Fuck!
Twist OF fate.
Blame my girlfriend, I got three hours sleep last night.
I’ll post again when I’m not stupid.
Sorry all.
Look, proving bias by Google in this manner is completely meaningless. Apart from anything else, most of the hits will have the search terms in dissociated sentences, such that anything past the first few pages of results are increasingly unrelated; there’s stories in there about condemnation of Israelis being sacked, Israel condemning the UN bombing, etc. etc. Secondly, unlike “Israel” there’s no obvious equivalent search term for the palestinian articles, so of course for any individual search there will be fewer hits. Thirdly, “most hits” deal with UN condemning Israel? Really? You read most of 60-odd thousand hits? Finally, Google won’t even serve you the hits past 1,000, so it’s impossible to even check to see what they are.
Google is a marvellous thing, but this is not one of its uses.
Because your notions (as has been pointed out by GaWd and FinnAgain) of what Israel is allowed to do in defending themselves against terrorism seem to be holding Israel to a different standard.
They get their aid reduced if they do anything you don’t like. If the terrorists do anything they do that you don’t like, nothing happens.
The terrorists strike at civilians on purpose. No consequence. If Israel strikes back at the terrorists, but hits some uninvolved civilians by accident, they get punished.
You really don’t see how this is one-sided? Yes, I know tax dollars don’t go to the terrorists. But when other countries (like the Dutch) contribute to the PA and try to get an infrastructure up and running, fucking Arafat steals it. Again, no consequence, at least in your plan.
I guess the bottom line is this: You cannot change a situation that is caused or exacerbated by both sides by punishing only one side. That was the point of my bullying analogy earlier. If Johnny is getting his lunch money stolen every day, or beaten up, punishing Johnny for having a baseball bat in his locker is not going to improve the situation. If you don’t do anything about the bullying, trying to stop the bullied from acting does no good and some harm.
Regards,
Shodan
Shodan, the Palestinians are already punished by the use of US-supplied weapons. So it is only fair.
I think we should just drop a couple of divisions of the U.S. Army in Palestine, tell them to find all the bombs and make sure nobody starts any trouble. This will probably slow down the terrorist attacks on Israel, and the Israelis will be less likely to fire AT weapons at civilians if there’s a chance they might accidentally take out a GI or three and get us mad at them too.
Dead Badger Thanks, I did a bit of research on google algorithms after your comment and you are indeed correct.
I retract my statement but will be searching for specific text and numbers of UN resolutions.
I know this was meant for shodan (puts me in mind of System Shock…) I’d still like to answer.
The idea that the Palestinians are being ‘punished’ is just flat out wrong.
They have declared a war of genocide on Israel and Israel is fighting back.
This is no more ‘punishment’ then the Battle of the Bulge was an attempt to ‘punish’ Rommel.
Personally I’d be more willing to see US troops in Israel than UN troops, at least the US generally supports Israel.
The problem of course lies in the fact that it would require the US to occupy a third Arab/Muslim country.
(not to mention the fact that unless a sovereign nation invites you in, it’s an invasion, and I’d rather not see the US invade Israel any time soon)
I would also point out that the manpower and intel needed for an operation like that would be mind-blowing, especially when PA security forces are, more often than not, in league with the terrorists…
I mean… honestly… we can’t even find out what the hell is going on in Iraq, and we freakin’ OWN that country now.
P.S. I notice you say that US troops would “probably slow down the terrorist attacks on Israel,” You do realize that this means you’d want Israel to not defend itself on the supposition that terrorism would be lessened and not even eliminated?
Given that you accused me of implicitly supporting the Palestinian terror machine, I think we’ve finally found something we can agree on, you lunatic.
Shodan, I’ll change my plan: if the Dutch continue to give aid to the Palestinians, we’ll invade their country and make them stop. Happy now?
Daniel
Allow me to make this very clear.
You want to sanction Israel for the totally unavoidable collateral damage that is part of their effort to stop terrorists.
Thus, you will not allow them the ability that any other sovereign nation has.
Thus, you implicitly support the Palestinian Terror Machine.
Sorry, not crazy at all.
Collateral damage is avoidable. Most civilised nations do take steps to avoid collateral damage.
Your argument is bullshit, and from what I’ve read of your posts, you’re fucking crazy.
Unavoidable? Unavoidable?! I’m sorry, but I absolutely and totally disagree. The “collateral damage”, as you so tidily put it, is perfectly avoidable. All you have to do to avoid it is not fire high-explosive tank shells and missiles into packed crowds. How bloody hard can that be? If you need to disperse a crowd, use tear-gas, not shrapnel. The fact that Israel has caused so much loss of innocent life, time and time and time again, just shows what utter disregard they have for the bystanders. How many times does this sort of murderous shit have to happen before people will admit that Israel is doing it intentionally? If they aren’t doing it intentionally, then they’ve certainly killed enough people “by accident” to make the difference between them and the terrorists purely academic.
“Totally unavoidable collateral damage”, my ass. that’s got to be one of the most dishonest statements I’ve seen on these boards in a long while, and if you actually believe it, then I’m afraid you really have gone off the deep end.
Collateral damage is avoidable?
Please cite one single modern war, ever, where it was completely avoided.
Just in case you’re trying to weasel out of this, modern wars only. As in, with ordinance and such. Not tribes runnin’ around with spears.
Moreover, cite one war where the enemy purposefully put its bases in residential areas and attacked civilian targets exclusively and there was no collateral damage.
My argument is quite tight.
And when people start insulting me rather than even attempting to talk facts, I generally know I’ve already won.
Do you think that the innocent deaths were unavoidable in the case of this demonstration? How about when firing air-to-surface missiles at cars on crowded streets?
Has there been international analysis of this?
Because, it is a recorded fact that the Palestinians pay their children to act as soldiers in the war.
In the southern Gaza Strip, an area of soft sand dunes, Palestinians pay children NIS 20 to 25 ($4.50 to $5) a day to dig tunnels, from their side, under the Israeli lines, to Egypt. Usually it takes three months to complete a tunnel, a senior officer said.
[Israel Defense Forces soldiers on Monday caught a 10-year-old Palestinian boy trying to get a large bomb through a roadblock in the West Bank city of Nablus.
Border Police sappers managed to safely detonate the device. The boy was reportedly with a group of school children.](http://backspin.typepad.com/backspin/2004/03/using_children_.html )
Nothing that deserves being shot in the head by snipers.
do you value Palestinian life as much as Israeli life?
Perhaps, Finn, in your bizarro world, calling someone a supporter of terrorists doesn’t count as an insult. YOu may believe you’ve already won, but that’s either a sign of hopelessly ideological insanity, or blatant dishonesty.
I can’t figure out which it is: do you really believe Palestinians are as demonic as you keep suggesting, or are you disingenuously arguing such in hopes that you can form enough of a smokescreen to hide the Israeli government’s atrocities?
I don’t care anymore. I droped out of an earlier discussion because of Olentzero’s cavalier attitude toward the murders of Israeli civilians; I’ll have no more to do with you because of your despicable attitude toward the massacres of Palestinian civilians.
Daniel
That is bullshit.
You tell me how they are to avoid collateral damage while still striking back at Hamas when Hamas puts its bases in residential areas?
Firing into packed crowds has nothing to do with that, and you know it.
Why?
During war if there is a hostile crowd you can certainly blow them to pieces.
“innocent” my ass.
Poor innocent genocidal monsters, can’t even slaughter all the Jews in peace ~sniffles~
Again
BULLSHIT.
The fact that it has happened time and again shows that Hamas are cowards who put their bases in tightly packed residential areas in order to draw the ire of leftist-apologists-of-terror, like yourself.
Their strategy works quite well with y’all.
Blow up some Israeli school children, run back and hide in the Palestinian slums, wait for the Israeli response, reap the tide of public opinion.
YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT.
What the difference between targeting civilians and accidentally hitting them?
Motive!!!
Besides.
If you claim is true, why hasn’t Israel destroyed all the Palestinians with conventional arms by now?
They could’ve fire bombed them into oblivion long ago.
Again, I’m not insane, you’re resorting to ad hominem attacks.
Let me put this quite clearly
In the case of this demonstration?
I have yet to see any evidence that this was a peaceful protest, heading into a warzone, in order to disrupt Israeli operations, peacefully.
Remember the Jenin ”massacre”?
The standard Israeli claim is that they are killed in bomb-making accidents. The small holes in the back of their heads and large exit wounds removing half of their faces contradict this. If you are claiming that they were killed while building tunnels or carrying explosives you are making claims that not even the Israelis are making, FinnAgain. Indeed, even Israeli ministers are questioning the current actions.
(I hereby utterly condemn the targetting of civilians by Hamas, Al Asqa, Islamic Jihad etc. etc. yadda yadda).