Mafia V: The Cult of Sekham

The Game Room
1921

If he’s a Cultist he’s playing a very risky game - one that is almost certain to get him killed. I’m tempted to say that it’d be unlikely for a Cultist to come up with such a bizarre reason for their behavior, but I suppose it might be one of those, “it’s so crazy it just might work!” kind of schemes.

The thing is, even if he IS town, I’m not sure how much information we can glean from that. It would be natural to suspect the people who were so quick to vote for him at the beginning of the Day, but (I might have already said this) his behavior was so scummy that I wouldn’t be surprised if the Cultists had, for the most part, just hung back and let us whip ourselves into a frenzy without any help from them.

1922

I agree that Mad’s behavior is strange; so strange I am almost tempted to think he is not Cult. The reason I have kept my vote on him is his lack of participation throughout the game. Everyone else I am reasonably suspicions of (Hockey Monkey, Captain Klutz) has at least participated in the game and provided some analysis. Mad the Swine has provided pretty close to nothing. Even now, when he is saying “ah shucks, I was just messin’ with ya’ll” he isn’t providing any insight as to who he thinks is Cult. If he is town (and I really don’t think he is) he’s not being very much use to the town.

1923

[QUOTE=NAF1138]
I don’t know what Mad is, but I do know that he lied. Addmitting that you are playing falsly in an attempt to manipulate the other players in the game doesn’t make it any less of a lie.

Lynch all liars.

The problem is, I don’t know what else to say for the rest of the day. I guess we could all talk about what we think of the Mad lynch some more.
[/QUOTE]

  • 1

–FCOD

1924

If he is the psychopath he may know it, and may have chosen not to kill.

[QUOTE=Blaster Master]
Sorry, I missed some questions from yesterday… I’m still catching up.

I apparently have a contradiction between my role description and role summary regarding the Psychopath; my apologies for the uncertainty. The Psychopath is not required to make a kill every night after activation; afterall, he only wants to kill the followers of Nairu and Sekham, not EVERYONE.
Also, a question regarding the Oracle or Apprentice, they will always get their result for the Night, even if they are killed or converted, provided they entered the Night alive. A Psychopath kill, Cultist kill, or Cultist conversion occurs after all other Night actions like investigations, prayers, alchemy, etc.
[/QUOTE]

From here

So we still don’t know about the psychopath for sure yet, and maybe never will.

1925

Time to catch up and hopefully be able to stay in this topic all day today (unlike yesterday when I actually had a life for a couple hours. :open_mouth:

[QUOTE=Zeriel]
That’s the most messed up crap I’ve ever heard. Hell, this little song and dance makes you look even more scummy, you realize that?
[/QUOTE]

I dunno. I read it over a few times and I don’t buy it. However it could be one of those things that sounds so crazy and preposterious that it could be true. I guess we’ll all probably see though because I’m still happy with my vote.

Added on here after reaching the talk of ending Day before the weekend, sounds good to me. That still gives everyone a full day and a half (today and tomorrow) to talk and deliberate over things. Maybe something else will come to light before then, but I agree the weekend is slow anyway and with Harry Potter coming out, I feel it may slow to a crawl in here.

[QUOTE=Captain Klutz]
Yes, going to a tie was another possibility, one that I perhaps didn’t give enough thought to. Note that in a tie, we are only allowed to vote for one of the tied voters, so the dunkee would still be either Hockey Monkey or Scuba_Ben.

And yes, I did question Hockey Monkey’s late claim. Late role claims make life difficult for the town so I asked her why she waited so long.

But I accept that I was perhaps a bit hasty in deciding on the immediate dunk.
[/QUOTE]

Not defending her, but this is one of the problems I see arrising when people vote late and wait until the last minute to vote themselves. Had the votes come earlier, maybe the role claim would have too?

And moving on, I see SCL pointed this out too.

[QUOTE=sachertorte]
Well, at least Pasta is taking action about being so quiet. Personally, with all the substitutions and lack of participation, I’m tempted to leave myself.
[/QUOTE]

Huh. I wonder how many subs that is now.

Well, welcome amrussell.

Seems that Sach, SCL, and Zeriel have found a nice friendship niche with each other based on agreeing so much. That’ll be interesting to follow. SCL I have no read or suspicions on really one way or another (which I’m sure she’s glad over. :p), but I’ve had many strong suspicions of sach in this game in the past and while I’ve never really had Zeriel on my radar, I’ve disagreed with him in the game a few times.

[QUOTE=Fretful Porpentine]
I really don’t know what I think of Mad. Everything he says is starting to sound increasingly bizarre … but I feel sort of like he’d be sounding less bizarre if he were actually scum. My guess for now is either vanilla Nonbeliever (which has got to be the most thankless role in the game) or Psychopath.
[/QUOTE]

Am I missing something here? As far as I know the Psychopath doesn’t even know he or she is the Psycho until they’re activated. And based on the kills so far (most notably last Night’s) it doesn’t seem likely that the Psychopath has been activated yet.
ANDDDD, right away I see that’s been answered already. :stuck_out_tongue: Maybe I should start reading the replies first and THEN going back and replying.

1926

This whole **MadTheSwine ** thing has got my antennae twitching big time. Something’s wrong and I don’t know what it is…

I’ve been running scenarios through my head and the only thing that is making sense to me is that he wants to die! I don’t know what the implications for the town are. It would depend on whether **Mad ** is pro-scum or pro-town. Say he is pro-scum, we dunk him, and he’s a bomb activated by water. Say he is pro-town, we dunk him, and he’s some kind of Martyr that can bring back a dead soul. I know, I know, it sounds crazy, but I don’t think he is Cult. He played brilliantly in the Pirates game, and I dunno, this is just weird.

I’d like to have some discussion about what his motives are for getting dunked before I place a vote.

1927

[QUOTE=Hockey Monkey]
I’d like to have some discussion about what his motives are for getting dunked before I place a vote.
[/QUOTE]

Well he has said it was part of some grand plan of his. Besides how the hell are we ever going to know his motives? Maybe he just regrets his decision about signing up for the game and wants out, but doesn’t want to add to the huge number of subs. Maybe he is just crazy. Maybe just sees writing on the wall. Who knows?

What we do know is that Hal voted for him. That his stated defense is a) if I was scum wouldn’t I have roleclaimed by now? and b) my acting scummy was all a big plan to catch scum.

To both of those I think we can just say, huh?! Maybe followed by a what?!.

Further discussion of Mad seems pointless, particularly when he himself seems reluctant to give us any reason to not vote for him. Why am I going to waste my time trying to save someone when they don’t want to put any effort into themselves? Why should I/we both discussing something we may never get an answer to just because its odd?

I say we dunk Mad, and we do so tomorrow night. I say we use this time as Day 5 and begin to formulate a plan for the next dunk.

It seems to me the people who have been mentioned by a number of people as “pinging the scumdar” are as follows:

Pleonast
Fluiddruid
Zeriel
Sachertorte
Malacandra
Queuing.

Let us discuss these people now, and leave Mad strung up in the cage. We can start with me if you would like.
I am a citizen. Hal FOS’d me, but at the sametime said he thought I was town. This leads me to believe that Hal didn’t investigate me, but rather it was just his feelings.

I FOS’d DiggitCamara (v1) and Pleonast on Day 1. This was for quick votes and unvotes of people, when the reason for the vote was to get the person to talk, but the unvote happened with no discussion from the player voted for. I voted for DiggitCamara (v1)

Day 2 I looked through the mtgman voting record, and found 2 people suspicous, Hal Briston and DiggitCamara (v1). This was for the placement of their votes (3rd and 4th) along with no or weak reasons given. I voted for Hal Briston.

Day 3 I reviewed Scuba Ben’s posts, and my analysis lead me to believe either scum or a non-helpful believer. Many people followed my lead, but I do not believe I was the 1st person to vote for Scuba. I have not checked.

Day 4 I took a quick look at Hal Briston’s posts. I saw the had voted for Mad, and in correlation with the rest of Mad’s behavior I placed my vote on Mad. I did this immediately after reading Hal’s posts, and I was the 1st person to vote for Mad.

This is from memory as I have not re-read the thread, however my actions are accurate.

1928

Reading ** Pasta’s** posts isn’t even a bit helpful to me - I’ve given up on that. I am having a look at Hal’s posts, because that’s where I think most info lies just now:
Hal votes Malacandra - has had one chance to investigate. Mal vs zuma had happened on Day 1. Either a) he investigated neither; b) he investigated zuma and found him a Believer; c) he investigated Mal and found Non-believer. If b), then it tells us very little: Hal may have decided one of them was scum and so plumped for Mal, or at least have been trusting his gut as much as his investigation. If c), it obviously looks bad for Mal, but it’s still not conclusive. But it’s still at least as likely to be a).

Afterthought: Given that Hal said this, however:

it does make b) a bit more likely. Which might explain the Mal vote.

I think the next interesting post he makes is this, on Day 2:

My bolding- if the Oracle’s job is to leave breadcrumbs, specifically labelling a vote as a pure gut call seems like an odd thing to say. Now, I think Mad has done plenty to incriminate himself - but I’m not convinced Hal investigated him. I think he investigated sachertorte and breadcrumbed with the “at least in my eyes” comment.

So, if I had to stick my neck out, I’d say Hal’s investigations went:
Night 1: zuma, town
Night 2: sachertorte, town.
obviously, I’m not advocating putting too much weight on Night 2. It’s only a possibility and we don’t, at this point, have anybody in the clear, sad to say.

The next area I want to investigate is Kat’s list of FOS’s. A known scum would, in a list of four, include at least one fellow scum as camouflage (I think). Her lightest FOS was on Pleonast, so I’m going to look at him again tomorrow.

PS - for abbreviation, AMR is fine. Also, male.

1929

Without giving away information away, the answer is potentially yes for both. That is, it is possible that a secret role has additional information about it as in, how many there are and/or how many secret roles there are. Further, it is also possible that a secret role has no knowledge of his role.

1930

[QUOTE=Blaster Master]
Without giving away information away, the answer is potentially yes for both. That is, it is possible that a secret role has additional information about it as in, how many there are and/or how many secret roles there are. Further, it is also possible that a secret role has no knowledge of his role.
[/QUOTE]

:eek: You are an evil and sadistic person.

waits for the lightening bolt of mod-kill to descend upon her

1931

[QUOTE=HazelNutCoffee]
:eek: You are an evil and sadistic person.

waits for the lightening bolt of mod-kill to descend upon her
[/QUOTE]

Thank you! :smiley:

Really, though, what’s the point of secrets if you blab about them?

1932

[QUOTE=DiggitCamara]
If he were the Psychopath he wouldn’t know it, unless he had been activated.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, I know that – that’s why I’m saying that he could be a vanilla Non-believer OR the psychopath. He looks like a vanilla Non-believer to me, but that means there’s a 1 in x chance that he’s really the psychopath, since they behave identically until the psychopath is activated. If that makes any sense at all.

1933

[QUOTE=HazelNutCoffee]
:eek: You are an evil and sadistic person.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t think BM’s quite sunk to the depths of “bastard moddery” - yet.

On MadTheSwine, the way he’s been playing in this game does somewhat resemble his play in the Pirates game. Specifically, he would do a “fan dance” - inviting the players to try guessing who he’d followed the previous night and what he saw, before suddenly revealing all.

This play feels like he’s doing something similar, but (imo) doesn’t really help me gauge whether he’s a Cultist or not. To be honest, right now my gut says he’s not (unless he’s doing this just to get out of the game).

Having lost this evening to a long doze, I’m a bit behind on my analysis of HazelNutCoffee - I’ve done only 20 posts to date out of nearly 100. If I can get some done before retiring, I will.

1934

[QUOTE=Queuing]
I FOS’d DiggitCamara (v1) and Pleonast on Day 1. This was for quick votes and unvotes of people, when the reason for the vote was to get the person to talk, but the unvote happened with no discussion from the player voted for. I voted for DiggitCamara (v1)
[/QUOTE]
Bolding added. How much do I have to knock you over the head about this? I stated my reason for random votes multiple times: [ol]
[] 221: And, on the basis of starting discussion, I’ll randomly choose Vote USCDiver [] 240: We need to have a something to work with. That means players need to post. Random votes will do that. [] 248: Our goal is to get people posting. … I think we need to get everyone in here and talking. Voting aggressively (even randomly) does that. [] 303: Random votes as advocated by me are a tool for bootstrapping the discuss in the early part of the first Day. [] 400: I use random votes at the start of the first Day to jumpstart discussion. Discussion in general, not necessarily from the person voted for. [] 421: The point of random voting isn’t to discuss the votee, but to generate discussion. Any discussion. [/ol] I’m not sure why you have this persistent misunderstanding that random voting is meant to get the target to start talking, when from the beginning I’ve stated my random votes are to start discussion (period). Are you even reading my posts, or just projecting your dislike of my strategy? I’ve thought you’ve been playing generally pro-Town, Queuing, despite our disagreements over tactics, but your continual misstatement of my reasoning is beginning to convince me you’re being disingenuous rather than inattentive.

1935

[QUOTE=Pleonast]
The point of random voting isn’t to discuss the votee, but to generate discussion. Any discussion.* [/list] I’m not sure why you have this persistent misunderstanding that random voting is meant to get the target to start talking, when from the beginning I’ve stated my random votes are to start discussion (period). Are you even reading my posts, or just projecting your dislike of my strategy? I’ve thought you’ve been playing generally pro-Town, Queuing, despite our disagreements over tactics, but your continual misstatement of my reasoning is beginning to convince me you’re being disingenuous rather than inattentive.
[/QUOTE]

Snipped.

I was explaining my actions on Day 1. I was giving the reasons I had stated on day 1 for FOSing you. I understand your explanation. I understand that is was to get discussion. I still don’t think that it accomplished what you say it did, and justified the unvote, however I know that voting a lot is your style. It was day 1 thinking, and I didn’t even vote for you. I was not FOSing you, or even meaning it as evidence for scum. I was solely displaying my actions, and the reasons for them at the time. This was to begin discussion of a player besides Mad, a player from my list of whom-I-think-is-pinging-the-most-scumdars. Mad is dead and gone IMO. Even if he is a believer he has acted decidedly unbelieverish, and his loss will not be a big one. So I see no reason to talk about him, and would rather focus on other players. That list again is:

Pleonast
Fluiddruid
Zeriel
Sachertorte
Malacandra
Queuing

I don’t have the time currently to look at other players, so I recapped what I have done, and why I did it, as a starting point to begin discussion of someone besides a good-as-dead player.

1936

Hey, ok, I understand what you were doing. Sorry for being snippy at you.

I do agree about starting discussion on others, and have no problem with your list in general.

1937

Here’s an overview of fluiddruid:

285: Discussion on building a consensus while voting.
459: Disagrees that defending another players is scummy. Throws suspicion at FlyingCow for saying it does.
469: Removes suspicion of FlyingCow, elaborates why defending another player isn’t necessarily scummy. Says scum are more likely to stay low.
491: More explanation along the same lines.
702: Votes sachertorte for the power role discussion.
924: Excuse for not contributing much lately.
992: Wonders about zuma’s murder. Probably because it was a clean kill, leaving few clues.
1031: Agrees with Pleonast and votes for Malacandra.
1039: Doesn’t think scum would jump on a bandwagon on Day 1. Thinks lone or no vote is more suspicious.
1041: Tussle with Mal.
1078: Thinks we should give Cultists more credit and not assume they’ll pile on a Townie on Day 1.

And, sorry, I’m out of time. I’ll finish this overview later if no one else does. Could a few other people do overviews of others on Q’s list (or choose your own scummy candidate). In particular, I’d like someone else to look at Mal’s post, so we have a non-Pleonast perspective on him.

1938

[QUOTE=Pleonast]
Here’s an overview of fluiddruid:

285: Discussion on building a consensus while voting.
459: Disagrees that defending another players is scummy. Throws suspicion at FlyingCow for saying it does.
469: Removes suspicion of FlyingCow, elaborates why defending another player isn’t necessarily scummy. Says scum are more likely to stay low.
491: More explanation along the same lines.
702: Votes sachertorte for the power role discussion.
924: Excuse for not contributing much lately.
992: Wonders about zuma’s murder. Probably because it was a clean kill, leaving few clues.
1031: Agrees with Pleonast and votes for Malacandra.
1039: Doesn’t think scum would jump on a bandwagon on Day 1. Thinks lone or no vote is more suspicious.
1041: Tussle with Mal.
1078: Thinks we should give Cultists more credit and not assume they’ll pile on a Townie on Day 1.

And, sorry, I’m out of time. I’ll finish this overview later if no one else does. Could a few other people do overviews of others on Q’s list (or choose your own scummy candidate). In particular, I’d like someone else to look at Mal’s post, so we have a non-Pleonast perspective on him.
[/QUOTE]

I’ll do Mal Pleo. It’s a short enough history that I can make it happen. I will post it some time tomorrow.

Someone want to do Zeriel for me?

1939

[QUOTE=Pleonast]
And, sorry, I’m out of time. I’ll finish this overview later if no one else does. Could a few other people do overviews of others on Q’s list (or choose your own scummy candidate). In particular, I’d like someone else to look at Mal’s post, so we have a non-Pleonast perspective on him.
[/QUOTE]
I’ve been thinking that perhaps (if people have time) that having a player reviewed by more than one of us would be a good idea. This would (hopefully) avoid one payer getting a slanted analysis from someone who turns out to be cult - or just mistaken.

1940

Here is Zeriel up to post 1590

I’ll see what I can do for the rest of his posts.