:smack: I KNEW that… 
sorry. Thats what I get for posting after only getting a couple hours of sleep. I’m such a :wally
Well, I never expected such reams of advice, some of it very insightful. Thanks. A few seem to have read a lot of their baggage into the situation, which is understandable. Relationships are complex and a few paragraphs is not much to go on.
So, my wife and I had some discussion this week, and I got her to agree to go to counseling finally! Yeah!! I’ve heard mixed reviews on the effectiveness, but it would have to be better than the current situation if only to shed some light on our issues. I’m certainly not above thinking that I’m at fault.
To answer some of the questions raised and to elaborate:
Is she manipulative? My brother, who is much more cynical than I am, has always thought so - she wanted someone to support her. I don’t agree; we’ve been married four years now and I’m convinced that she’s genuine, just not very empathic or affectionate.
Taking a look at the other thread offered some explanation from a woman’s perpective. She has complained, on various occasions, of not feeling sexy anymore since she has gained some weight. I think she’s beautiful. Also, she feels that the things she does around the house are her way of showing affection. For example, she packs my lunch for work each day and so on…
Especially on point is the suggestion that she feels that any kissing etc could lead to sex, which makes her want to avoid it altogether.
Her ideal situation would be for me to forget about sex and affection and just wait for her to come around - even if it takes ten years! That is what she said last night. Obviously that isn’t quite acceptable - I’ve tried to be “perfect” like that and never come close to her, but I can only do that a week or so before there’s an inevitable backlash. Not healthy on several levels.
So, do I stink or am I crude or something? No, we’ve been over those aspects already - that’s too simple. She tells me that I’m a great husband (I really try to be) and her best friend; she just doesn’t want or need closeness.
Medication can’t be ruled out - she’s been on anti-depressants since I’ve known her, and there could easily be something there. She doesn’t want to talk to her a doctor about that though, and she feels that it’s selfish of me to even ask! This kind of thing is what bothers me the most - if she wanted to work on “us” together that would be great, but it’s hard for her to even consider doing so.
Lastly, to all the “just throw in the towel” folks, it’s tempting, it really is. She’s great in many respects, but I’m a bit worn out trying to keep this going.
I’m glad that she agreed to go to therapy. That is a huge victory.
What would happen if you suggested a short – time boxed --make out session, with the understanding that it will not, under any circumstances, lead to sex? This would let you have some intimacy, and would take the pressure off of her, and it might help her to open up a bit about whatever is troubling her.
Sooo… it’s not okay for someone to put a full stop on something that hurts them physically, mentally, and emotionally? Interesting theory. Really, though, I can’t imagine having sex with someone who doesn’t care that it was hurting me.
Sex isn’t all about me. It’s about us. Last time I looked, I was part of us, so it should be at least a little bit about me. When it stops being about me at all, in any way, shape or form, it’s all about him, and that’s no more fair than it being all about me.
The thing about compromises is that they have to work for everyone involved. If having sex you don’t particularly want in the expectation of future reciprocation works for you, great. Fabulous. It’s not going to work for everyone, though. For some people, having sex that makes them feel bad is just not an option. Other couples might find it acceptable to fulfill one’s sexual desires outside the marriage, as did pencilpusher. Still others might say, “Watch all the porn and strippers you want, just stay the hell away from me,” and leave all parties involved happy. Still others may find ending the relationship altogether is workable for both of them.
It doesn’t matter what the problem is or where it originated; a compromise that only satisfies one party in a conflict is a shitty compromise. If you are unable to reach a mutually agreeable compromise, then you have to decide whether or not this is something you can live without a compromise on, and go from there.
On preview, I have to say that tdn’s suggestion sounds like a pretty good one.
zette I just got back from the counsellor myself and was feeling a bit down. Your kind words made me smile. Thank you 
SnoopyFan I have no idea what “you’re the shit babe” means! I’m hoping its nothing bad! Anyway I feel like maybe I was a bit too harsh and I apologise.
This last sentence is a big red flag to me. The fact that she views physical affection as a selfish demand of yours and not a natural, important part of a relationship is a major problem. Hopefully that can be addressed in counselling.
I think that for right now you should work to see if the marriage can be saved, but no matter what don’t lose sight of the fact that it’s not wrong or selfish of you to want to be in a physically intimate relationship. If it doesn’t look like your wife genuinely wants to work toward that (i.e. realizes that it’s important, not just doing it to mollify you), I would get out. You don’t have kids and the incompatibility may just be too great – at that point, you’ll likely cause each other more pain than happiness in the long run. You’re not selfish for wanting a relationship that makes you happy on all levels.
Arty- I’m glad it made you smile. I meant it. The trials my husband and I have faced are nothing compared to the strength that sticking together has brought to our marriage. It’s the hard times that show what sticking together really means. A good friend recently told me that no matter the problem, just never turn against each other, and she was so right about that. Have faith and I hope things go well for you.
also, “The shit” is a good thing. Like “You’re the bomb” or “You’re the best”.
They probably are her way of showing affection. But that’s not enough–she also needs to know how to show you affection in ways that you understand. I"m glad she agreed to counseling.
Go get a book called “The five love languages.” It might have a Christian perspective, I forget, but if it does, it’s fairly subtle. It talks about how various people express and receive love in differing ways. A person who expresses love through touch will have different ideas than a person who expresses it through words. Someone who needs to be told “I love you” will not necessarily understand get the message of love expressed through fixing up the house. Not that it will replace some good counseling, talking, and maybe different meds, but it might help…
Crazycatlady
When did we decide that sex was causing this woman physical or emotional pain?
What did the OP write to make you think he wants to hurt his wife?
What we know is that the OP is hurt by his wife’s sudden and now long-term refusal to have sex, hug, or even discuss the problem in depth.
How does my comment “We better work out a compromise” mean let one partner dictate?
I stand by my hijack: It’s wrong for one partner to make a sudden unilateral decision about the marriage. It is wrong for her to mandate that their marriage is without sex or tenderness as it would be for him to decree that their marriage requires sex on demand for him.
We now know that her attitude is that “Her ideal situation would be for me to forget about sex and affection and just wait for her to come around” but we have the good news that she’s beginning to realize that she can’t have it her way - they need to work on this marriage together.
Good luck, Mr. & Mrs. Thrasymachus!
I know that this thread has just about run its course, but for anyone who’s still checking in, a couple of issues were raised that I feel very very strongly about, and I need to weigh in.
First of all, Thrasy, kudos to you for trying to find a solution. I’m glad your wife has finally agreed to counseling–I agree with those who’ve weighed in to suggest it. If nothing else, if things don’t work out in the end, at least you will know you did everything you could.
I also agree that sexual compatability is absolutely crucial to a healthy and rewarding partnership. This is why the situation is–or will become at some point–a very serious one. The problem is with the relationship, and not just with your wife. Or you.
I disagree with those who have said that Thrasymachus should dump his wife because she won’t be intimate or go to counseling. It’s very possible that she doesn’t understand how serious this situation is (or will become). Mature people who love each other come together and do whatever it takes to fix the relationship. They don’t just walk away because things are not working out. Jaade and Copaesthetic have submitted smart, thoughtful, and enlightened comments.
And another thing:
This may be a hijack at this point, but I think this issue is important and needs to be addressed. I agree with Jaade’s comment: we need to take words like “frigid” seriously. All of us use words without thinking about all of their implications, and I don’t fault Thrasy for using this one.
Acknowledging that this word matters is important to this discussion because, like all descriptive words, “frigid” shapes our understanding of human relationships. “Frigid” is a word that has been used for a long time to criticize women and dismiss the possibility that there are complex problems in a relationship. It’s akin to men assuming that women who reject their unsolicited advances must be lesbians.
Although Thrasy has given no indication that this is what he meant to do, to call a woman “frigid” is to place blame squarely on her alone; this diminishes the opportunity to discover what may be more complex reasons for her lack of interest, be they physiological, emotional/psychological, or related to deeper dynamics of the relationship.
Thrasy, a last word: Don’t expect counseling to be easy (in fact, expect it be very hard on the ego), but the payoff is well worth it (IMHO), even if you both ultimately decide that separation is the only solution.
It’s very possible, though, that you will both end up even closer than you already are, and with a relationship better than anything you could have imagined. If you don’t hear anything else, hear what Copaesthetic said (or at least the portion I excerpted):
You sound like a good guy, and I wish you all the best. Worst case, this process will help make your next relationship a much more rich, rewarding, and mature one.
There are lots of good counselors out there, and some not so good ones. If you need to, keep shopping around (but not just because the first one doesn’t tell you what you want to hear).
Good luck!