MSK isn't doing very well...

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

As many of you probably know by now, I have a very problematic emotional disorder, “Avoidant Personality Disorder.”

Well, lately, I have been putting myself in many social environments. I am trying to fight this damnable disorder with as much as I can muster, but I fear I am failing.

Tonight, I took it upon myself to go to the local nightclub. They were advertising the special on the radio, so I decided to go, since cover was only 93 cents and I had all of two dollars to my name.

I arrived there at 10 pm, and by 11:45 pm, I was feeling quite un-well. I began to get a migraine headache and felt extremely upset. It’s the damn AvPD kicking in. The harder I try to fight it, the worse it gets. I was so tense, nervous, and pressured that I just couldn’t take it anymore. I buckled. I got up and left at midnight. I never said one word to anyone. No one approached me, either. I wanted so badly to talk to someone, anyone, but I just couldn’t do it. :frowning: By the time I got home, the tension had made me so upset I was semi-nauseous.

There were more women there than men, very rare in this town. I had plenty of ladies to choose from. That’s really not the problem though, I am.

I try to face my fears only to have them attack me full force and I end up losing the battle everytime. The more I try to fight this thing, the worse I get. I damn near burst into tears driving home from the club, something I haven’t had happen in years.

I try to figure out why I am the way I am, and try to reason it out and such, but I don’t know how much of it is me, or the damn disorder. You really can’t separate the two I guess. I think I am just going to have accept the fact it’s genetic or biological and there’s very little I can do about it.

On the “mindset” half of the issue though is, I asked myself what is the REAL problem here? Why do I feel so damned afraid to meet new people? Well the answer I found, is not one that I like. I don’t know how to “sell” myself. In other words, I lack the ability to tell myself, and anyone else, “what do I have to make so-and-so want to get know me?” The answer is, nothing. I couldn’t help but picture in my mind a person walking into a car dealership, and asking the salesman, “Why should I want to test drive this car or buy it?” and the salesman replies with, “I honestly can give you no reason or incentive for you to want to try or buy this car.”

Ooops, no sale.

In the rare event I do past “Hello” with a stranger, it’s pure hell for me to maintain a conversation for more than 3 minutes. I am serioulsy lacking in social skills. Sad thing is, the more I attempt to develop my social skills, the more damage I end up doing myself. It’s a viscious cycle. It’s kind of like someone who can’t swim, trying to learn how to swim, only to become caught in the undercurrent and drown.

Dear God, how am I supposed to live like this! The emotional pain I am going through right now is indescribable.

I really don’t know what else to say. All I know is that I have at least another 45 years or so of facing living thru this hell.

2

MSK,

A few thoughts from the sidelines, one that was very sociable to one that became a hermit to a complete ass in public and back to slightly sociable.

First off, I don’t recall that you are seeing anyone about this issue, therapy wise. If you aren’t, you might consider it.

Second, you might try something like taking a Dale Carnegie course, seriously. I was a sales rep but it improved my ability to converse with people on all levels, not just my sales. It’s not cheap but worth every damn dime. I saw some people, put through the course who were complete recluses (sp) come out of their shell. Every little bit in the class helped us all on varying levels of social interaction.

Third, I assume that you are experiencing a level of anxiety when in social situations? If this is the case, you might try some of the natural remedies out there if seeing a doc/prescriptions are a concern with costs.

You do very well opening up here. You don’t have to open up as much out in the other world, but you can take some of those skills there. You don’t have to come up with a cheesey line like you are trying to pick up a girl, but you can use some simple means by which to start a conversation. I do this at the stores I frequent with the people and checkers.

A simple “Hi” can (in some circles) go far. You don’t have to introduce yourself, just a simple Hi or even a smile. You can even do this with men!!! Men aren’t off limits to talk to when you are at a bar. Just say Hi, a safe nod and if they respond you may have just found a new person to chat with. Not a new best friend but someone to become familiar with.

Well, enough of my yammering. I am sure you’ve heard it all before but don’t sell yourself short. You seem like a very likeable guy from the time you have been on the boards, I assume if you carry that if you try to carry that thinking into the world you will do just fine.

3
4

What Kvalluf said, except with better coding. :wink:

Seriously, you did damn well to go to the nightclub at all. Keep on taking little steps. You can’t expect to succeed all at once. If you don’t do as well as you wanted to, it doesn’t mean you’ve failed, and it doesn’t mean you’re a failure. It just meant that you bit off a little more than you could chew right then.

If someone was trying to get physically fit, they’d be best off doing a little exercise every day and gradually increasing the amount of exercise. They wouldn’t get up from their armchair and try to run 10 miles. 5 minutes on an exercise bike would be more like it to start with. Sure, they’d have to push themselves a little further each time, but they wouldn’t be advised to grind themselves into the ground.

I think you did well. Congratulations.

5

Well said, Kvalluf, Tansu. As a shy person and social skeptic, I don’t believe in this “APD”; it’s a combination of social inexperience and perfectionism; the anxiety that builds up is akin to stage fright. I suggest looking around for other shy people to talk to; getting in on the ground floor, so to speak.

6

Next time you go to the nightclub, take someone with you. It’ll be less traumatic if you have someone to act as a safety valve.

7

snooooopy, that was mean. Or maybe just not paying attention. Part of the problem is there’s no one to take with him!

MSK, I’d like to apologize to you for acting like a jerk on IM. I know you’re reaching out, which is difficult. I just don’t relate all that well to guys out of the blue (my buddy list is 90% girls, and the rest is family).

I can’t approach people either. But I still go out, without the intention of meeting anyone (not without the hope, though). Just to go places and hang out and watch people. Sure, sometimes it’s depressing being alone in the crowd, but sometimes it’s a lot better than sitting at home every night.

Take up a hobby, like photography or something that you can do alone, but will get you out and around.

8

techchick has good advice. Take a Dale Carnegie course, or join Toastmasters.

There are a couple of Toastmaster’s Clubs in South Bend, and they take everyone. They are completely accepting of your “public sell” as you put it, and give extremely constructive advice. Go to a couple of meetings, it certainly can’t hurt.

9

What everyone else said, Alan.
Going out like you did and staying there for that long with only $2 took more courage than I have ever had.
Small contribution - apologies if you already know this: sometimes you can hold a conversation for ages without having to say much at all - just ask the othe person about him/herself. Good listeners are POPULAR. Maybe practise listening, rather than worrying about what to say?
NB, caveat : this may work better with guys.

Hang in there, mate.

{{{Hugs}}}

10

Munch said:

Yes, this is great advice. Also, do you have any hobbies? Joining a club that caters to the hobby is a great way to meet smaller groups of people with which you will already have something in common, so there’s already a built-in conversation starter. You could also volunteer to help an organization that needs it, too - that’s a way to meet new people and do something good at the same time.

Here’s some examples from my life: I am a volunteer involved in the adoption of ex-racing greyhounds. Not only is there a good group of very fine folks right here in my area who get together regularly, there are many groups of volunteers doing this very same thing throughout the country. We keep in touch via an Internet listserv, because we often need the help of people doing the same thing in other states. This has given me built-in friends all over the country, and a number of social events revolving around this interest occur during the year that allow us to get together. It’s very cool knowing that you could visit almost any city in the US and some in Canada and know someone there.

I also belong to a beer-brewing club, which by its nature tends to just be a local thing, but occasionally trips to other areas to check out the local microbreweries are organized, and we get a chance to meet other homebrewers in that area.

My husband plays tournament chess, and has gotten to know quite a few people via that route.

The possibilities are, well, darn near endless …

11

Hon, I can’t give any more great advice than the advice already given… I just want you to know I’m still there for you. Even getting up the COURAGE to do this is a brave thing. Remember, life is full of baby steps. It’s hard to do something you’re afraid of, or that your internal wiring makes it difficult to do. The most important thing I can say is don’t give up. Keep taking those small steps. It might be hard. You might burst into tears when it’s over… so what? Tears are good for the soul. Water washes away the hurt, leaves things sparkling and new. Don’t be ashamed of it if it happens, think of it as refreshing. :slight_smile:

{{{Alan}}}

Remember, you’re already taking the hardest steps, whether you know it or not.

12

I am HIGHLY offended by this statement. Avoidant Personality Disorder is very real. Try a Google search on that exact phrase and you will get over two thousand pages on the subject. I suggest you do some serious in depth research before you go about saying something serious such as this is false. It’s a very real and serious disorder and isn’t to be to be made light of.

13

Personality disorders are hard for everyone involved. Because they’re not treatable by drugs, you end up as the shrink just trying to get the client to deal with themselves. Not the easiest thing.

MSK: I don’t know what kind of therapy you’re in, but you might want to try cognitive. The goal is to teach patients skills that they can use to work with their disease, instead of just getting through the day. Feel free to tell me to back off, but have you ever been diagnosed with Social Anxiety Disorder? Have you ever tried anti-anxiety drugs? If you DO have APD, the fact that you’re voluntarily going out is in direct conflict to the critereon.

Let us know how you’re doing, K?

14

I’m sorry to sound like the resident drug pusher, but that is what they make anti-anxiety drugs for. Everyone feels nervous about meeting people, talking to strangers, etc. When it becomes a crisis and affects your life to the point that yours seems affected, medication is worth a shot.

Please see a therapist about this. Life is too wonderful to let it slip by because of anxiety.

Zette

15

MSK, your original post sounded like you considered yourself a BIG FAILURE for the whole nightclub experience. Please re-visit that! I’d like to take a poll - how many people reading this, people who do NOT have APD, feel completely comfortable and relaxed going to a nightclub by yourself, where you know you won’t know a soul in there? I know that I would be nervous in that situation.

Same thing with talking to total strangers. After I’ve had a beer or two I can sort of do it. Stone cold sober, in a strange nightclub, all by myself? It’s pretty hard.

I think you deserve a big pat on the back for doing what you did. You did something that most people without APD have a hard time doing, much less enjoying, and you came through it OK. You’re doing great.

16

Umm, where was that stated in the OP? I just re-read it and I don’t see anything about not having anyone to go with him. If you mean it was stated somewhere else, I certainly hope you don’t expect us all to keep up with MSK’s life. It wasn’t mean at all, it was good advice. As a matter of fact, it was the advice I was going to post before I read the responses.

MSK, welcome to life, dude. Some of us were built to be social, others, like you and I, weren’t. When I have gone to clubs alone, I’ve usually felt like a perv or a wierdo. Needless to say, you’re not alone in feeling uncomfortable. Ask a friend from work or even a relative to go with you to the club or bar or whatever. It will be a much better experience. If you drink, you can always talk to the other loners at the bar. I’ve found some pretty good conversation that way. just don’t do it too often or you’ll turn into a creepy bar-person. :wink:

Where do you live? Are there Dopers near you? I’ve had more fun and been able to open up more at Dopefests than I ever have anywhere else. (Well except that one time when I was on X and took off all my clothes at the gay club and…AHEM…never mind about that right now.:D) I sincerely suggest you get some Doper buddies. We’re much cooler than the general populace. :wink:

Another thing that’s helped me in public situations: When I was younger, and went to clubs, I was always on the prowl, and was always “posing”, trying to look “cool” or something. This made me feel like I had to prove something and also made me give off a certain aura. Later, I learned to just go out to have a good time. I really got into dancing and was at the club an average of 2-3 times a week for a year or two. Once I started going just to enjoy myself, people started approaching me! It was…interesting and fun.

Just saw Athena’s post. Yep, count me in. I feel pretty…loserish. I always try to find the strangest looking person at the bar and talk to them while getting “warmed up” with a few beers. There’s always someone who wants to talk at a bar. The problem might be getting them to leave you alone. :wink:

Dude, MSK, if you’re ever near San Francisco, let me know. We’ll take you out and show you a good time. I bet you’ll feel totally comfortable.

17

Wow! I am surprised at all of the positive support you people are giving here. Thank you all very much. I feel better now. I truly do. Dopers kick ass!
There are a bunch of things in this thread I want to respond to, but I will have to do it late this evening, when the boards are clearer and the computer is free, as it is shared.

I will probably be going to church tonight, with my velcro head! I’m quite worried about it, but oh well. I survived last night, I can survive church too.

I’ll be replying later! See ya!

18

[[Personality disorders are hard for everyone involved. Because they’re not treatable by drugs, you end up as the shrink just trying to get the client to deal with themselves.]]

That’s not true. Some are very treatable with drugs. For examples, beta blockers are used for stage fright and antidepressants can work for obsessive compulsive disorders and anorexia/bulimia. We’ve come a long way with effective treatments.

19

I’m going to second the other recommendations with an example.

My ex was extremely snake-phobic. When I met him, he had just started therapy for this. His “homework” was to go once a week to the herpetarium at the local zoo. For more than a month he couldn’t even open the front door to the building because the handles were made in the shape of a cobra. It took a couple of years, but he got to the point where he could approach a woman with a snake and touch the snake and actually enjoy it.

Take it in little steps, do only as much as you are comfortable with, and keep a log - it will help you see that you are getting better. Don’t be dismayed by individual instances where you don’t do as well either - that’s normal. And see a therapist, preferably one who specializes in this type of problem.

20

I’m sorry, sweetie, that you are putting yourself out there (a GOOD thing) and feeling frustrated with the results. I think it is always best to give it your best shot, but at the moment I am not feeling like I am in a position to give you any good advice.

So…the best I can do is to say that I am proud of you, that you are trying. And, I am sending you hugs and positive thoughts.

(((((MSK)))))

Scotti