As ever, Manda, you are beautiful.
pan
I’ll concede it’s remotely possible that the problem can be fixed with a reasonable amount of time and effort. However, based upon my limited experience, I think it’s a longshot.
Your own admitted limited experience qualifies you to estimate odds for the rest of the population? Wow…
Oh, and by the way, CrazyCatLady, you rock.
Well, I just want to stand up, cheer, and give you a kiss. I won’t get into anyone’s personal choice of when to stay in a marriage, but you’re right- for better or worse. Marriage. Depression happens, libidos change, spouses lose jobs, become disabled, screw up, etc. Good on you, Arty. You’ll see when this is resolved- you’ll likely be closer then ever because he knows deep down your level of commitment to him and to your marriage. Good for you.
*Note- this is a cheer for Arty, not a dis on anyone else.
Well, perhaps I was being too self-deprecating. I have a decent, but not unlimited, amount of experience and decent knowledge of human nature.
In just about every relationship I’ve been in – both romantic and platonic – the other person’s shortcomings haven’t really changed much, despite various attentions. And the same is probably true about my own issues. This is also true about the relationships my friends have been in.
Now, I’m sure that there are counter-examples, but it seems to me that these are the exception and not the rule.
When deciding to stay in a relationship, one needs to consider the costs and the benefits. In a new marriage without any children but with a serious problem, you’re probably better off just getting out rather than invest tons of time and energy, enduring lots of pain and heartache, hoping that things would change.
I would give the same advice to a married person who suffered from domestic violence, or whose spouse had a serious drug or alcohol problem.
Just MHO of course.
Nobody should stay in a situation that’s making them miserable just because they ‘promised to’.
That’s odd. Seems like I remember something about “for better or worse” in the wedding vows. Pretty stupid to expect someone to live up to the most important promise of their life when the “worse” part comes around …
Arty, you’re the shit babe 
I have been married three times. The first was horrible. He forced himself on me frequently and I learned to HATE sex. A month after the wedding we had sex for the last time and 18 months later we divorced because of my “frigidity” Funny how a frigid woman can love sex so much that a week after the divorce I was screwing anything with a dick (within reason 
) My second marriage ended in my husband dying after 6 months of illness. The last year of his life was totally sexless because of his illness but I stayed by his side because I loved him. NOT because of the sex. I took a lover to take care of the physical things my husband couldn’t. She was my life saver.
I’ve been married this time a little over a year. Mike and I dated for 2 years before the wedding. This time the sex is great (especially during the pregnancy!! ) and I believe it’s because we have open communication. We talk about EVERYTHING. When the sex isn’t “up to par” we talk about why. When something is wrong at work, with the kids, my health, we talk about it! I know what it’s like to be in a sexless relationship. It sucks. It hurts. It’s a bitch but you CAN get past this. One way or another you WILL get thru this. Sex is NOT love and love is NOT sex. You CAN have one without the other. Get YOURSELF into therapy and after a while you will be able to either live without marital sex or you will get a divorce. This too shall pass.
Well, SnoopyFan, that ‘for better or worse’ does seem to imply that there will at some point be a ‘better’ and that the ‘worse’ is temporary.
In the case of the OP, it looks like there is no ‘better or’ it’s all just ‘worse’.
I think it’s pretty fucked up to take ‘for better or worse’ to mean that if things steadily decline until they hit bottom and they never improve, stay anyway. Bullshit. Everyone deserves a chance to lead a happy, fulfilling life.
If the OP’s isn’t, he’s no asshole for doing what it takes to make his life happy and fulfilling.
I think it’s nice and romantic to believe that you can just have love and not sex, but to me, sex is a fundamental part of any long term relationship. Shouldn’t be forced to deny himself that because his wife doesn’t want to have sex, doesn’t want to talk about it, and won’t seek medical attention.
She’s the one not living up to the “love, honor and cherish” part. This isn’t just about libido. It’s about no physical affection of any kind, not even hugging or kissing. That’s no marriage, and it’s ridiculous to say that someone should live in a loveless, sexless marriage to unilaterally live up to some ritualistic “vows.” Vows are purely symbolic. Marriages don’t succeed because of vows, they succeed because of love. If there is no love the marriage is a failure and the vows are worthless.
Sometimes vows have to be broken.
Ok um … well ahh … far be it from me to judge someone who’s been in a situation I haven’t, but you were cheating on your dying husband? WTF?
Not if you have a dick.
And how H an O it is. Do I take it you’re not married yourself?? Would you only consider staying in a marriage if it had already been of longer duration, or the problems weren’t serious?
Describing Mrsthras’s, and therefore thras’s, problem as a shortcoming–literally 'The act of falling, or coming short; as: “(a) The failure of a crop, or the like. (b) Neglect of, or failure in, performance of duty…a failing or deficiency” '—while disingenuously referring to your own shortcomings as “issues”: “point or matter of discussion, debate, or dispute…A misgiving, objection, or complaint…personal problem or emotional disorder” smacks of an attitude I like to call “Everybody sucks but me.” They have failings, I have complaints–come on, now, level the playing field if you’re trying to be fair. Don’t assume that because you and your friends have not had success in this area, no one else can, or even that such success is rare.
Tip from a married person: some things can change if people choose to change them. For some people, deciding to be married means deciding to attack problems together, other why get married at all? we don’t get stoned to death for fornication much in the countries most Dopers hail from. “Hope” does not change things. Hard fuckin’ work does, if you’re both willing to put it in. Here’s the thing about maintaining relationships: it takes two to make them work, but it only takes one to destroy it.
For thras & the mrs, who can tell? We haven’t heard from thras in awhile; I’d have to guess, posting this in the Pit n’all, he wasn’t interested in constructive criticism anyway but was just venting. If she is truly not interested in solving this problem, and he’s telling public message boards all about it, I’d have to guess chances are slim–but not because such problems cannot be solved. Because the two of them do not, apparently, choose to solve them together.
I can hardly believe you’d equate lack of libido with domestic violence, drug addiction or alcoholism. I can’t even begin to address this part of your post and hope somebody else has the energy to do so. Even reading this thread depresses the shit out of me–I’m going back to the “Mom burns baby in oven” one, I think that’ll be cheerier.
I agree with you this time Snoop, cheating on a dying husband is pretty sleazy…and not very loving.
I gather this was posted to me. If not then disregard but heres my answer. I wasn’t “cheating” on my husband. He knew my best friend and it was actually HIS idea for us to hook up because he knew about my needs and he couldn’t do anything about them. He just wanted me to be with someone that cared about me and my girlfriend was willing. (btw I slept with her once with him in the same bed. NOTHING was ever kept from him) :rolleyes:
This thread might be more useful if we stopped talking about sex and starting talking about her refusal to recognize that he has a problem in their marriage and wants her to help him work on that problem. Even if the OP’s mate has an underlying cause for her problem, she’s now responsible for ignoring that possibility for years. Years he told us.
My advice to get counseling didn’t mean “wait forever.” (In fact, I advised him to start by himself, in the hope that she would eventually join him.) The idea is that a neutral third party may bring things into focus for Mr. OP, and if she will go, for Mrs. OP.
Cheating on a dying husband doesn’t sound very nice. Of course, it does seem that having a dying husband could do things to your stress levels and libido, things you would have a hard time getting control of - perhaps the flip side of having a low libido and struggling to do the right thing despite that problem.
[/hijack]Why do so many people think it’s perfectly okay to put a full stop on sex and touching when YOU don’t happen to feel like it? I’m not advising we (women and men) lie back and think of England, but if you deny your partner sex and physical affection for a few months, then you obviously have a problem and you need to think about taking care of it. If you don’t happen to feel all that sexy, sometimes that’s too bad. I expect my partner to do things for me sometimes, no matter how he feels. CrazyCatLady - I’m not saying give it up anytime the partner asks, but many of the post in this thread sound like “when it comes to sex, it’s all about me.” Stress makes you horny. Stress makes your partner cold. We better work out a compromise. For instance, one evening about year ago, when I was working non-stop and coming down with a cold, I got home late late late and found out he had just learned of a serious illness in the family. He wanted to have sex. Seems like his problems were more important than my feelings that night. Frankly, I don’t resent that night at all. (But don’t get me started on his failure to wipe his feet!)[/hijack]
For what it’s worth, I’m married with children.
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Or if there were kids.
Let me put it simply:
Serious problems + short duration + no kids = bail.
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I certainly wasn’t trying to project such an attitude. I think you’re reading to much into what I said, but to set the record straight – I have shortcomings just like everyone else.
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I won’t make that assumption.
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This is a reasonable conclusion based upon my experience.
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Not sure what you mean by “equate,” but a situation where one spouse totally refuses to have sex with another who wants it strikes me as a serious problem. You may feel that domestic violence and drug abuse are more serious problems, but they are all serious problems. In my humble opinion of course.
quote:
Originally posted by SnoopyFan
Ok um … well ahh … far be it from me to judge someone who’s been in a situation I haven’t, but you were cheating on your dying husband? WTF?
Diogenes I cannot believe you would agree with him! (of course it’s not the first time you’ve surprised me like this lol) Did you perchance read my second post (the one in response to Snoop) ? There was no “cheating” involved. Hence no “sleazy” activity :smack: If he hadn’t TOLD me to get a lover there wouldn’t have been one at all. I took my vows VERY seriously as should anyone taking them. Divorce is WAAAAAAY to prevelant nowadays because very few people want to WORK on their marriages. Everyone wants an easy way out of difficult situations. It may be that divorce is the OPers only recourse but it SHOULDN’T be the first as some have suggested in this thread.
My apologies to Thrasymachus for the hijack. I hope you can find a way thru this that is healthy for you.
Thrasymachus, do you often find yourself bringing up very serious issues and then deciding to just walk out of the room? Does your wife respond but then find that she might as well be talking to a wall?
WE KNOW HOW SHE FEELS!
Dude, it seems you have issues with communication. You start this thread and then abandon it. You haven’t had sex for years and you SAY it’s important to you, but you seem to shruggingly accept that your wife “doesn’t want to talk about it?” Huh? Yeah, I guess marriage does suck for you. If it’s important to you, (and I can’t imagine that having no sex for years ISN’T important to you), then you need to PRESS the issue. If she continues the silent treatment, then you need to clearly communicate that this is an unacceptable response and that if it continues, you will (divorce her, separate from her, cut off her tennis club membership) if she doesn’t make some sort of ATTEMPT to resolve the problem. Because loving each other platonically is a friendship NOT a marriage. And that is not what you signed up for.
I’ve been married for 15 years. We don’t have sex as often as we used to but there’s no way in hell my husband would sullenly ACCEPT me not having sex for weeks, let alone YEARS, without pressing the issue.
In other words, you’d be amazed what a little communication could do for your marriage. The ball’s in your court. DO something.
I posted my response befoe you posted your explanation. You didn’t say the first time that you had your husband’s permission. That does make it a little bit bit different.
Also, there’s an obvious difference between a situation where one spouse is sick and dying and a situation wher a spouse is simply emotionally cold and unaffectionate (not just with sex but with all physical affection). A sexless marriage is already broken. If there are no kids, and the aloof spouse is unwilling to even address the problem, then what is to be gained by staying in the relationship?
Diogenes I cannot believe you would agree with him!
Ahem.
I am a woman.