Iampunha I respect your perspective but it appears MSK is ready to make a serious change in his life and most APD therapies encourage action based “doing it” methodologies. While mirror modeling and other behavioral and attitudinal training techniques to reinforce attitudes for action may seem to be an un-cool, clumsy tactics to you I been involved in sales and the use of personal motivation techniques for over 20 years. I know what works and modeling does work at what it is intended to do if the participant is serious and motivated which is the way I would describe MSK at this point in time.
The mirror modeling technique, or any other action based, behavior modeling technique isn’t intended to “work” in the sense that it’s even going to immediately solve even a small fraction of the issues deriving from way his brain and behavior are currently wired. The intent is to allow him to get him ramped up to take a small step and have a fall back position when it doesn’t solve his problem the first 100 times he tries on that attitude. The whole point here is training yourself slowly and painfully to think in a different way and realizing that we’re not talking about a day, a week, a month or even a year but a lifetime process of reinforcement training in order that he can live an engaged, productive and successful life.
MSK is bright enough to realize that this (or any other modeling technique he may choose) is not a cure but one tiny, small screwdriver in the toolkit of behaviors and attitudes he has to assemble and use to live a happier life. I don’t envy him in that he has a lot of heavy lifting in front of him to be able to get out from under the most oppressive parts of this problem he has but (according to his description) he is broke, without resources and he has to start someplace.
As an final note you are probably 100% correct in your final point that no amount of behavior modeling will work with the “average” APD person. MSK has to decide he is not going to be the “average” cloistered APD victim and take charge of his fate and he’s going to have to make that decision over and over again all day and every day for the rest of his life. The biggest problem that APD type people have is that they avoid confronting their problem and burrow deeply into a cocooned life. MSK has apparently had enough of this and it sounds like he’s moving in a positive direction and I wish him god speed by whatever hook or crook he determines is the best way to solve his problems so long as he doesn’t become a mime. Just by confronting the problem he’s halfway to solving it.
Astro, you are my hero! You seem to be very wise in this issue.
You mention several things I can/should/could do that will help me.
I have to say that you are right on, about most of them.
I feel I have done this and am continuing to do it. I am forcing myself to do “little things” that I normally didn’t or wouldn’t have done before.
I try to go for a walk in the park everyday, (as weather permits) just to get out of the house and get some fresh air. The park is one of the easiest places for me to attempt to strike up a conversation, although it happens rarely. If nothing more, I often say “Hi” and smile to the passers by. That’s a baby step right there.
I go out to the bar at my local TGIFridays, often, on karaoke night, drink pop, and simply hang out. Because it’s a restaurant bar, the crowd and atmosphere are much more reserved and laid back than your typical “hole-in-the-wall” bar. The usual “bar-pressure” isn’t there, or at least not so intense. When I go there, I simply go to observe, and try to have fun, all by myself. It’s not easy to have fun all the time, but it’s not so difficult either. Sometimes, I will take along something to read or do crosswords while I am there. I have even taken my sketchpad and pencils there before, and drawn. Not only does it give something to do, but someone may become curious as to what I am doing and strike up a conversation. If I can bring the people to me, instead of me going to them, that makes it all the easier and more positive for me. I would like to point out that, whether anyone talks to me or not, I do it because I enjoy it. The social aspect is just a “perk.”
I go to church regularly, at least twice a week. It’s more difficult for me to try to meet people there, because it seems more personal. They usually have a minute during the beginning of the services where you greet the people around you, say hi and shake their hand. I can do this very well, now, without hesitation, but it hasn’t gone beyond that point yet. For example, I cannott go up to John or Jane Doe after the service and say, “Hi my name is Alan, blah blah blah” I’m not good with small talking strangers, at least not yet. I feel that just being able to say hi and shake thier hand for a fleeting moment is a big step for me.
Well, this is so hard for me, but I am working on it. For example, going to the club with a petty 2 dollars and my newly shaved head was quite a feat. I mean come on, I look very good with hair, but I shaved my head! And I didn’t care what anyone thought. Yes, it still crossed my mind from time to time, but that is not what “sank my battleship” that night. Some people probably wouldn’t even leave the house with a shaved head! BTW, I didn’t shave my head as an extreme way to purvey the healthy “I don’t care attitude.” I simply did it because I felt like it and wanted to. Although afterwards, a positive side effect happened. I couldn’t help but think to myself, “I just shaved my head, and I really don’t care what anyone thinks. If I can do this, maybe I can do something braver and bigger!” (Such as talking to strangers.) A lot of people wouldn’t shave their head for anything! Maybe, I’m braver in some ways than I originally thought.
This, is the hardest part of all. This is where the AvPD throws everything it has at me, and then some. This is where my mind and soul become like a frontline during World War II.
I very recently, have invented a new method of thinking for myself which may possibly, be the key the breaking the cycle.
My new method of thinking is what I have deemed “The Three Steps.” This is what they are:
[li]#1: What is the feeling at the given moment that is bothering me?[/li][li]#2: What is the problem that is causing me to feel what I am feeling?[/li][li]#3: What is the source of the problem, that is causing the feelings?[/li]
With this new thought process, it breaks away the “blinders” and goes right to the root. It shows me exactly what I need to work on, or what I thought was a problem, that may actually not be a problem at all.
Using the night at the club incident as an example, and applying the 3 steps, I find some interesting things…
(A) The feeling: What was I feeling? alone, fearful, shy, embarassed, disappointed, discouraged
(B) The problem causing the feelings:
[li]alone = Most of the people there came in with a friend or group, I didn’t.[/li][li]fearful = Worried that someone would notice I was the only one there who was very obviously alone and they’d think I was a loser who had no friends.[/li][li]shy, embarrassed, disappointed = see the preceding/li The source of the problem causing the feelings: My needless worry about what others thought of me, my worry if someone did talk to me, I wouldn’t have money to buy them or myself a drink. etc
What it all boils down to is, that using the 3 steps, I have shown myself the most important thing I need to know. It isn’t the other people who are rejecting me, in that situation, I was actually rejecting myself. Rejecting myself basically cuts off all possibility of someone else liking me. Bad, MSK, bad!
You are SO VERY RIGHT when you said, " MSK has to decide he is not going to be the “average” cloistered APD victim and take charge of his fate and he’s going to have to make that decision over and over again all day and every day for the rest of his life."
I have to use my 3 steps, every moment, of everday, for the rest of my life, if I want to break the cycle. Once I learn that I am my own worst enemy, I can start working on being my own best friend.
Oh-ho-ho-ho!!! This is right on the money. There have been a few, very few, times in my life when I DID get so fired up over this crap that is controlling me, that I blew my top and did something. ONLY then, have I ever seen startling positive results, and startling positive opportunities open up. I’m not going to go into any examples, however. All that matters is that I know if I kick myself in the ass hard enough, and mentally take this AvPD and beat the living shit out of it inside, that is when I get what I want. And even more so, if I reach this point and fail, I still am proud that I at least made an effort.
I have a war to fight, a battle to face, an enemy to conquer. That enemy is the enemy within. I know for a fact that there is no quick cure. I am going to have to fight constantly, infinitely. Yes, I will fail. Yes, I will get hurt. Yes, I will get discouraged. Yes, I will have wounds & battle scars. And if I fail, so what? As the saying goes, “He fights then runs away lives to fight another day.” As long as I fight the battle, even just a little bit, it doesn’t matter if I win or lose, because, in the end, I will win the war. It’s only if I give up, and don’t fight at all, that the enemy will be victorious.
So, my dear, AvPD, you are going down, and you are going down hard, even if it takes me the rest of my life, and even if I die trying. One day I will tear your black cancerous heart from your body and feed it to you. As long as I can breathe, as long as blood pumps through my veins, I will fight you. I am sick and tired of being your prisoner and slave. 31 years you have been my master, but you will not be my master for 31 more! I will be free!
Oh, and one more thing, “Good… bad, I’m the guy with the gun!” BLAM!!!
Whenever I used to get down like that I listened to that famous speech by Winston Churchill. YOu know the one. We shal fight on the beachs, and the landing grounds,in the streets, and with growing confidence in the air. We shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight, and we shall never surrender. That gets my blood going. Plus, a little trick my granpa taught me was when you start getting pissed just repeat a small word over and over again in your mind, and concentrate on what is pissing you off. It used to push me over the edge, So much that I destroyed my dads garage one day. But I felt better. and I changed what I needed to change.
Hi MSK! I’m not very good at the analyzing part of your posts, but I think I can add some suggestions:
You mentioned that you go to TGI Fridays. Do they have that interactive trivia game there? If you can get in on one of those games, that is a great way to interact with other people sitting at the bar who are playing. (Or if they are watching). You don’t have deep meaningful conversations with these people, but if you go on a regular basis, you’ll see the same people over and over and would feel more comfortable over time speaking with them.
If you like darts or pool, you can always ask someone who is playing if you can get in on the game. Especially with darts, people don’t mind others joining in. Again, you don’t have meaningful conversations, but can have some laughs and small talk. (Just don’t take the game too seriously. If you’re bad, you won’t have fun and if you’re good you may make your new friends mad.)
Also, if you go to the same place often, try to make friends (acquaintences) with the bartender. If the bartender is friendly with you, the other regulars will be friendly too. It’s some kind of law or something.
Finally, I couldn’t find your answer as to why you have been unemployed for so long. I’m not being judgemental, but I just wonder if it is affecting your confidence level. And work really is a good place to work on your social skills! If you don’t have that regular contact with people, I think it hurts you. Good luck!
I was watching a movie called what about Bob, a comedy. He was all about babysteps. I have Panic Disorder with Agorophobia and every time i try using baby steps i wuss out. Which is exactly what he did when he went to that party. I think he has developed alot of control over this disorder but i dont think with an extreme chemical imbalance in his Brain its going to be that easy. I take Xanax to help myself with my panic attacks. That way i have some control over myself and then i tackle my overwhelming anxiety. Whenever i let my guard down a little bit and dont fight my enxiety i fall into a slump and i have to be in a very comfortable environment to control my anxiety and panic disorder. I constantly fight it and push myself to stay on top. What i am trying to say is maybe your giving into it a little bit too much. I know thats a terrable thing to say but its the truth man. I recognize that it has control over me and then i find all the power i have to combat it and i use that. It is very hard sometimes but i do it. Man if your always going to give in youll never beat it you just need to realize whats really happening around you and try to grasp reality. Be aggressive always.
Alonist - Your lack of knowledge is no excuse for being a dick.
MSK - APD is a real condition that can be treated with medications, the most common being Paxil. Let me ask you, if you were diabetic, how would you buy your insulin? If you had a heart conditions, how would you pay for treatment? Just because your condition is not physically seen does not mean that it doesn’t need medical attention.
I hope that I don’t come off as being cold or that I don’t understand, I do. I see clients on a daily basis who are in the same boat as you, or worse. Forgive me for taking off the kid gloves, but I do believe that sometimes we need a kick in the ass as incentive to look at things with more optimism and gain courage to change the results. I don’t know much about you, including your age, so I may be talking out my ass with some of this, but what the hell.
Why are you not working? I understand that your condition prevents you from holding down full-time employment, especially in a busy work environment or dealing with the public - AT THIS TIME. However, there are many jobs that you can get where you can work alone. Janitorial, gardening, librarian, stocker, and many other possibilities, most don’t required college education or experience.
As was already mentioned, have you checked with the local college to apply for assistance? There are a lot of courses that you can take through home study or correspondence.
Have you actually spoken with Social Security to see what you need to do to apply for medicaid or SSI? Have you asked them for information or referrals for medical assistance in order to obtain medical evidence for a claim through their office?
Why is your mother threatening to kick you out of her house? If not financially, are you contributing to the household duties?
Again, I am not asking these things to be mean, but it really isn’t a Catch 22. There are solutions to your problem if you are willing to put out the effort. Things don’t happen overnight, but they won’t happen at all if you don’t help yourself. It sounds as if you don’t have friends or family there to pull you up, so you basically have only two choices. First and foremost, you find a job you can handle in your condition (yes, they ARE out there), get medical insurance through your company or you save enough to see a physician and obtain the medical treatment you need, become more independent and in control, and through the combination of treatment, responsibility, and being exposed to others, you will improve, or you can continue to make excuses of why you can’t work or attend school or obtain medical treatment, and I can assure you that things will never get any better. If you chose the first route and it doesn’t work, you are still in a better situation because now you can apply for unemployability and have the medical records needed to apply for SSI and Medicaid.
