Mafia V: The Cult of Sekham

[Stanislaus]

Kat’s FOS list:
Mal, Pleonast, Sachertorte, FCOD
Mal for the zuma affair.
Pleonast for vote-threat re Oracle/Apprentice discussion
Sachertorte for Oracle/Apprentice discussion
FCOD for claiming that player defence = scumminess.

As I said before, I think there’s a good chance one of these names is scum.

Mtgman votes:
Mtgman (8) - [del]Scuba_Ben[/del], [del]storyteller0910[/del], [del]Hal Briston[/del], [del]DiggitCamara[/del], Zeriel, Pleonast, MHaye, Hockey Monkey

Question: After seeing 4 known innocents vote for a known innocent, would scum feel safe bandwagoning? There’s a lot of cover there, and the opportunity to lynch a non-scum might be pretty tempting. IMHO, there’s a strong possibility that at least one of the last four is scum.

One name is on both lists.

Here’s why Pleonast changed his vote to Mtgman:

@Pleonast

Since it looks like no one is interested in voting for Mal other than myself (although many people have voiced a similar suspicion), I’ll switch my vote to my number two:
unvote Malacandra
vote Mtgman
Same reasons I stated earlier–his accusations are flaky. His complaints against others are very similar to his own actions.

Why move the vote? At the time of his shift, if I’ve counted right, Mtgman was leading ArizonaTeach by 5-4. Pushing Mtgman further into the lead had the effect of protecting AzT. It also followed very quickly after Zeriel’s tie-breaking vote - 6 mins. It’s possible that this was either unaffected by Zeriel (in which case it could be an attempted scum-saving tie-break) or that it was fired off quickly to re-inforce the new lead.

Also this from Day 1:

Townies have nothing to fear by being dunked. At least I don’t have any fear

A clarion call to other to play up - or an attempt at proving bona fides?

Summary - Mad has still got to go: if he’s not scum digging himself deeper, he’s either honestly admitting to manipulating the town (for deeply fallacious reasons, as others have explained) or he’s got some other hidden reason to want dunked. I can’t see a reason to let him live. But Strong FOS Pleonast

[FlyingCowOfDoom]

@amrussell

Kat’s FOS list:
Mal, Pleonast, Sachertorte, FCOD
Mal for the zuma affair.
Pleonast for vote-threat re Oracle/Apprentice discussion
Sachertorte for Oracle/Apprentice discussion
FCOD for claiming that player defence = scumminess.

As I said before, I think there’s a good chance one of these names is scum.

Mtgman votes:
Mtgman (8) - [del]Scuba_Ben[/del], [del]storyteller0910[/del], [del]Hal Briston[/del], [del]DiggitCamara[/del], Zeriel, Pleonast, MHaye, Hockey Monkey

Question: After seeing 4 known innocents vote for a known innocent, would scum feel safe bandwagoning? There’s a lot of cover there, and the opportunity to lynch a non-scum might be pretty tempting. IMHO, there’s a strong possibility that at least one of the last four is scum.

One name is on both lists.

Here’s why Pleonast changed his vote to Mtgman:
Why move the vote? At the time of his shift, if I’ve counted right, Mtgman was leading ArizonaTeach by 5-4. Pushing Mtgman further into the lead had the effect of protecting AzT. It also followed very quickly after Zeriel’s tie-breaking vote - 6 mins. It’s possible that this was either unaffected by Zeriel (in which case it could be an attempted scum-saving tie-break) or that it was fired off quickly to re-inforce the new lead.

Also this from Day 1: A clarion call to other to play up - or an attempt at proving bona fides?

Summary - Mad has still got to go: if he’s not scum digging himself deeper, he’s either honestly admitting to manipulating the town (for deeply fallacious reasons, as others have explained) or he’s got some other hidden reason to want dunked. I can’t see a reason to let him live. But Strong FOS Pleonast

Good catch. This further entrenches my previous suspicion of Pleonast. After Captain Pig is dead, I’ll again focus on him.

–FCOD

[sachertorte]

Good Morning. It’s Friday morning EDT.
vote MadTheSwine

My initial impression of Mad was that he was town with outside obligations. His behavior recently makes me think he wants to get dunked. Whether this is good or bad for the town I do not know, and I think is basically not knowable from game mechanics. I’m guessing at some sort of martyr role, which fits in nicely with the faith-based theme of Mafia V.

On the other hand, MadTheSwine seems to be protesting his dunking which contradicts both my theory of a martyr dunk and MadTheSwine’s proposed scum catching gambit. Either way, we need to dunk him.

The dunk should happen some time around 9:30PM EDT (I think I’m #12), which I think is ideal to set us up for a full five days of discussion next week with a deadline that isn’t too late in the evening on Friday the 27th.

[Blaster_Master]

@sachertorte

Good Morning. It’s Friday morning EDT.
vote MadTheSwine

Begin 12-Hour count down. The Day will end at 9:30 EDT tonight unless MadTheSwine loses his majority vote.

[Blaster_Master]

15 out of 23 Players have voted.

** MadTheSwine ** (12) - Queuing, Malacandra, fluiddruid, USCDiver, SnakesCatLady, Kyrie Eleison, Idle Thoughts, HazelNutCoffee, FlyingCowOfDoom, NAF1138, Captain Klutz, sachertorte
** Captain Klutz ** (1) - Zeriel
** Malacandra ** (1) - Pleonast
** Zeriel ** (1) - MadTheSwine

[Hockey_Monkey]

As promised. I hope these links work. I’ve mostly straight quoted and I apologize for the length, but I don’t want to put any mistaken (or perceived scummy) analysis out there in the summary, since most of it pertains to me. Decide for yourselves.

Post 1593 Reason for skimming over posts not directly related to people who have pinged his radar.

Post 1594 Replys to Hockey Monkey (attributed to Scuba_Ben)

@Zeriel

I make very few apologies for the on-again off-again nature of my suspicions. First of all, the NAF and you things are just as you said–I’m going to be super-sensitive about attacks on myself, and I’m not exactly alone in that. After all, if someone knows they themselves are a townie, it’s in their best interest to at least consider why they’re being targeted. I’m also admittedly prone to following along on other people’s logic–if I like what someone says in an analysis post, I’m likely to take their suspicion as my own.

Offtopically, I’m used to smaller games by a factor of 3+ and despite having joined in 2005 I’m not QUITE all the way adept at dealing with the type of fast-paced threads one sees on the dope–probably half my total posts are from this thread! That’s really the other reason I’m not always 100% fully on board with my posts from a few days or Days ago.

Post 1615

@Zeriel

Cookie’s analysis crystallizes stuff a lot for me, especially since she cites posts and reveals things that I can then catch.

For example, Hockey Monkey in two consecutive lines in post 1215 both says to suspect one-off votes the most and that the bandwagon (of which he is a part) potentially hides scum. Following that, he’s basing all the substantiative parts of his Day 3 analysis (I continue to be irritated by the spurious reasoning on the vote/unvote patterns of AZTeach/Kat) on my supposedly bandwagon-starting vote after agreeing in 1215 that the one-offs are what’s highly suspicious to him.

vote Hockey Monkey

Post 1629 Replys to Hockey Monkey

@Zeriel

Welcome to my own personal world.

Post 1632

@Zeriel

And now we’re back to two frontrunners again. I’d just like to point out that Hockey Monkey, in the guise of being reasonable and unvoting me, has just broken a tie involving herself by voting Scuba_Ben into the lead. More to the point, she didn’t acknowledge when voting that she’d pushed her opponent to the lead with less than 24 hours to go in the vote.

Now, where have we seen THIS behavior before, recently?

Updated unofficial vote count: snipped out vote count

Post 1633 – high five for simulpost

Post 1634 – correction to vote count

Post 1646

@Zeriel

I gotta admit, I’m feeling some remorse over my Hockey Monkey vote, for precisely the reasons articulated by Idle Thoughts.

However, I’m not really sure that Scuba_Ben looks any more scummy. I’ll leave my vote where it is to keep it tied up, and encourage others to come and vote for whoever they think most scummy–the tie is at FOUR votes, after all, with several others at two and one. Any number of absentees to the thread could come in and dunk literally anyone.

Also, in the future, I’m personally going to avoid setting up this kind of last-minute pick-a-frontrunner thing, since really it seems to be limiting the town’s thinking unnecessarily.

To close, I plead again to my fellow townies: Don’t feel compelled to pick one of the frontrunners in a tie situation. Especially when the vote counts are so low that literally anyone could end up dunked if enough of the non-voting people suspect them.

Post 1647 – Get your butts in here and vote.

Post 1662

@Zeriel

Wonderful, a roleclaim that can’t be proven in any way. Still.

If voting stays the way it is, I’ll come back in at 12:45 and remove my Hockey Monkey vote so that we go into overtime and have at least part of a weekday to think it through. If I cannot push us into overtime, my suspicion and vote will stand.

Post 1670

@Zeriel

I’d like to go on the record as not liking the speed at which Hockey Monkey is being believed. I have no reason not to accept the roleclaim, but I’d really like to force a tie–I’d hate to see any other claimants to the Alchemist title do so after the 1pm deadline.

Post 1683

@Zeriel

I’m just sayin’, there’s no particular way to verify an Alchemist claim, is there? If I wasn’t suspicious of her, I wouldn’t have voted in the first place, and there’s no guarantee that the Alchemist is going to be pro-town. Hell, the only way to really differentiate between multiple alchemist claims would be kill 'em all, so I doubt the scum will try it. By the same token, it’d be pretty easy for the scum to role-claim the alchemist specifically to get the real alchemist to out themselves.

I just wanted a few more hours to think about it and get some other missing opinions in here.

Also, nice poorly-supported vote. I know who I’m giving the eye to now. :dubious:

6 night posts

Post 1871

@Zeriel

So…tired…

I’m on the side of “I don’t think that’s a breadcrumb” on the MadtheSwine issue. I think it’s more likely he checked sachertorte.

I’m suspicious right now of the following:

MadtheSwine, for the ridiculous last-minute (literally) vote and analysis. Like Queuing, I say “Give us a good reason not to vote”.

Captain Klutz, for post 1666 in which he unvotes fluiddruid and pushes Scuba_Ben over the top based on his desire to pick one of the frontrunners to lynch–that’s how I interpret so soon after SnakesCatLady and I both expressed the desire to tie it up and go to overtime for a more useful discussion. Then he obliquely questioned Hockey’s claim just before the deadline.

DiggitCamera, for cementing a Scuba_Ben dunking by unvoting Hockey, and then voting for me based on a clear misunderstanding of my intent–I was obviously interested in a tie and more discussion, NOT in dunking Hockey , and saying otherwise won’t make it so. And furthermore, Autolycus (who he subbed) had been acting suspicious earlier too.

fluiddruid, weakly, for her blase reaction to CaptainKlutz’s vote and for being generically lurky.

For now, to put a vote on someone I think is way more likely scum than mad , I’d like to vote Captain Klutz based on his scummy moves in the closing hours of Day 3.

People I’m almost sure are town:
SnakesCatLady , for being with me on a lot of issues, especially the attempt to hold Hockey and Ben at a tie to give us some discussion room.

Queuing and sachertorte , for ongoing insightful analysis and an apparent committment to rational thought.

Post 1878 Reply to Mad

@Zeriel

That’s the most messed up crap I’ve ever heard. Hell, this little song and dance makes you look even more scummy, you realize that?

Post 1901 – agrees with Friday dunking to force schedule change

Post 1915

@Zeriel

Captain Klutz, in addition to my irritation with him for pushing us out of a tie yesterDay, has now brought us perilously close to a quick lynch today–seemingly voting for Mad solely to do so while keeping his own hands clean. I don’t like this any more than I like the previous behavior that led to the vote.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Can we get a vote count, BM?

If I’m counting my fingers correctly, at least half of the players in the game have not voted. I am curious how the “I’m suspicious of anyone who doesn’t vote” camp are going to reconcile those default suspicions with the fact that we are potentially significantly shortening the Day.

[MadTheSwine]

I am not gonna convince enough of you I see,which is ok,I figured that may happen when I started this “flawed” plan,but c’mon no plan is perfect.
I don’t wanna die,I am not a secret role so ya’ll can rest easy on that part,you are just gonna dunk an “expendable” townie.I hope I don’t die in vain but thats all in your hands now.

Remember…Strong FOS from me on **Pleonast,Malacandra,Captain Klutz…but especially zeriel.**I think there are at least two scum in these four.

Lesser FOS’s would be on The Nut,she seems to be trying really, really hard to come across as town.Also USC,but that is more just a feeling on him,though my feelings have had a good track record previously.The last two I don’t expect any one will follow up on,but check out those last four as soon as ya can.

As much as Snakes comes as unpleasant at times I think she is anti-cult.

Also,the scum will kill one of those four tonight (if they ain’t all scum) to try to discredit my plan.Don’t be fooled!

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Wow, you’re psychic…and fast.

[MadTheSwine]

Whoops on the bolding.

[Blaster_Master]

@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies

Wow, you’re psychic…and fast.

Aww… shucks. :o

[Hockey_Monkey]

I just can’t reconcile **Mad ** being scum. His plan makes sense to me in a way, although it is flawed. If he is scum then I am going to send my scum-dar to the shop for repairs. I’ve been suspicious of **Pleonast ** and **Zeriel ** for most of the game, but backed off **Zeriel ** a little when he said something I thought was a town-tell. My gut is nagging at me again, and I see that it will make little difference if I vote to dunk **Mad ** or someone else. I’m fine with seeing **Mad ** in the dunk chair today because the way he implemented his plan was detrimental to the town, but I will go on record with a vote for Zeriel.

[Stanislaus]

A man should have the courage of his convictions:

vote MadTheSwine

[SnakesCatLady]

We have 23 players left. 15 have voted. Mad the Swine has 12 votes with **Malacandra, Captain Klutz & Zeriel having one vote each.

Players who haven’t voted:
Hockey Monkey
Fretful Porpentine
Nava
amrussell
zuma
ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
Diggit Camera 2.0
MHaye

Cookies, I’m still going to be suspicious of anyone who doesn’t vote. Not voting by itself isn’t a sufficent reason to get my vote, but I will be investigating players who didn’t vote toDay just as I did players who didn’t vote yesterDay. Every player in the game has had the chance to come in here and read this thread by now, and see that there is a potentially shortened Day in the making. If they have not read the thread by now, I don’t think they are that much use as a player and should be subbed. I don’t expect everyone to vote for one of the 4 players who already have votes. I expect a lot of players won’t want to join the pile-on on Mad the Swine - something about his actions doesn’t feel right, but it is arguable that he is not Cult. (Please note that I didn’t say I believed it; I said it was arguable. ) That is no reason for not voting at all.

Under the circumstances I think changing the day on which the Day will end is a good thing for the flow of the game. I don’t think it will change the outcome for Mad the Swine if the Day ran the full length, and precious little other discussion is going on.

Some players have criticized players who vote immeditately at start of Day. I don’t see a single thing wrong with that. Votes can be changed after discussion. If someone votes just a few minutes before end of Day, there is little time for discussion and/or role claims. This is not good for the town. I know I have said this before but some players seem either not to have read it or do not think it is important.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

As should a woman.

Vote Hockey Monkey.

[SnakesCatLady]

Sorry for the messed up coding, and please take amrussell and Hockey Monkey from the above list.

[fluiddruid]

Sorry, MadTheSwine, but from a purely analytical level - if you’re a townie, you’re much better off to us dead than alive. Your story sounds incredibly scummy, and a vast master plan to play scummy just doesn’t make any real sense from my perspective. If I’m wrong, I’m sorry, but at least we’ll have learned something.

But, again, I don’t think so. I think you’re doing the gallows dance … er, the dunking dance. We’ll see soon enough.

[Pleonast]

As promised,
Unvote Malacandra
Vote MadThe Swine

I’ll finish my work up of fluiddruid next.

[MHaye]

I recognise I have not voted. The truncation of Today gives me a problem, in that the longest single time I have available to read, think and post is Saturday - and that has just been denied me. Thus I don’t know who to vote for, and I don’t have enough time to do what I promised and to vote.

I said in post [post=8797265]1933[/post] that I had seen MadTheSwine do odd things before. Odd things like place a vote for someone after locating a pirate (who was not the player voted for, only to throw out hints and later spring a trap.

In other words, behaving strangely to draw out a reaction is something he’s done before. Therefore, I will not be voting for Mad.

I don’t know who I will be voting for. I’m struggling to come up with things. Also, I’m not going to be able to reread the rest of Today and track down anything suspicious and finish my investigation of HazelNutCoffee. If I get time I’ll post Day 1 before the deadline. It’ll probably work better as a two-parter anyway.

Off to find some pointers.

[Pleonast]

Continuing fluiddruid’s posts, (see my post 1937 for earlier posts).

1222: Detailed post about what scum do and do not do versus how players react to what the scum do/don’t.
12224: Another thought on scum strategy.
1227: Scum won’t kill randomly, it helps the Town to discuss why someone is murdered. Mild accusation at MHaye.
1250: Again defends discussion of night kills as helpful to Town.
1251: Doesn’t care if Day end is postponed or not.
1266: Point-by-point rebuttal of Pasta.
1291: Continued tussle with Pasta.
1340: Thanking those who caught Kat.
1351: Non-game comment to Cookies.
1400: Agrees with not ending Days on the weekend.
1513: Votes for Hockey Monkey. Also is suspicious of Pleonast. Feels NAF and sachertorte seem Townish.
1533: Self post summary.
1628: Complains about every action being typed scummy.
1638: Likes SnakesCatLady’s catch of Hockey’s mistake.
1762: List of Suspicion: Hockey Monkey, Pasta, Pleonast, Zeriel.
1675: Clarifies difference between bandwaggon and bad logic votes.
1790: Follows Queuing and votes for MadTheSwine.
1795: Counter-claiming a false claim helps the Cult. Still thinks Hockey Monkey is scum.
1869: Provides self as counter-example to Mad’s claim.
1870: Explains flimsy vote early on Day 2.
1886: Mad’s crazy explanation looks scummy, but thinks Mad scum list is reasonable.
1916: Likes shortening Day to avoid weekend end.
1977: Resigns Mad to his dunk as better for the Town, no matter what.

It’d be good, as was suggested earlier, that someone else go over druid’s posts as well. See I even made a handy list for you!

My overall assessment of fluiddruid: nothing strikes me as particularly scummy, so low on my dunking list.