-converted MHaye, for those of you who don’t know almost for certain that he must have been converted, leaves you with a big, long streak of unlikely bad luck. Diggit was town? Ooops! Oh no, I got no result last night! Gee, I wonder why the cult isn’t after the apprentice anymore?

A converted MHaye explains ALL those things.

[Hockey_Monkey]

@sachertorte

SNIPPED
This puzzles me as well. But what’s the point of building up town cred if you don’t spend it. Idle is using his cred; to persuade you.

SNIPPED.

Exactly! Idle is spending the credibility he earned with Kat’s death. Sorry Idle, but I don’t believe you. Your “emotional” pleas don’t ring true to me in this game. Last time you were going to be dunked despite your pleas, but a clarification of the rules got you off…not your 50 pt fonts. Besides, I don’t see how your status in one game effects your status in another. I think you are playing this one for all it’s worth, hoping that you will pull on some heartstrings, and we’ll all go “Yeah, the same thing happened in another game, and he is acting the same way, so he must be telling the truth.” Pbbbbt! Nice try Idle but I ain’t buyin’ it!

Vote stands!

[Santo_Rugger]

I dunno what to think right now, but I do know this: If MHaye got converted, the game is all but over. The thing is, if we trust him today, and he did get converted, we’re SOL. If we chose not to trust him today, and he didn’t get converted, we may still have a chance.

[Pleonast]

@Pygmy Rugger

I dunno what to think right now, but I do know this: If MHaye got converted, the game is all but over. The thing is, if we trust him today, and he did get converted, we’re SOL. If we chose not to trust him today, and he didn’t get converted, we may still have a chance.

I agree that if MHaye got converted, then it’s game over. But that doesn’t give any credence to Idle and zuma.

The ideal course of action would be to not believe any of the Monk claimers and to without hold judgement on MHaye. Wait another Night to see if MHaye can come up with a good investigation. That means we should find an alternative dunkee for to Day.

I suggest someone from Group E, the Unknowns: USCDiver, NAF, Kyrie, Pygmy, Queuing. Depending on the scenario, from 1 to 4 of these are Cult. I don’t have a strong feel for any of them at the moment, so convince me one of them is worth voting for. I’m open to changing my vote to any of them. Voting to dunk sachertorte, in hopes of confirming MHaye, is nonproductive.

It’s good to see that zuma has posted. Doesn’t change my mind though. Idle’s denials sound so scummy to me it’s hard for to look for rational arguments. I’m unconvinced.

In 3 of my 4 scenarios, Idle is Cult. The one scenario that he is not, is so difficult for the Town, it seems silly to burn our chances on it.

[Queuing]

@Pygmy Rugger

I dunno what to think right now, but I do know this: If MHaye got converted, the game is all but over. The thing is, if we trust him today, and he did get converted, we’re SOL. If we chose not to trust him today, and he didn’t get converted, we may still have a chance.

Seconded.

[Queuing]

@Pleonast

Voting to dunk sachertorte, in hopes of confirming MHaye, is nonproductive.

I don’t get this. Why is unproductive? Doesn’t your plan just push back the decision another Day?

However if you want to choose one of those five my vote would probably be for Kyrie. The reasoning is that clockwork Jackal looked pretty damn scummy to a number of people early on, much like Arizona did. This was before the scum had any chance to gather, talk and institute a plan. Arizona went out in a much bigger blaze drawing our attention. It is possible that he flamed out as he did to save another scum, particularly is Arizona had a very good reason as Blaster claimed he did.

NAF, well I have always thought he was a believer, and I think his post about walking away is understandable only from believer POV, as that is sort of what I feel. I feel this game is broken due to the large number of well…quitters. I believe I have made this well known

Pygmy, I could still say as scum, but the main reason I believed he was scum was because of the people he took over from.

USC- he also has been away once or twice, but overall I feel that he has participated. I really don’t have a read on him at all.

Myself? Well I am a believer- vanilla citizen. If you have any questions feel free to ask them, however I feel that I have played this game very consistently. From the very beginning I wanted everyone to shut the hell up about power roles. Yes even when Zerial was maybe our only remaining monk - at least a confirmed one. That is the only reason I have seen people to say I am scum—that I didn’t want the monks to claim. This was exactly true however. What I wanted was all of us to shut up about it and let the monks decide. I had no idea how many existed and I felt since they had more perfect knowledge then I did that they should decide for themselves.

That all said – you want me to pick a horse in this battle? I think mhaye was converted. It is the best explanation for that no kill night. Unless the “protect all” power is no longer available. If Fretful used the power then we have another explanation for that night. If not, then…

I also think it might be time for complete disclosure from all of our power roles. Pleonast what powers do you have? Catina do you still have the special 1 night power?

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

I want to take a moment and point out that “monk crumbs” gets my vote for Oxymoron of the Year. I mentioned them as an afterthought that might be helpful to the town, but since my counterpart has gone through all of the trouble to so colorfully present his carefully fabricated crumbs, here are my truthful ones:

219

417

450

581

750

All of my Kat-related posts prior to her dunking are linked in some way to attempting to defend sachertorte without being too obvious or weak in my logic and/or sniff out scum in those who were moving against him. They can be found in 1154, 1171. I doubted myself and feared that my repeated defenses of sachertorte were getting too risky, so I unvoted. And though I did not get back to the game in time to put another vote that doesn’t change the intent with which I made my accusations and vote.

1430

1882

1944

2016

Here is another interesting cluster, involving my favorite faker, Idle. I say it is interesting because it demonstrates a level of potential collusion between Idle and FCOD that I find quite interesting considering how FCOD has behaved so far toDay. 2089, 2091, 2094, 2098,
2102, 2104,
2113, 2126

Still on a tangent away from monk crumbs, Idle’s interest was piqued by my lingering suspicions of Hockey, which I believe he nurtured as a potential wedge with which to cast suspicion on me when he might need/want to: 2212 and 2563

Back to monk crumbs…

2497

And another crumb-stall to examine that zuma does indeed have a pattern of collusion of ideas with Idle, as he echoes Idle’s curiosity as to why I was still suspicious of Hockey. 2563, 2567,
2568,
2570.

Another non-crumb one-off with FCOD trying to stir stuff up based on me not voting to kill townies enough: 2768, 2681.

Aaaaand…we’re back to monk crumbs…

2789, related to that, we have 2791, which coupled with MHaye’s investigation of Diggit tipped the scales towards voting for him, but I see that doing so has not gotten FCOD off of my case.

More monk crumb fun…

2868

3079

Aaaaaand that’s a wrap as of post #3307, which is the last post I’ve read so far.

In closing, I’d like to advance the thought that Zeriel being selected for last night’s kill leads me toward the hunch that the recruitment has not yet taken place. I’m also moving FCOD right up behind Idle and zuma on my dunk list.

As for why I didn’t claim when Zeriel was still around, I decided to go against the grain of popular opinion, to try and be less predictable in the hopes that it might catalyze a mis-step. Claiming on my behalf and sachertorte’s while sachertorte was not immediately available to confirm was a gamble, and it is a gamble that has actually paid off much more than I could’ve anticipated. The problem is that the rest of the town has been having some trouble seeing the opportunity that now lays before them.

[zuma]

@Pleonast

The ideal course of action would be to not believe any of the Monk claimers and to without hold judgement on MHaye. Wait another Night to see if MHaye can come up with a good investigation.

Pleonast, the problem here is that MHaye can just pull another “oops no result” out of his hat. More likely he’d finger another innocent as scum, at which point the game could be over. Say another innocent townie goes tonight, then the scum get a kill in, THEN MHaye comes out with a bogus investigation. That could be FOUR townies in a row killed off. We don’t know what our margin for error is at this point, but it has to be thin.

[CatInASuit]

Just a note for everybody

Sekham’s Revenge if the Avatar is dunked.

@Blaster Master

You believe yourself to be as any other cultist; however, you are very special in the eyes of Sekham. Unbeknownst even to you, he intends to use your body as his Earthly form when the time has come to raise his army once again. Until then, you will continue to behave as any other cultist; however, upon your death, he who is most responsible (chosen randomly among all voters) will incur the wrath of Sekham and will be smitten.

Bolding Mine

In other words, anyone who votes for a Cultist is at risk if the dunked Cultist is the Avatar, regardless of affiliation.

Please note that this could potentially win the game for either side given that following a Cultist kill, if the Avatar strikes a townie down, the Cult will take a second one down shortly afterwards.

If the Avatar strikes down a Cultist, then they lose two players in quick succession and probably revealing a lot more than they would want in terms of their tactics.

[FlyingCowOfDoom]

I have no idea what to do. No idea whatsoever. I’m not sure why, but my gut is telling me that **Idle **and **zuma **are telling the truth and **MHaye **was converted. Logically, I want to vote for Idle. But I can’t bring myself to do it…

I have to sleep on this. Does anyone know…can the Cult choose to no-kill?

–FCOD

[Pleonast]

@Pleonast

Voting to dunk sachertorte, in hopes of confirming MHaye, is nonproductive.

I say this because it means killing a Townie to confirm another Townie. Assuming they’re Town. Much better to dunk someone MHaye says is scum.

I think Hockey is a much more likely target to be converted. She was there, in the open, the perfect recruiting candidate. For the scum to pick MHaye out of the blue just seems too improbable.

As for why the Cult killed Zeriel–because CatinaSuit wouldn’t protect a Monk, when the Apprentice is out in the open. The Disciple either took the 50% protection gamble, or spent the one-shot perfect protection. So the Cult took the easy, but valuable, target. And without a confirmed Monk, the Cult could cast doubt on the Apprentice while making their own false claims. The perfect set up to get the Town to ignore our power role and best chance of winning.

@zuma

Pleonast, the problem here is that MHaye can just pull another “oops no result” out of his hat. More likely he’d finger another innocent as scum, at which point the game could be over. Say another innocent townie goes tonight, then the scum get a kill in, THEN MHaye comes out with a bogus investigation. That could be FOUR townies in a row killed off. We don’t know what our margin for error is at this point, but it has to be thin.

Hehe, you’re stridency is beginning to match Idle’s. And that doesn’t help your case.

@Queuing

From the very beginning I wanted everyone to shut the hell up about power roles. Yes even when Zerial was maybe our only remaining monk - at least a confirmed one. That is the only reason I have seen people to say I am scum—that I didn’t want the monks to claim. This was exactly true however. What I wanted was all of us to shut up about it and let the monks decide. I had no idea how many existed and I felt since they had more perfect knowledge then I did that they should decide for themselves.
…
I also think it might be time for complete disclosure from all of our power roles. Pleonast what powers do you have? Catina do you still have the special 1 night power?

Uh, you have a consistency problem here. You wanted to let the Monks decide about claiming. And then you ask the remaining Town power roles to reveal their powers. Secrecy is our best weapon.

[zuma]

Stridency doesn’t help my case? Should I go back to being quiet?

I was just pointing out a flaw in your strategy. MHaye would just come back with a fake investigation, and up to FOUR townies would die during that time.

[Idle_Thoughts]

@Hockey Monkey

Exactly! Idle is spending the credibility he earned with Kat’s death. Sorry Idle, but I don’t believe you. Your “emotional” pleas don’t ring true to me in this game. Last time you were going to be dunked despite your pleas, but a clarification of the rules got you off…not your 50 pt fonts. Besides, I don’t see how your status in one game effects your status in another. I think you are playing this one for all it’s worth, hoping that you will pull on some heartstrings, and we’ll all go “Yeah, the same thing happened in another game, and he is acting the same way, so he must be telling the truth.” Pbbbbt! Nice try Idle but I ain’t buyin’ it!

Vote stands!

Hey, that’s fine. I don’t know what else I can say or tell you. I just hope it’s not too late after you help kill off another town.

Because then it’s going to be too late for “I didn’t know! He seemed so scummy!”

[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Here is another interesting cluster, involving my favorite faker, Idle. I say it is interesting because it demonstrates a level of potential collusion between Idle and FCOD that I find quite interesting considering how FCOD has behaved so far toDay. 2089, 2091, 2094, 2098,
2102, 2104,
2113, 2126

So you exhibit shady behavior and we both call you on it and WE’RE the shady ones for it? :rolleyes:

Still on a tangent away from monk crumbs, Idle’s interest was piqued by my lingering suspicions of Hockey, which I believe he nurtured as a potential wedge with which to cast suspicion on me when he might need/want to: 2212 and 2563

Again, and this was NOT shady on you…HOW?

And another crumb-stall to examine that zuma does indeed have a pattern of collusion of ideas with Idle, as he echoes Idle’s curiosity as to why I was still suspicious of Hockey. 2563, 2567,
2568,
2570.

Thanks for finding more crumbs that zuma and I had left for each other!
Seriously, though, and why couldn’t this be proof that zuma and I are the TRUE MONKS?

In closing, I’d like to advance the thought that Zeriel being selected for last night’s kill leads me toward the hunch that the recruitment has not yet taken place. I’m also moving FCOD right up behind Idle and zuma on my dunk list.

I don’t believe that for a second. Plus, you’re contradicting what’s going on. MHaye apprently checked out FCOD already and said he was clean, so if recruitment, to you, hasn’t happened, then how do you explain that?
Ah HA.

Caught.