Men!

The BBQ Pit
61

Why?

People who judge themselves by the relationships they are in or the lack thereof never come close to finding happiness. They are pathetic souls who settle for substandard mates just so they can say that they are in a relationship. I believe that far too many people in this world are like this.

I’m not saying you are this person, Nacho. You are still very young and I remember going through similar shit at your age. But the grand irony of relationships is that once you gain the confidence to be happily single, people will be attracted to you.

You sure as hell don’t need a boyfriend before you are entitled to happiness. Don’t look for someone to complete you. Don’t blame an entire demographic for your unhappiness. You are have more power over your life than you realize. You are a young intelligent woman living in the 21st century.

Go on and live your life, you mope!

62

Listen to Gamma - whoops I mean Alpha. Finding the happiness within is the key.

63

You just have to find out what works for you. In my case, I found out the hard way, but that’s okay. The hard way is the only way I learn anything signifigant. What can I say, I’ve got a very heard head.

64

Sara said:

This is a really stupid thing to say. The last thing I am is a Britney Spears fan, nor do I find her all that special or attractive.

What I can’t understand is why you would foul your heretofore intelligent posts with a such a bullshit statement.

You were joking right?
Please tell me you didn’t actually mean that, please tell me something so that I can go back to respecting your posts.

Please, for the love of creatures great and small (how fitting), tell me that what you said had some high-brow, hidden meaning that was over my sloping, beetle-browed forehead.

Now that we got that overwith, let me tell you a thing or two about men and women.

I was lucky. In high school I was popular, and athletic, and lucky with the girls. I was* the asshole that would date a girl just to get in her pants and then dump her, and she would call her guy friend (who was my friend, too) and say some stupid shit like this:

“I thought he was so cool. Why do I like him so much? Why doesn’t he like me? What’s wrong with me? I wish more guys were like you, Joe, you’re so nice. Why can’t I meet someone who is nice, and sensitive, and funny, who will love me for me?”

This whole time Joe is thinking:
“You have, he’s staring you right in the face. I am all those things, I love you. I could make you happy. Why don’t you like me as anything but a friend?”

But Joe says:
“I don’t know. You’re too good for him, he doesn’t know what he’s doing, he’s immature. You can do better, and you will… <insert various and sundry self-esteem building chatter, and maybe even some crying>”

See, the problem is, people bitch about not getting what they want when they don’t know what they want. Remember that old adage about “You have to love yourself before you can love someone else”? There’s a lot to that. I have no doubt that you have a great self image, Sara, but I wonder if you have clearly in mind what you’re looking for in a mate.

So many people are miserable because they are looking for what they think they should want, and have done no soul searching nor put any thought into why and what and how and so on.

Really, people need to stop searching for a scape goat, and stand up and take some responsibility for their own happiness. Instead of blaming everything on something else, show some spine and think about why you’re not happy. Try to understand that you have no one but yourself to blame if you choose not to take action against the things that cause you displeasure in life.

Don’t whine about it, do something.
It’s an age old debate, “To be or not to be…” (you know the rest) comes to mind.
The point is that you should spend less time crying about the spilled milk and think about the best way to clean it up.

Buddha said it best:
“Life is suffering.”

If you can accept this, you are best equipped to realize that if you expect life to be peachy all the time you are only setting yourself up for disapointment. Buddha was neither optimistic nor nihilistic, he was realistic. So too should you try to be.

Life is not a bowl of cherries.
Bad things happen to good people.
Not everything is going to work out.
You’re gonna have to work hard, and sometimes it sucks.

And on a final note, I’d like to add that if you were a guy Sara, I think things would be easier. Not better, just easier.

And that’s all I have to say about that.
Thank you for your consideration.

~Santi
*I’m not that guy any more. I grew up, mostly because my popularity faded to 0 in college, and I was the guy getting the call at 4 am from “friend girls” about the asshole who came over drunk 2 hours ago fucked them and then just left. I used to piss me off, but I learned a lot. Just for the record.

65

I think that the reason Lexi thinks it would be easier if you were a guy is because he’s so new at being a schlub. Those guys guys who were born to schlubness might find it easier only because they expect it.

I set a timetable for myself, thinking twenty-seven would be a good time to get married. I’d have my doctorate, be a little settled, that sorta crap.

Realized a Phud in Anthro would not lead to a job and would only be useful to lord over jerks on the web (if it had existed) and I could do that with a lousy BA from a jerkwater college. Since I had found Ms Right, and knowing that excessive delay could be fatal, I got married instead. Five years off schedule. Moral? Schedules are made to be broken.

Other moral? Attractive older guy that I may or may not be, you’re not gettin’ any of THIS. :wink: Especially if I have to invest in ten dinners and ten dozen roses! :wink: :slight_smile: :wink:

66

I was one of the ones who replied to Alphagene’s obviously sarcastic post “in support” of what he said.

I am not ganging up on Sara, or the “womenfolk” at large. I realize that both her post and Alphagene’s post were meant, at least to some extent to be sarcastic as well as stereotypical.

I am well aware that there are indeed some men who base their socializing preferences ENTIRELY on a woman’s looks (and many more men who place an inordinate importance on a woman’s looks, if it’s not their “sole criterion”). I am equally aware that there are women whose base their socializing preferences ENTIRELY on a man’s money (and again, many more women for whom this is “inordinately important”).

I have no idea which of these stereotypes are more prevalent. Moreover, I DO NOT CARE. I honestly hope that shallow people on both sides of this stereotype end up with each other. Honestly. Maybe the two people in question are just twisted and dysfunctional enough to be happy (if incredibly shallow and stupid).

In a way, I almost envy such shallowness. Meaning, I half wish that I didn’t care if my SO had a personality, or a brain. Maybe I’d have found one by now.

But I do want someone smart, funny, sensitive (all those things I’m not…oops…shouldn’t have said that…blew my cover). Model looks aren’t required. In fact, I think I might be slightly intimidated by great looks. I’m man enough to admit that I just might be too insecure to be hitched to a beauty queen.*

Yes, I do admit that looks count for something–I don’t know if I could have a relationship with someone I found physically unattractive. But then, I’m guessing that very few of you would, either. Good or great looks are only a small part of the total package. In this, I believe–I hope–I’m no different from the rest of you.

You know, there are many things I don’t particularly like about myself. But what I look for in a potential SO is something I’m comfortable with.

Oh, and I quoted Flypsyde above. Didn’t mean to single you out there, Flypsyde.

*I probably really stepped in it AGAIN. If a potential date ever reads this, she’d probably slap me and say “Oh, so you don’t think I’m attractive enough to be a beauty queen, huh?”

67

I have not idea what you are talking about here, Lexicon. The fact that most of my guy friends at college drool over BS’s videos three times a day, talk about all the disgusting things they want to do to her body, and rate girls on how close to looking like Britney they come makes me think that men my age are idiots who drool over a bigger idiot with nothing to offer but boobs and a blonde hair. That sort of bullshit is exactly what makes me pissed at men my age, as I stated in my OP. Nothing to offer personality-wise, just T&A, and men eat it up. How is that stupid? If you were taking personal exception to my comment, please notice that I said “MY AGE” meaning 19. And I can safely say that a large percent of men my age love BS because of the aforementioned ridiculous reasons.

If you still think I am stupid, then phooey on you. I know what I am talking about. I almost rushed a sorority: I had a lot of contact with several hundred horny frat boys. And in every frat house I visited (about 7 total) there was a BS poster. Every one. THAT is stupid, not my comment, thankyouverymuch.

I say this because I want to have a big family - maybe 5-8 kids, maybe more (I love children and they like me, too). I want to have time to have all those kiddies. Also, personally speaking, I really don’t want to be single at 32. I want to have settled down by then. I have no rational reasoning except that I don’t want to spend my life alone.

I know that. I don’t need a boyfriend…never said that. I’m perfectly happy being single and alone. It just seems to me that what I mentioned in the OP is true, so I ranted about it. I have been single for a while and it’s cool. But I don’t want to be alone for the rest of my life.

I didn’t mean my “men are pigs” rant to turn into a “Sarah can’t get a date” rant. I can, but all the guys I REALLY want are awesome guys who are, for some reason, temporarily insane and hooked on skinny blonde hoochies.

I am happy. I was just pissed. I am happy 95% of the time. People tell me I smile too much. I was not blaming anyone. I don’t think I’m to blame for men being attracted to ditzy idiots. I never blamed anyone. I was simply expressing rage that seemingly intelligent men lose their minds over stupid women with nothing to offer.

As for taking action, I’m planning on it. But this IS the Pit and I am allowed to rant a little, aren’t I? Thanks.

Now I am really confused. What am I supposed to clean up? I can’t change every man’s mind. I can’t make every man see why women who are not perfect can have more to offer than perfectly beautiful idiots. To be or not to be? I am. I have no idea what you are talking about. What are you saying? That is the question…

Again, I will cry all the fucking time about whatever I want. Thanks.

I disagree with that shit on every level. My life is not suffering. I say it best:

“People are only as happy as they expect to be.”

I walk through life with a smile on my face. I am happy all the time. It takes a lot to make me break down and cry. I am seldom disappointed. I expect the best from myself and tend to live up to my expectations.

My philosophy is that if I go into something expecting it to suck, it will, because my outlook was all skewed. If I keep an open mind and laugh whenever I can, life looks pretty damn good most of the time. I decide to be happy most of the time and succeed most of the time. Why expect life to be awful when it’s not?

I’m not 12, I’m 19. I have faced many difficulties in my life (which I have mentioned in other posts and do not feel like bringing up now) and I have learned quite a bit in my finite years. I know that life is not perfect, that I won’t always get my way. I don’t care. I am smiling anyway. I can only do my best and hope everyone else does the same. And doing it with a positive outlook is the best way I know how.

No, because then everything would be complicated by my second brain/penis. Who wants one of those? Not me, no thanks.

Final Thoughts:

  1. I can get a date. I just happen to think there are few men worth dating. (I know that goes against the pos. outlook thing, but I am still angry about the “Z” situation.)

  2. I stand by what I said before: “In my experiance, men are willing to forgive most personality flaws if the package is perfect, while women are willing to forgive most flaws in the packaging if the personality if perfect. I just don’t understand the appeal.”

  3. The philosophy debate was fun, but let’s all get back to the OP, K?

68

Scratch that. I forgot this is the Pit. Bitch and moan about whatever you want. Have fun. :slight_smile:

69

I asked my SO (who is 18 years my senior) at what age do men stop being hormonally driven idiots. His answer: “27.”

By the way, I’m finally marrying the big lug on July 14th. Please send good karma. The ceremony is outside and I have to walk down a hill and I’m terrified I’m going to fall off my high heels.

70

Damn it! My sig disappeared!

71

Jeez! I only plan to have 1 kid…2 at the most. No offense but that’s an immature statement considering children cost on average a half million a piece to bring up these days (and when you have kids and bring them up it’ll be up to $800,000 a piece). 5-8 SHEESH! Well i’m NOT gonna be poor! I hope you’re majoring in something that’s gonna make you a lot of money cause you’ll need it (whoever the guy is you hook up with better be making a lot of money too, Sheeeeeeeesh!!!).

As for me, I prefer a more lavish lifestyle. They say the more intelligent the people the less kids they have–think about it!

(you should listen to lexi, and alpha and falcon and me and…etc… get wisdom pleasse! don’t just poke replies—at us, it makes you look bad)

72

[QUOTE]
**

  1. I hear ya, sister. However, it has become easier to deal with since I realised that ** I ** am the one with exacting standards of who I want and who can deal with me, not them. I am the one with the unfair expectations. And I’m gradually getting better at getting rid of those unfair expectations. If you have a specific image of who your prince will be, you will never learn anything from anyone who is NOT that prince. And I wholeheartedly believe that the best thing I get out of relationships is insite into myself. Does that make sense?

  2. Men are conditioned by the media just as much as women are. They are taught that unless they drink a certain type of beer, they are not a “real man.” The same concept goes for taste in women. Unless they lust after a certain type of woman, they are not a “real man.” I don’t believe all this “men are more visual…” stuff. Sure, you can SEE her better, but that doesn’t negate the personality stuff. I think it’s conditioning, pure and simple. And I TOTALLY believe the “it’s not MEN, it’s American Men.” argument. We’re more image oriented in this country than most, and if the image the media is flashing at us is Kate Moss, that’s the image we’re gonna buy. It’s not that men are pigs, it’s that men are trained to be pigs from the time they turn on a TV, and until they are old enough to realise that images are not what the real world is about, they are going to drool over the Britneys. Which is why older men are better. :wink: (before you start feverishly typing out a reply, keep in mind I DON’T think all men are pigs. I think men are humans, and women are humans, but men are told that being a pig is more masculine, and therefore better. I like men. Honest.)

  3. Oops. Sorry. It might be easier if you figure out exactly what you want from a relationship. And then categorize what is realistic and what is not. It is a well-discussed fact that Swiddles turns into a puddle of estrogen around men who like kids. Does that mean I’d summarily dismiss a guy BECAUSE he can’t stand kids? Nope. It’s something I look for in a guy, but not something I EXPECT. And that distinction is important.

Flame away, indignant Dopers.

73

well said swiddles. you hit the nail on the head with the bit about expectations.
my apologies for the my first post in sounding so harsh, but i imagine that what Swimming Riddles said is a great example of why i find “american” women so fickle. so many expectations placed on the “american” man, and vice versa. Except, as american as i am, i was raised without TV, in an orthodox Jewish home with very little of the medias influence, and so never succumbed to the general conditioning of the american male that in another thread is come to be described as “pussified” as well. To stay with the OP, I believe that if you drop your expectations of the person you are attracted to, and try to accept what is real about him, not impose a mask on him to wear and expect him to be that mask, but to strip away all masks and learn what makes him who he is, (as well, he should be doing the same for you…) and maintain open and clear communication about it all, you will find yourself not in these “z” type situations. If a woman can’t figure out what it is she wants, and blames her confusion and frustration with a relationship on the man for not living up to her expectations, then how is the man supposed to figure out what she wants, and live up to her expectations himself? and also, why should he? why should she? but i’m sure at 19 you can’t expect to solve it all right away otherwise you’d become Dr. Love yourself, at 25, i’m still working on it.

74

No? Well, here it goes…

Listen you dumb, ignorant, shit for brains, teenaged, know-it-all half-wit!!!

You are fucking 19 years old? What you know about life can be stored in a thimble. I know you think you know a lot but you don’t. Everyone who claims they think you seem older than you really are, well, guess what? They are just being nice!!!

You think you know a lot about life but you can’t even deal with a lousy DMV clerk. How lame are you?

The guy you’ve got a hard on for doesn’t drop on his knee for you? Well, tought shit you silly tart. Maybe he thinks you are simply an immature 19 year old. Maybe he isn’t interested in a long term relationship right now and in his old age, on his death bed, he’d rather remember a fling with a knockout dumb blond than some silly kid who thinks she is far smarter than she really is.

Maybe you have way over-estimated your own appeal to him. Maybe you are just a little bitter that guys your age would rather chase the tale of a hot hoochie than settle down with an overly serious harpie.

So listen more, talk less and quit taking yourself so seriously you big :wally !!!

75

Damn… who shoved the keyboard up your ass sideways?

Go have a drink or get laid or something. Calm down.

76

I post so infrequently, I really hesitate to do this but…a large part of me can’t resist

Nacho4Sarah, in her Fuckin Govt Employees thread:

I note nothing about how he:

I have nothing against you being interested in a cute doc, but it is an interesting juxtaposition in light of the contents of this thread. You rant against men who go gaga over a hot bimbo type, slamming them as shallow. Yet here you share about a potential romantic interest, and you comment on his physical attractiveness and are clearly excited about the lucrative/high-status nature of his occupation. Isn’t that THE stereotypical mate for the shallow woman - a cute doctor? Maybe this fella does treat you with kindness and respect and makes you laugh, and it just seems like you are being shallow getting all excited about his cute doctorness(just as maybe those guys are only seeming to go gaga because she’s a full-breasted tit willow, and you miss what they are actually attracted to)
I pass no judgement, nor do I have any particularly opinion, about how you (or anyone)evaluate potential mates, nor what initially attracts you to them - “one cannot choose where the heart leads”. I do, however, get a huge kick out of seeing someone make sweeping disparaging generalizations, and then apparently engage in what they were objecting to.

P.S. I used to be an ICU nurse - if he’s a surgeon…well, nevermind

77

Hey Bump! Knew here? Welcome!

Now listen up you newbie fuck, this is the pit so shove it.

If I have to read another thread about <sob> “Why can’t he/she just like me for who I am!!!” <boo-hoo> <sob,sob> I’m going to start shooting people. (Well, not really cuz I’m not violent by nature, but you get my meaning :))

Get over it, for christ sake! You are not god’s gift to anyone. Nobody is… well, except if you are Pamela Anderson, or Katherine Zeta Jones, or even Angelina Jolie (even though she had that incest thing going on…)

… now that’s the first good idea I’ve heard all day…

See ya…

78

Shaky! Don’t be so modest pal - that was brilliant work digging up that quote!

I only wish it was me instead of you that found it. What a stroke of luck that would have been. (read: I’m not above rubbing salt into an opponent’s wounds when an occassion calls for it.)

P.S. Need I remind you folks, this is the pit. I would not presume to behave this way in the other forums so take it all with a grain of salt or find another sandbox to play in. :wink:

79

Sara:

The only constant with women is change. That is, they seem to want to change US.

Find the perfect guy. I guarantee you will eventually find some imperfection in him that you will want to change. I’ve experienced this with every woman I’ve ever dated.

Guys:

Be prepared to change. It is only through constant surprise that you will keep the woman of your dreams. It’s a lot of effort, but you’ll be surprised at how adept you can become.

All:
Get used to the fact that you will never meet eye to eye on anything. Still, it helps to compromise.

For those of you who feel they should never have to compromise:
Be prepared for a long, lonely life.

80

Wow. Whenever Quicksilver joins the fray, I am guaranteed an eloquent and well-thought out post with lots of valid points written in an intelligent, clear, level-headed manner.

In OppositeTown. Perhaps, ya :wally, not all 19 year olds were as ass-backward as you obviously were (I say obviously because it is evident you are ass-backward now, and one can assume that a person does not grow less mature with age) Do I, as a 20 year old have the insight that I as a 60 year old will? No. Do I as a 20 year old have insight at this point in my life that some 60 year olds will never have? Sure. Do they have insight that I will never have? Sure. People are radically different from each other, and your insistence on categorizing people into neat, easily little boxes is small minded and ignorant. You can not understand all women. I can not understand all women. I can understand myself. Other than that, I am not willing to categorize anyone. You might want to attempt to see people as individuals. This ain’t 1984, my friend.

And just because you’re an ass and this is the pit: fuck off.