MSK isn't doing very well...

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

This is going to be long. I’m going to try to address all the posts in order. Take note: PLEASE, do not become frustrated with me, if you can help it. It may seem that I am refuting all of your advice, but this is not the case! I will explain all the extenuating circumstances involved, honestly, and without exaggeration. You will see why life is so frustrating for me. Everything turns out to be a Catch-22.

I have no problem with seeking therapy, except financially. Otherwise, I would thrust myself into it without hesitation. I am unemployed. I have no insurance of any kind. My family will not support me financially in this matter. I am not on Medicaid, Disability, Unemployment Compensation, nor Social Security.
I know, for a fact, that I am not eligible for Unemployment Compensation.
As for the other resources, I have researched Medicaid to some degree, however I do not know if I qualify.
As for Disablity, and Social Security, I have no doubt that I would require a written letter, of some sort, from a certified psychologist or psychiatrist to qualify. I obviously cannot attain such a document, without myself currently undergoing therapy.
The lovely old Catch-22!
I have looked for free therapy services in my locale, but none are available.

I have no idea who Dale Carnegie is, or what his course is about. If it costs money, I again, am unable to attempt this.

Yes, I do experience anxiety, at times. Last night was one of them. As for natural remedies, well again, I have no way to purchase them.

Much easier said than done. When one is face to face with someone else, IRL, it’s far less easy to open up, at least initially. I have tried the “Hi” thing on occasion, and usually don’t get beyond that, or I get a simple “Hi” in return and nothing more. It’s really unpleasant when the other person ignores me totally, which happens often.

Kvallulf…Tansu… Thanks for the encouragement. That was very meaningful for me. As for the small steps thing, I am working on it, but I get impatient, frustrated and want results; or rather, more results than I am achieving currently.

I regret to say that TheNerd is correct.
I have absolutely no friends, outside of the computer. Everyone I went to high school with, moved far away after graduation. I never went to college. Having been unemployed for years, I obviously would have no work friends. As for relatives, well I am out of luck there, as well. I have no siblings, as I am on only child. I have no cousins, or such, whom I could hang with. It’s just me, all alone, in a big scary world. as far as I know, from other threads, the nearest Dopers are all several hours away from me. Being unemployed, traveling is rather moot, as I lack the financial resources to do so. I do own a car however, and do drive. The only way I keep gasoline in it, is from the ten dollars a week I earn from mowing my neighbor’s lawn. aside from that, I have zero income.
Now, let’s review some things…

Here are my positives:
[li]I go out almost daily and take a walk in the park for about an hour or more.[/li][li]Sometimes, when I go to the park, I like to play solo handball, so I do get some kind of exercise and it’s fun.[/li][li]I have weekly activities as well, as resources allow. Maybe a movie at the one dollar theater, going to my local TGIF for Tues. karaoke night, just to hang out. (I don’t sing.) I also go to church regularly.[/li][li]In regard to my “nightclub fiasco” maybe you guys are right in that I didn’t necessarily fail. I mean after all, I went with ONLY 2 dollars, I went alone, and I went with my head shaved! (Which I am quite self-conscious of.) I suppose that takes some degree of “testicular fortitude.”[/li]
I’m not going to re-highlight the negatives. Some are listed above. If you want to know more, look here: My other thread about AvPD

My sincere thanks to everyone who has been supportive. I wish I had the means to meet many of you, in person.

22

MSK, I hope you don’t think I was trying to blow you off with my reply to your email. Please feel free to email me any time. I can’t promise I’ll be quick about replying, but now that school’s out my load should be lifted somewhat. :slight_smile:

–Tim

23

MSK, how do you subsist if you’ve been unemployed for several years?

24

I live with my mother. I basically receive food and shelter, through her, and very little more except the utterly baremost necessities. My dad also contributes to some degree. (parents are divorced)

clothes, gasoline, etc is pretty much all up to me to provide for myself in what ever manner I may, such as my currently mowing the neighbor’s lawn.

25

I also live with my Mom, by the way. And my brother, who provides most of the income for the household.

Poor little APD- I am so sorry I doubted you. I thought you were only an aggravated form of shyness; I should have realized you are a realio, trulio, doctor-certified Disorder in your own right. As the Stick Horse told the Velveteen Rabbit, when somebody loves us enough, we become Real. You are so Real for the Boy that he does not want to be parted from you, even though you make him ill- and of course you are Real for the doctors, who explain you at $75 an hour, and the drug companies, who make a lot of money selling pills to chemically lobotomize your more well-to-do victims.

But now the Boy jumps to your defense! You are Real after all- he is identified with you, and you need never be parted.

26

There’s no need to be so damn rude.

27

MSK,

I was going to say something about going to church to meet people, but I didn’t know if you were religious or not. Do you talk to anyone there, or go to any of their social functions?

Would it be possible to talk to your pastor about what’s going on in your life? It wouldn’t cost anything, and while ministers aren’t psychologists, they have a lot of training in counseling, so talking to him could help.

Also, since you need money, maybe they could put something in the church bulletin about you being available for mowing lawns, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were some older people in your congregation that need help with their yards and probably with some other odd jobs too.

Is there anything keeping you from finding steady employment? Maybe you could work part time at your local grocery or something. They usually need stock people, baggers, etc., who don’t deal much with the public, which I am sure would be easier for you.

28

Tansu, even though Alonicist may not have said it very well, I agree with him. There are people who have diseases/disorders and then there are people who become them.

MSK, it seems like you’re more concerned with this label then you are about getting better. Until you start doing something to help yourself you’re going to be stuck in the same, shitty cycle.

Now, I’m not saying “get over it”, or that these disorders don’t exist, but christ, who doesn’t have a disorder? They’re painful, tough and a lot of other things, but so is life. You need to pursue life, not wallow in it.

29

Personally, someone would have to put a gun to my head before I’d go to a nightclub. And I’m pretty social. (The someone at the moment is my dear B’love’ and even he is only having moderate sucess in dragging me out to his favorite club. I like people, I don’t like having to shout over throbbing music in smoky rooms to talk to said people.)

So, basically, I’m saying you did good! That must have been really, really hard and you did it! One for the home team! Way to go!

So you didn’t say anything, and only stayed two hours. Blah, blah, blah…You went! You are working on this thing and you’re winning! Do you think you would have done that a month or two ago?

You can take this thing, you really, really can.

30

MSK, have you tried to go to college? OK, before you say “I have no money” I want to know if you’ve actually gone to a college, sat down with an admission’s officer, and told them that you’d like to go to school but you have no money whatsoever. Perhaps this could even be done via email or on the phone, if that’s more comfortable for you.

I know for a fact that there’s tons and tons of financial aid out there for people in your position. In fact, I almost think it’s easier for someone with no money to get aid than it is for someone who may be able to finance, say, half of the costs of college.

College is a great thing, and not just because of the degree you might get. It’s easy to meet people, especially if you can bear doing something like living in a dorm. You get to experience a lot of new things and ideas. And who knows - you might come out of it with a skill that you enjoy and also pays well. In your position, where you’re having trouble holding down a job, you don’t have a steady income, and your home life doesn’t sound really fulfilling, it may really be a good thing for you.

31

Speaking from experience as a reasonably social person (I sell commercial real estate for a living) single man nightclubbing is scary enough for highly social people. Using that as a measure of your social abilities is neither wise nor relevant to your problem so put that experience on the rear shelf.
Regardless of whether this avoidance problem of yours is biologically mediated, a learned behavior pattern or both, you need therapy options or eventually you may do something rash. This generally requires either cash or kind people. If you have no money you have to take a gut check and scout out the local churches etc. The larger the better. Go to the head of the church and explain your problem in detail and whether they would welcome you as a member. Inquire about parishioner services.

Re your “selling yourself” issue you are correct to a certain extent. In all honesty I have to admit your sad sackish “I’m a poor, helpless victim of fate” tone in your posts is hard to stomach for someone like myself who has to make a conscious effort to fight to maintain a positive mental attitude (PMA) in the face of problems and adversity which are common occurrences in my line of work. Quite honestly if I met you socially and this was your “vibe” I would probably avoid you, not because I “disliked” you per se but this attitude is a dangerous whirlpool and I have been sucked into them before out a desire to help others.

In the end if you want to “sell yourself” successfully you need to have a few items in your mental toolkit.

1: A goal - make it a realistic baby step that you can build on and no, this does not include nightclubbing.

2: You’re got to care a little bit less about what people (esp strangers) think about you as this is the yawning pit that swallows you up most of the time. If you cannot make this leap to some degree the rest is going to be next to impossible. Drugs are one solution in this scenario and cognitive training is another. In your situation I would suggest standing in front of the mirror and saying 100 times in an loudish, affirmative and confident voice. “Hi I’m MSK and I’d like to be your friend but I really don’t care what the hell you think about me.”

3: You’ve got to get used to blowing it. Out of 100 sales contacts. Out of 100 opportunities to meet and greet others only a very few will ever come to anything. You will fail and fail and fail and fail and through sheer stubborn pestiferousness you will eventually succeed. Initally you will suck most of the time at selling yourself. Get used to it. (see # 2 above for appropriate attitude upon failure)

4: While not a “sales tool” as such in your specific situation, based on the description of the morbidly passive life you lead you’ve got to get angry and I mean really, wildly, insanely, screamingly pissed at your current situation. You’re got to have pure, white hot hatred for your predicament and a determination to change it. While anger is not necessarily a positive force in all situations it is an effective motivator to break out of old behavior patterns as it somehow (in my experience) temporarily changes the way the brain functions and if there one thing that you need to do it’s to cut yourself out of the webs you have woven yourself into over the years. Anger is that knife. Determination is the hand that holds the knife and freedom is your reward.

It’s just my opinion but I don’t think you’re going to get out of this mental and social morass without some serious gut checking and psychic bruises that are initally worse than the everday despair you go through. If you’re hoping some therapist or psychiatrist is going to have a “magic bullet” cure give it up now. Nothing awaits you in the beginning of this journey to freedom but pain and discomfort. Embrace it. Tell God to “Bring it on”. “Bring It On Now!”

Good Luck!!

32

Damn good advice there astro, every single word of it.

33

I’ll second that. Stellar advice, astro.

MSK, listen to this guy, if you don’t listen to anything or anyone else. I think astro’s hit the nail on the head.

34

With all due respect, astro, I think you may be wrong about the getting angry bit. It might work for some people, but for others it may only intensify the undercurrent of self-loathing that is all too apparent here. However, the parts about not caring so much about what other people think are, IMHO, right on target (so long as you don’t swing the other way entirely and become a pompous ass–I doubt that would happen).

I may be wrong here, but I’m an extreme introvert and have gone through what I think is that same “indescribable pain”–it comes from always focusing internally, over-analyzing everything about yourself and how people look at you, worrying that you might say or do something stupid. Self-examination is good until you start beating yourself up; that leads to a self-perpetuating cycle of loneliness and despair. No one will defend you from your own self-doubts except you. The solution, I think, is self-acceptance and the internal will to fight off the blues–the ability to be alone without having to feel lonely. It’s a difficult battle up ice-covered flights of steel stairs, but it can be done. Only after you’ve got the internal demons beat down to manageable level can you hope to push back.

Want to know what works best for me in conversation? You care about other people, right? Then focus on them, not judgmentally, but with an eye toward figuring out what makes them tick. Some will be seemingly transparent, others will be very challenging.

If you are anything like me, you’ve already become a good listener by necessity. (If you’re not talking, you must be listening, right?) Start listening with an ear toward understanding other people and not worrying about what they think of you. In group social settings, don’t feel like you have to be part of the conversation; people might notice you’re quiet, but it’s unlikely someone is going to beat you up because of it–use this time to think and analyze what people are saying.

You’ve been here at SDMB awhile, so you’re probably familiar with the concepts of informal logic; many people fail miserably at it, while others have many interesting perspectives. Use this to your advantage and look at everything like a MPSIMS. Eventually you find yourself asking questions when people make illogical statements, offering your own ideas, and making off-the-cuff jokes and comments. (Use humor if you can, my personal favorite is the sarcastic side-comment…)

As the few people here who’ve met me will attest to, I’m still a generally quiet person IRL. And I’m fine with that for now, because I know how much improvement I’ve made. But I am still a guy, and we all know that guys don’t take “baby steps”. :rolleyes: You are at war, my friend, and while wars often have decisive battles, it usually takes many small victories to position yourself for ultimate victory. Yes, that’s much better.

35

Hmm… didn’t mean to kill off your thread, MSK. You know, it’s posts like that last one with no response that make me wonder if I have a clue.

If not, can anyone tell me where to buy one?

36

Oh my god… you are SUCH an asshole!

Maybe you would like to start a thread telling all the dopers who require meds for depression etc that they are wrong.

Jesus, you are a jerk.

37

Sorry, folks, and Mr. Blue92, this thread isn’t dead.

I have a situation and really haven’t been able to reply as I would like.

It seems my mother may be throwing me out, as of Wednesday May 9. I’m trying to talk to her about it, but things aren’t resolved yet. I’ll keep you updated.

Kellibelli, if you see this, please email me. Thanks

38

Astro, I really liked your reply. That’s one of the best I have read yet. There are many other good ones here too.

I am at a loss for words, momentarily. All I can say is thank you very much for your concern, encouragement, and empathy.

I will try to keep you updated, as I am able.

39

Disclaimer: I am not a doctor. What I’m telling you is coming from the mind of someone studying Ab Psych this term. Plus bundles of experience with personality disorders and such.

"1: A goal - make it a realistic baby step that you can build on and no, this does not include nightclubbing.".

I was thinking about this thread last night and suddenly it comes to me:

“Why is MSK trying to tackle a problem by taking it on all at once?”

Back when I was dealing with depression (and related things), I made it through by dealing with things one bit at a time. Not even one day at a time. Every night I would lay in bed and think of all the things I’d done wrong and all the things I did right. And I’d do little things to try and change my life.

My suggestion to you is to take APD on in small bits. Don’t try just doing it all at once, as you did with the night club. Heck, I’d probably have a depressive episode/anxiety attack in a night club. I don’t do many parties for this very reason. Try just existing with other people. Take a very small chance. Yeah, it may backfire. But what’s, realistically, the worst that can happen if it does? Someone’ll crack a joke. Oh well:)

"2: You’re got to care a little bit less about what people (esp strangers) think about you as this is the yawning pit that swallows you up most of the time."

This is one key thing astro mentioned, but it’s a bit misleading, IMO. From my Ab Psych book: “AVOIDANT PERSONALITY DISORDER: A personality disorder in which an individual is consistently uncomfortable and restrained in social situations, overwhelmed by feelings of inadequacy, and extremely sensitive to negative evaluation.” So one of the keys of APD is that MSK cares (too much, from some perspectives) how others think of him. As such, I for one would think MSK had basically conquered a substantial part of APD if he didn’t care as much about how others thought of him. And btw, there IS a personality disorder where one of the symptoms is that you truly don’t care how others perceive you. So it’s a double-edged sword.

Been there. Done that. And I was kidding myself when I said I didn’t care. The key isn’t to stop caring so much, exactly. The key is . . . to care in such a way that it doesn’t continue to make up such a large part of your life.

<Drugs are one solution in this scenario and cognitive training is another.>

Confession time, so to speak. The way I initially got past dysthemia was to get Zoloft. Then I escaped from high school (graduated, escaped, same effect, really:)). And suddenly I wasn’t around jackasses all the time and shocker I wasn’t as afraid of people. Yeah, I still get episodes. That’ll happen for a while. That’s part of the disease. I haven’t beaten it yet, I’m just going in small steps. And truth be told, I’d rather be safe and slow than go in big strides and risk having a relapse. Am I still too careful around people? Undoubtedly. But small steps is the thing, MSK. Go at a pace that feels comfortable. Maybe go a little too fast to see if you can.

<In your situation I would suggest standing in front of the mirror and saying 100 times in an loudish, affirmative and confident voice. “Hi I’m MSK and I’d like to be your friend but I really don’t care what the hell you think about me.”>

Um . . . not to be disrespectful, astro, but . . . how to best say this. In my experience with APD and other such/related personality disorders, this is going to do one or more of a few things:

1: MSK says that to the mirror. Then he goes and says it to someone who isn’t a mirror and they laugh.

  1. MSK says that to a mirror. Then he goes and sees someone else and starts thinking lots about what the other person thinks.

  2. MSK gets really, really tired of saying it and gives up. More feeling of failure and social ineptness.

  3. MSK gets energy from this and it works.

I may well be wrong. I hope I am. I don’t know MSK well enough to give my personal opinion on how this will specifically affect him, but I will say that this would not work well with the average APD person.

There are over 6 billion people in the world, MSK. Very few of us will ever meet personally more than ten thousand. So if you lose out with 90 percent of them, that’s a statistically insignificant number of people. Think about it this way: Where I went to school there were 300 students, max. Of those, I’d say half did something to me that was not nice at one point. Severity differed, but whatever. 150 out of over 6 billion is like coughing into a lake. You might make a ripple if you coughed up phlegm. But a couple of people don’t like you? Feh. Go find someone else. Have a dopefest or go to one:)

40

Astro! Nice! But sweetie, anger will only take you so far, and is only good in small amounts. You might want to develop a distaste for your predicament instead. :slight_smile: Why? It’s not quite as brutal, and has lesser side effects when used for a long time. The mirror thing is a good idea though. Just tweek it so it works better for you.

Alonist—If I’m wrong please tell me. I believe the feelings behind what you were saying were in the right place, but it WAS a little mean…sniffle

MSK-you know I love you, right? Okay then. I often get yelled at for being too loud or talking too fast. And I do. But inside, in social situations, I’m so scared…I just want to crawl up into a hole and die…And that’s kinda what happened to me in college. I didn’t really allow myself to connect with anyone. The ones I did, I use humor a lot with them. And a good dose of listening to problems. People love it when they can complain about their meaningless lives. Take them up on it!

Or not. Just a suggestion. :slight_smile: I’ll be taking that Abnormal psych class next semester, so I can tell you more then. :wink: And listen to iampunha while making war with yourself.

((((((MSK))))))