[QUOTE=Phase42]
That’s what she said!
[/QUOTE]
Probably not
The sexual double-standard, I’m sad to say, is alive and well. There are still women who get punished for ‘putting out’ as soon as they want it instead of holding back, and guys who forget that they were there, too. And this, gentlemen, is why women still read The Rules.
me- male, mid 30’s, married.
where i tend to be a non-agressive person (or perhaps passive-agressive, as you may see), i want to know that there is an intrest in me before i make a move. i tend to be this way with my Mrs. harmswai, i may hint at sex, but rarely do i just throw her on the bed and go at it without knowing she is wanting it too. once i know she’s in the mood, game on.
funny side note, as much as Mrs. harmswai talks about wanting sex, loving sex, and bringing up her past sexual exploits, we don’t have sex very often. perhaps i should be more agressive to start sexual situations?
The male ego is even fragiler than I thought…
[QUOTE=brujaja]
Mongo Ponton, this is interesting, as I’ve heard many men say what you said in that first sentence. I think actually what’s going on is that 90% of anyone can go and get laid on command, as long as they don’t care who it is. Think about it, any given guy probably has a short list of girls he knows that he probably could score with at any given time; but he doesn’t do it because they’re too fat/old/crazy/selfish/drama queen/skanky/married, etc.
[/QUOTE]
Excellent, excellent point.
Freudian Slit: Ooooh, good word! “Fragiler”!
[Beevis & Butthead] “She said ‘flagellum’! Heh heh heh! Heh heh!” [/Beevis & Butthead]
Little Nemo: I have noticed your admirable tendency to chime in with the Voice of Reason. You raise an excellent point, and I agree completely.
harmswai: If you are not asking rhetorically, I say Yes! Perhaps you could try being more aggressive. Be sure and be aggressive in the sense of “You are lovely and irresistable, my dear! My blood is boiling!” and not “Arrr! Drop what you’re doing! Do this now!” (unless that’s specifically what she likes.)
I always thought that Gomez & Morticia had the healthiest marriage on television. 
(Mongo Ponton: It’s true. Scientists, etymologists and left-leaning political pundits are way hot, to me. If only Noam Chomsky were a bit younger!)
[QUOTE=Freudian Slit]
The male ego is even fragiler than I thought…
[/QUOTE]
You’d get propositioned a whole lot more often if it weren’t, believe me.
It also explains why guys’ dicks go inexplicably limp every time I mention that this may not be my first time and that I wasn’t actually raised in a convent with no notion of how big the male junk should be.
Plus…come on–are guys really all that worried about how tight a woman’s vagina is going to be because she’s had lots of partners?
[QUOTE=Freudian Slit]
It also explains why guys’ dicks go inexplicably limp every time I mention that this may not be my first time and that I wasn’t actually raised in a convent with no notion of how big the male junk should be.
Plus…come on–are guys really all that worried about how tight a woman’s vagina is going to be because she’s had lots of partners?
[/QUOTE]
You misunderstand. What our egos fear is rejection. Get past that hurdle and anything else is lagniappe.
[QUOTE=Freudian Slit]
The male ego is even fragiler than I thought…
[/QUOTE]
What BrainGlutton said.
Although **Freudian Slit ** is correct about male egos, in the same circumstances female egos are even more delicate. Men and women both find it difficult to make the first move. On those rare occasions when the average woman takes a shot and is shot down, the fireworks are terrible to behold. At least men have grown accustomed to it.
[QUOTE=sunacres]
What BrainGlutton said.
Although **Freudian Slit ** is correct about male egos, in the same circumstances female egos are even more delicate. Men and women both find it difficult to make the first move. On those rare occasions when the average woman takes a shot and is shot down, the fireworks are terrible to behold. At least men have grown accustomed to it.
[/QUOTE]
Boy Howdy this is correct. Hell hath no fury like a woman turned down.
My ex-wife used to turn me down all the time, one time I realized that the 12-pack of condoms I bought over a year ago was not yet empty. If she initiated, though, and I didn’t rise to the occasion, there’d be hell to pay.
Revisiting my earlier post a bit, I guess I talked a a lot about what I appreciate once you’ve gotten all your clothing off. Before that point, though, there’s still a lot that can be communicated without actually saying it.
If you’re a woman who’s standing around waiting for the man to kiss you, you’ve given all your hints and he’s still not doing it, try kissing him instead. We all know what it means to kiss and be kissed - if he kisses you, and you want more, kiss him back. Assertiveness doesn’t have to extend to outright declaring, “I wanna jump your bones!”
I think any 40-something man is not going to be too surprised by finding a woman who can declare her interest and understand her sexuality. After all, at 40, I don’t think anybody is expected to be virginal (or without a little baggage either).
Speaking for myself, as I told my mother when she was panicking over the fact my new wife has children, that at 40, nearly every woman does have children. Heck, Mom, I have children, too, you know. I know she’s had lovers in the past - the children are pretty decent proof of having sex at least twice.
I expected any woman I dated to be at least able to obviously (wink, wink, whack!, wink) hint that “now would be a good time to have sex” or outright declare (or demonstrate) it. I expected a pretty adult response to the phrase, “I’d really like to take you upstairs” from her as well.
Woman, born in 1968.
I’ve had all kinds of reactions when I’ve taken the initiative. Not just on sex but also on what we might name the previous steps… from guys who have been happy to dance with me to one who hid in the bathroom; from one who was surprised but happy that I was the one lifting his shirt to another who totally freaked out.
I decided a loooooong time ago that the right response for the ones who freak out, the proper response is “their loss.” I don’t interested in just anybody who wear a pair of pants, but if I’m interested in someone I’m actively interested. I’m not an easy person to pigeonhole, so guys who are looking for their idea of a woman rather than being interested in getting to know me aren’t what I want.
[QUOTE=brujaja]
So, I’m sorta direct – I’ll just go ahead and ask straight out: I was born in the 60’s. I want to know if (straight) men roughly of my generation are freaked out, put off, or disappointed by women who like sex. Or by women who take the initiative. I’m not talking about being demanding (probably?), I’m talking about women who are eager to get on the stick once you have established that there is a mutual attraction.
[/QUOTE]
Not at all. But I do like there to be not only mutual attraction, but some time spent together as well, at least maybe 4-7 hours of face time. And I want to be assured than what we have is more than a one-time thing. It might be a sex-only relationship, but I want it to be a relationship, and preferably an exclusive one.
It’s not that I have anything against one night stands, but they are just not my style.
Once a relationship has been established, I really enjoy it if she’s comfortable with her sexuality and initiates things as often as I do.
I do indeed enjoy the thrill of the chase, though I prefer to think of it as a process of attraction. I never want to feel that I’m persuading or manipulating a woman into sex. Not only do I find that unethical, but counterproductive. You can’t talk someone into feeling desire. What I try to do is see if there is anything there, and if there is, amplify it. If there isn’t then I don’t waste my time.
Would I LTR someone who wants sex on the first date? Probably not, but exceptions could be made depending on the circumstances. Say, if we’d spent an entire day together doing several different activities and every moment was wonderful, and we’ve established deep connections on several levels, then sure.
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
You misunderstand. What our egos fear is rejection. Get past that hurdle and anything else is lagniappe.
[/QUOTE]
And based on the comments in this thread, such fear is not unfounded.
harmswai: If you are not asking rhetorically, I say Yes! Perhaps you could try being more aggressive. Be sure and be aggressive in the sense of “You are lovely and irresistable, my dear! My blood is boiling!” and not “Arrr! Drop what you’re doing! Do this now!” (unless that’s specifically what she likes.)
i have found that when i become more agressive, she throws up the “all i’m good for is sex” block. i was always under the impression that she wanted a more passive partner, having been in a physically abusive relationship in the past. then 2 years ago, she “changed”(in several ways), wanting me to be more dominant in bed. no prob, i’ve got the experience from past relationships, but 10 + years of being more passive was hard to get out of habit. it didn’t quite work. maybe my idea of “agressive” and hers were different, maybe our expectations, as well. we had other issues, and it just hasn’t been the same. :smack:
[QUOTE=Zsofia]
Look, I really did just do it once! And then later, when we’d broken up because he moved away, he was talking about how hard it was to find good relationship-oriented women and he said something like “No offense, but I’m totally not looking for somebody who has sex on the first date.” Yeah, I felt low. Thanks.
[/QUOTE]
How long was later? Breaking up because he moved away makes it sound like it may have worked out longer if he hadn’t moved, and he was just being an asshole. Although I must admit, I said the same thing to the very first girl I had a one night stand with. I was young, and I didn’t know how else to tell her I wasn’t interested in pursuing anything farther.
Every gal who has sex on the first date has to do it once before they do it again, but I very seriously doubt that I just happened to be so special that 90% of the gals I’ve had one night stands with after a first date/meeting chose me as their first, and then felt the need to tell me. I’ve always taken announcing it as a sign of insecurity, i.e. she’s not saying it for me, she’s saying it for her.
I’m glad brujaja brought up this, though:
[QUOTE=brujaja]
Maybe I should mention that when I talk about a “first date”, I don’t mean someone I just met at work or something whom I’ve never seen before, or somebody’s frat brothers.
[/QUOTE]
This is the situation I’m talking about. If it was the situation she’s talking about, even though it’s a first official date, you guys have known each other for awhile anyway, so it’s just a formality. I don’t like this definition as much, because if there are already OMGs over having sex after this kind of first date, what about those having sex before this kind of first date? :eek:
Well, there’s a difference between “Hey, we’ve known each other for a long time, let’s go out on a date, and by the way, let’s have sex afterwards,” and “Hi, nice to meet you. Let’s have sex now.”
Here’s the thing. If she’d sleep with me after just meeting me, then it would be delusional to expect different behavior from her in the future. I know for a fact that I’m not an irresistable megastud. So that means I have two choices. I can continue seeing her on a no-strings basis (if she’s even interested in seeing me again), or I can stop seeing her. Expecting this hypothetical woman to suddenly want a monogamous life partner is delusional. It might happen, but you’re going to find yourself slamming head first into a brick wall if you expect it to happen.
Of course, if you’re a woman and you’re looking for a monogamous relationship and you meet a guy and have sex with him right away, that doesn’t mean you’ve thrown away the possibility of a monogamous relationship. It’s just that he’s going to be wondering what’s up with that. Of course, it’s perfectly fair for you to wonder what’s up with him, sleeping with you just because you came on to him, and if he’s going to continue that sort of behavior with other people in the future. And the answer is likely to be “yes”.
I am a 25 year old woman, FTR.
If I have been friends with a guy for a long time and we decide to date and end up sleeping together immediately that is one thing but I would never have sex on a first date with someone I don’t really know. In general my rule there is 4 weeks*, though that isn’t a hard and fast rule either. If it takes a little more or a little less time for me to really get to know you I don’t mind waiting or speeding up as the occasion requires.
I don’t know that I would ever completely trust someone who had known me for an hour and half and jumped at the idea of having sex with me immediately. The odds are good that this is not a one time thing for him and I am going to be left alone when he leaves me for the next woman who can be sexy and interesting for an hour and a half.
When I do decide that I can be intimate with someone I have no qualms about asking for it though. I am pretty aggressive when it comes to that kind of thing and I haven’t heard a complaint about it yet. 
*My rule used to be 4 dates, but I kept running into men who, when they asked about getting laid that night, would try to figure out a way to cram 3 or 4 dates into the span of a single day. The point of waiting is to get to know him, see if we get along, see how he treats the waitress, etc., not to set an arbitrary amount of time to have him jump through hoops before he has access to my hoo-ha.
[QUOTE=Lemur866]
Of course, it’s perfectly fair for you to wonder what’s up with him, sleeping with you just because you came on to him, and if he’s going to continue that sort of behavior with other people in the future. And the answer is likely to be “yes”.
[/QUOTE]
I disagree.
Before I married my previous wife, I played around. After we became “exclusive” and until we separated, I was faithful to my promise of fidelity. We were together for more than 12 years and we broke up over her infidelity, not mine.
In the time I was dating recently, I had sex with more than a couple of women - some, indeed, on the first date. Now that I’m married again I intend, and have no doubts, that I will remain faithful to my marriage vows to “forsake all others”. I believe that my new, decidedly non-virginal wife, will remain faithful to me, too.
Fidelity is a big deal with me - my philosophy is that if you don’t think you can have sex with one person only, don’t get married.
I think that sleeping around while dating is not necessarily a good indicator of marital fidelity later. I do think, however, that cheating during an exclusive dating relationship is a good indicator.
[QUOTE=Freudian Slit]
Huh? I’m sure lots of women haven’t had sex on the first date…this seems kind of creepy. Like you’re trying to catch someone out.
Also, if a guy is willing to have sex on the first date and yet he assumes that a woman shouldn’t be, that would annoy me–hypocrite much?
[/QUOTE]
I don’t think I was clear. I when I said haven’t done this before, I was implying that the sex was already over (or about to happen). I don’t know what “catch someone out” means.
I never said anything about saying a woman shouldn’t be willing to have sex on a first date; only that in my experience, women that do aren’t looking for an LTR. It doesn’t mean I wouldn’t be open a LTR with somebody I was intimate with on a first date. But, no, I’m not being a hypocrite, because I’m not currently looking for a LTR, so being willing to have sex on a first date doesn’t clash with any of my observations.
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger]
I don’t think I was clear. I when I said haven’t done this before, I was implying that the sex was already over (or about to happen). I don’t know what “catch someone out” means.
I never said anything about saying a woman shouldn’t be willing to have sex on a first date; only that in my experience, women that do aren’t looking for an LTR. It doesn’t mean I wouldn’t be open a LTR with somebody I was intimate with on a first date. But, no, I’m not being a hypocrite, because I’m not currently looking for a LTR, so being willing to have sex on a first date doesn’t clash with any of my observations.
[/QUOTE]
Well, what I mean is, say you meet a woman and you go on a date, and you start making out…and sex ensues…are you then disappointed with her because she put out, even though you were just as willing? Does it make a difference if she’s pushing for it harder, etc.?
The idea that a woman should be a “gatekeeper” is what annoys me. Like the guy is all for sex but wants her to say no…that’s the attitude I find creepy.