I wonder if Jesus still has his knotted rope handy. The house of prayer seems to have been made a den of thieves again 
Atlanta’s Creative Loafing Newspaper had an article within the past couple of months where they attended and reported on pulpit messaging at various Metro Atlanta church services. I only read a portion of the article, but it was quite interesting to get a peek at what sort of stuff churchgoing folk are encountering.
I can’t seem to find an online copy of the article, and we seem to have tossed or lost our household copy, but when spouting off to my girlfriend about my OP, she said that one section of the article had discussed one particular sermon where the priest/pastor/etc discussed an internal struggle he’d gone through when a member of his congregation had given him a check for her entire life’s savings, wanting to donate it to the church. At first he refused to take it, but she insisted. Then he couldn’t bring himself to cash it, and had it sitting on his nightstand, untill one day he had a “revelation” that God had intended him to have that check, and that by cashing it he was doing God’s work, etc.
It is exactly the sort of thinly veiled justification and rationalization of flat out dishonest, corrupt manipulation that makes my mind boggle at the number of people who choose to participate in such subsections of organized religion.
The problem is that they would blame themselves.
“Well I sinned so God punished me.”
I disagree with this particular sentiment. Your assumption is that God DOESN’T work like that. There IS a difference between a man like that and Pat Robertson. If a woman really truly DOES want to give away her life savings for her community, then that is her prerogative.
However, the thing about tithing that I am wondering is, whether or not the 10% is Profit or Gross. I think it should be profit, because that would solve a whole lot of problems. Then poor people wouldn’t have a problem of needing to tithe because they are receiving no profit. Also tithing goes back to a time when Churches were genuine community centers, and some still are.
I don’t think tithing is a bad thing, and I haven’t done it in a very long time, but if I were going to start, I’d do it through charities that I have researched thoroughly.
In a way being mad at Pat Robertson for preying on stupid and gullible people is like being mad at a Cheetah for taking down the weak Wildebeast. It’s the way nature goes, there are predators everywhere. Unfortunately it’s nearly impossible to get anywhere, because people like many in this thread judge all Christians based on the actions of Pat Robertson. Not all sheep are wolves just because some wolves wear sheeps clothing.
Erek
I fail to see much of a difference between Pat Robertson’s call for donations and the individual from the Creative Loafing story. I might be able to see a difference if the story of the life’s savings check had come from a one on one interview or something like that, but it was from a sermon delivered to his congregation. Even if the story was not intended to prompt more generous donations, I feel it was an irresponsible choice of a sermon topic due to the chances of it being interpreted as such.
I was also clear, I feel, in narrowing the scope of this pitting to the “subsections of organized religion” that operate via calling for and attempting to manipulate their followers into donating no matter what, generously, and repeatedly.
I once heard one of those creatures–I think it was Robert Tilton–say that if you hear voices, it’s demons talking to you and trying to get you, so you should give him money to fight them off. Some poor bastard probably told his psychiatrist that his TV set said demons were after him, and the doctor gave him more Thorazine. :mad:
I’ve been fortunate enough to have never seen the “$700=no hell” club, but I’ve seen way too much of the fallout that happens as a result of it’s (and other “churches”) manipulation of the weakened states of mind of it’s targets.
I used to work in a store that sold musical equipment. Lots of churchies came in (many times with HUGE budgets) often on sundays. They wanted the best they could get, at the lowest price possible. So does everyone else. Except, most people realize that goods need to be paid for, and profit needs to be made by the store (the government likes to get paid too).
About %80 to %90 of the problem issues I had when it came time to actually “close the deal”, were from people representing churches. This isn’t denied credit cards, this is fighting with the clerk about taxes, tithing allowances, and “christian discounts”. Apparently tithing is an entitlement, one gets tax breaks, gets to go to heaven, is better than everyone else, and buys a place at God’s right hand.
Churches used to be slightly ornate buildings whose clergy and maintenance were paid by donation. Now, they are sprawling megaplexes that seat up to 30,000 people, have AV systems that arenas envy, and produce celebrity “spiritual leaders”. How christian. Humble, meek, turn-the-other-cheek types of folks right? I wonder if the money changing kiosks are actually in the temple?
I’m glad that some conservative christians have spoken out against such shady practices. I’ve never been anti-Christian, but I’ve become increasingly opposed to what I percieve to be “Christian politics”. If you don’t like two people of the same sex getting married, or want a suffering person to stay “alive” because you think God considers their suffering part of “his plan”, leave it to God to decide and act on it. Where in the bible does it say “keep homos from gettin’ hitched” or “keep that vegetable of a person alive artificially, they should die when their organs wear out”
I’m really wanting to see the passage that says “My faithfull, go forth and make others follow our doctrine, not through conversation, but through manipulative marketing of religion, protests of actions against our faith, and legal action against anyone who chooses to act in a manner apart from our beliefs.” Lets not forget those in the clergy that threatened a lifetime in hell to those who voted against Bush.
How many years untill the first christian suicide bomber? Don’t hold your breath. They’re not that committed.
My mum used to be a very devout churchgoer – her insistence on giving substantially every week, even when times were hard, was a frequent source of tension between her and my father.
When she was pregnant with me, there were complications – complications that led to her being hospitalized for some time. After a few weeks, she was pleased when the pastor showed up at her bedside – until it became clear that the motivation for his visit was to collect the money that she would have put in the collection plate – had she not been, you know, having a difficult pregnancy.
After that, my parents saw eye-to-eye on donating to the church – and I think I understand where my innate cynicism comes from.
This just in. Robertson apologizes"" for comment on Ariel Sharon’s health.
Dateline SDMB: 700 Club, Robertson painted as crooked, thieves.
Next up: Sky determined by local scientists to be blue.
Jesus, Christ, Sampy, this paragraph made me want to cry.
**swampy ** and **sampy ** - hee hee!
This is debatable, of course, but when was it not?