On the plus side, Astros now no longer have the most memorable one-inning meltdown of the postseason.
Yeah I generally don’t care for Harold Reynolds but he’s been on point for this game.
To be perfectly honest, there really is no reason to slide at home on a force play.
It’s legal. There’s no reason to slide into second or third on a force, either, but it’s legal too.
There is a reason: if the force isn’t made, you don’t want to be overrunning the base or you’ll be tagged out. That doesn’t apply at home.
(That has nothing to do with whether it’s legal.)
Exactly. And it is entertainment!
Been a rough couple of days for fans of Texas’s baseball teams, but both had great runs, exciting seasons and out performed expectations. Made for an enjoyable year.
For some irrational reason, Toronto annoys me much more than Kansas City, hope KC crushes them in the ALCS.
That Jays - Rangers game was one of the most entertaining sporting events I’ve watched. Two thumbs up for the Jays.
I hope all of Toronto is embarrassed by the fans’ behavior during today’s game. I don’t care how angry you are about an ump’s call, there is no excuse for raining bottles down on the field and the lower decks. I saw one brief shot on TV of a woman holding a small child and crying while surrounded by stadium personnel. The commentators said that at least one person in the lower decks was injured by an object thrown from an upper deck. Disgraceful.
I hope Kansas City steamrolls over Toronto in four straight.
The problem is that the ump initially waived the play off and acted like it was a dead ball, so no Jays player did anything to respond to the play. Then upon review and consultation the ball was deemed live and the run counted.
Now, granted, there probably wasn’t an opportunity for a Toronto player to make the play at home anyway, but the fact that the home plate umpire waived the play off should have been sufficient to have the runner returned to third.
In retrospect, the correct call was made and instant karma caught up with Texas with three consecutive errors.
I’m not proud or supportive of the fans who chose to hurl bottles and cans, but that was a very unprecedented play. In all my years of playing and watching baseball I’ve never seen that happen. And again, the ump waived the play initially. That’s got to be frustrating for fans.
Especially when the call was correct. If you really need to rage and throw bottles and shit on the field, at least have your idiot behavior be sourced by a legitimate injustice.
See above.
Well, bummer of an ending for the Astros. Great season for the team, and the Cy Young and (maybe) Rookie of the Year awards will be a nice consolation. They should be able to build some pretty good teams around the core of Altuve, Correa, Springer (maybe), and Keuchel for the next few years.
For the Jays, the big worry from that last game is that Cueto may have gotten his mojo back, which makes the Royals much scarier.
Well, no, the call on the field was of course wrong, because the initial call was dead ball, which is unquestionably wrong. And then they allowed a run to score after the play was wrongly called dead, and that’s also wrong. The umps ended up allowing to happen what really should have happened - Odor scoring - but got there through absolute ineptitude. To be honest, I cannot think of a way in the rule book to make that situation right because it’s not accounted for, that I can find, as to what you do if an umpire calls time but should not have done so and something happens after time was wrongly called that should have happened had it not been but not through an automatic result.
Had Toronto lost the league office would have been in a pickle with their protest because that play was screwed up very badly and there was no way to untangle it, really. All academic, fortunately.
It was the damnedest inning. I’ve never seen a play like that. I’ve never seen a team make three errors in a row to start an inning. Just bizarre. Baseball is so wonderful, really. It’s the same for 130 years but still it’s always different.
Should it be accounted for, then? If so, what should the solution be?
I agree. Surprising and disappointing. The trouble is that when one or two idiots start something like this, a few others join in because it seems OK – it’s mob psychology, unfortunately, and doesn’t typify the city, its residents, or Jays fans. You can take solace in the fact that justice was done in at least one case, probably others – this guy is in for a world of trouble:
Toronto Police Arrest Blue Jays Fan Who Nearly Hit Baby With Beer Can
Right, because it was the Jays throwing beer cans? Did you see Encarnacion with his hands up to the crowds pleading with them to stop? Don’t take it out on the team or the fans, or the 99.9% of those in attendance who had nothing to do with it, and who probably helped ID one or more culprits to police, like the one above.
Anyway, guys, I’m much more of a hockey fan than a baseball fan but I really got caught up in this postseason and especially this game. The 7th inning will be famous for years, for a bunch of different reasons.
And you can thank me for the Jays win. Send gifts or money, whatever you like. The Jays were tied and I stepped away for a few minutes to make a quick snack. When I came back, Bautista had scored a 3-run homer. I know it was me because the same thing happens in hockey – the Hockey Gods always make the critical goal happen when I step away. It’s a power that I have.
I believe there’s some omnibus rule tucked in the book that says if something comes up not covered by the rules, the umpire has the authority to use his best judgment. If the run would have scored had time not been called, then the run should score. Amazing feat by the Jays, coming back after losing first two at home. Astros lose their chance to be the first team to advance to World Series from both leagues, they and the Brewers will try again next year.
Right- they use it all the time on fan interference plays, ie, on plays where runner from first would have easily scored, even though the rule says ‘dead ball, 2 bases’ the ump will allow the runner to score. It was a bad error by the ump, but understandable, since it’s a play that happens basically never, that the ump didn’t immediately recall the rule. He waited a moment before calling time, and on the replay, the runner was well more than halfway home when he did call time, with no fielder close to the ball. There is absolutely do doubt that if the ump didn’t stop the play, the run would have scored.
It’s a flukey play, but the cause of it is sloppiness by the Toronto catcher. The batter didn’t put his bat out at the last minute, he was standing there in the box holding it up, in a very ordinary way that batters tend to do. Bad luck, but all the catcher’s fault, so the idea that it’s a run that shouldn’t have scored, or is something that put Texas at some karmic disadvantage, at the mercy for justice from the baseball gods is just false.
Credit the Blue Jays for being able to overcome that mistake, because more often than not it seems when a team gives up go ahead run late in a game on an error, they never seem to recover. Maybe the fans outrage helped fuel a perceived injustice gave them an anger boost of adrenaline that helped spark a rally, an element that might have been lacking if the catcher had simply accidentally thrown the ball into center field instead. I still stand by my original comment that throwing shit on the field is always disgusting behavior, but if it’s gonna happen, at least have it be caused by an actually injustice.
“Except in the cases stated…no umpire shall call time while a play is in progress.” This has been interpreted that such an errant call is simply void. I agree that addressing this point explicitly would be a good idea. But players are taught to complete plays, at least through the next base or tag, regardless of an umpire apparently interrupting them with a call. Sometimes calls are changed or negated; you want to be in the position of having touched the bag or the runner, not complaining that you could have. Odor was commendably alert, and already in motion when the bogus call was made.
That’s pretty unfair. The initial call was wrong, but everything after that was right. They quickly recognized the initial mistake, they recognized the size of the moment, and they were very careful in resolving it (embodying the “knotty problem” instruction).
“Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules.”
I wholeheartedly agree; Odor was smart to run the play out and the Jays were stupid to not play it out, although they really did not have a play anyway. At the same time, however, if the play is called dead, it’s supposed to be dead.
Had the score stood I wouldn’t have wanted to be the guy who made the decision on the protest; there was no resolution that would have clearly satisfied the rules and the game would have been controversial for generations to come. I think the JUST thing ended up happening on the play, since if the home plate ump does not initially screw up, Odor scores pretty much as easily as he did anyway. So it was made about as right as it could have been given the situation.
I am very pleased to note the Toronto police have already arrested one beer-throwing fan and are apparently on a mission to arrest more. Good. A message should be sent; criminal charges and a lifetime ban from the stadium will discourage such nonsense in the future. It’s unfortunate than out of 50,000 people you’re going to get some yahoos, but you can do something about it.
The issue of takeout slides is a whole other thing, too.
Sure there’s a reason to slide at 2nd and 3rd on a force - it’s the fastest way to get there without over running the bag. To be clear, I agree the slide at home was perfectly legal and I would expect 100 out of 100 players to do the same thing. It was not at all dirty or anything, just technically there’s no advantage to sliding into home on a force out other than to try to break up a throw to 1st.
On the Choo play, I haven’t dug into the rulebook this morning, but what would constitute interference on the throw from the catcher to the pitcher? If Choo’s bat was over home plate? Out of the batter’s box? Anything as long as it looked intentional?