My best friend asked me if she is ugly. How should I have answered? (long)

Here’s how it is:

I have a friend I am going to call Helen. Helen is probably my best friend: she is bright and funny and has a wonderfully wicked sense of humor that meshes nicely with mine. She’s perhaps ten years older than me, and long married, and the loving owner of a pair of dogs I’d probably like if I weren’t so phobic. She consistently stands by me in my darkest hours; I can say without irony that she is full of the milk of human kindness. Her soul is very beautiful.

Her body is not.

Really, there is no way around the truth. Even as someone who loves her I can’t honestly say she is anywhere near attractive. Her appearance is not conducive to thoughts of romance, and I sometimes notice men physically distancing themselves from her when we’re together; and I’ve overheard female friends commenting cattily on her appearance.

Now I love her no less because of this. As I said, she’s my best friend. If Helen were as lovely as her namesake is reputed to have been, she’d still be on my do-not-try-to-fuck list, because her husband is also a friend of mine, and, anyway, I value true friends more than fuckbuddies anywhistle, because the latter are easy to come by but the former are as rare as iridium. Add to that the fact that I value being polite in the 4D world, and you can see why I never, ever, ever comment on her physical appearance.

Till today.

Today Helen and I were at a cafe we sometimes meet for cake, coffee, and giggles. Our meal was free, as the manager of this cafe is fond of me and gives me free stuff; the last time Helen & I were there, I got the manager’s phone number, and this afternoon she came over to invite me to invite her to a play this weekend. Seeing this, Helen remarked on my success with women. I told her that I’m not half as studly as she thinks and not a quarter as studly as I might wish; “I spend more weekend hours on the internet than in women’s beds,” I assured her.

Laughing, Helen called me a liar. From there she segued into asking my advice. Her marriage is not entirely happy, and she sometimes speculates about straying. Last night was a speculative night; she is in a support group and has a crush on one of her fellow members, whom I will call Paris. “You’re not shy, Skald,” she said to me. “What do I do to make him notice me?”

“Don’t do anything,” I replied. “You have a husband who loves me.”

“I have a husband who never notices me,” she corrected. “Listen – if I ask you a question will you tell me the truth?”

“Maybe,” I said. “Of course, I AM an evil sumbitch, so you never know.” (I joke about conquering the Earth in the real world too.)

“Am I too ugly for Paris to ever notice me?” she asked. “No, forget that. Am I ugly, period?”

I froze. The only truthful answer was Yes. But calling someone ugly, face to face, is not something I’ve done since I was a child teasing my sisters; and as I’ve been the target of a few vicious insults in my time, I know how painful criticism can be, even – maybe even especially – if it’s truthful. So I bullshitted, not terribly successful; I tried to avoid answering the question. She asked the first question again, modifying it: “If I lost more weight, do you think Paris would like me?” Even that I found hard to imagine, but I said, “Sure. There’s a beautiful person inside you.”

We left the cafe laughing. But I could tell she was in pain, and I knew I’d done the hurting.

What should I have done?

Look, she has, from your accounts, working vision and an IQ above 85. She is married, and has friends. She must, then, understand how things carnal must operate. She even is attracted to superficially attractive people, so she gets it. I don’t understand she would ask a platonic friend that sort of question.

I think you should have just assured her that she is beautiful, and left it at that even if she kept nagging you to be honest. The world is and always will be all too quick to point out to her that she is not good-looking, but as her best friend, especially if, as you say, she is always there for you and so kind, I feel that you can do nothing but lie about this. Yeah, yeah, “honesty is the best policy” and all that, but when it comes to best friends and insecurities, being supportive is the best, I think.

It probably didn’t help that earlier in the conversation I had said “It’s often better to be kind than truthful, as I’m a hell of a lot surer of what is kind than what is true.”

Basically I’m wondering if there was any non-hurtful way to answer the query.

“There’s a beautiful person inside you” was kind, but it wasn’t what your friend wanted to hear; people want to know they’re beautiful on the outside. Plus, it implies that there’s a beautiful person inside her because she’s eaten recently one, or must have.

I had a professor in undergrad, the head of my anthropology department, who told me something once that I wasn’t sure I bought at the time but that stuck with me. He wasn’t a touchy-feely guy, either, he was one of those hard-as-nails Vietnam vet professors, but he had a lot of iinsight onto people. He said if you look for it, you can find something attractive in some way about nearly anybody, even if it’s just something about the way they carry themselves. You have to be willing to look for it, though. Trying to scope out whatever your friend’s quality is, paired along with some constructive criticism, might do a lot of good.

“There’s a beautiful person inside you” was kind, but it wasn’t what your friend wanted to hear; people want to know they’re beautiful on the outside. Plus, it implies that there’s a beautiful person inside her because she’s eaten recently eaten one, or must have.

I had a professor in undergrad, the head of my anthropology department, who told me something once that I wasn’t sure I bought at the time but that stuck with me. He wasn’t a touchy-feely guy, either, he was one of those hard-as-nails Vietnam vet professors, but he had a lot of iinsight onto people. He said if you look for it, you can find something attractive in some way about nearly anybody, even if it’s just something about the way they carry themselves. You have to be willing to look for it, though. Trying to scope out whatever your friend’s quality is, paired along with some constructive criticism, might do a lot of good.

You got caught off guard, so be ready for this question when it comes up again. She did not ask if she was beautiful, she asked if she is too ugly. Of course not. People who ask if they are too ugly, too fat, already know what the world thinks. They are looking for support from their friends. The bigger problem seems to be staying friends with two people who’s marriage is in great trouble.

Argh. Could a passing mod delete my first post, and this one? Gracias -

I think you did the best you could, given the circumstances. I probably would have done the same. You didn’t say she was ugly (and really, very very very very few people in this world are truly ugly), you indicated she had inner beauty (albeit in a round about way).

Perhaps you could send her a more considered email, saying that you’d been thinking about the conversation and feeling bad that what you said maybe came across the wrong way. You could emphasise her good points and point out that confidence and self-acceptance are just as important as physical beauty, and maybe comment that you’re concerned she doesn’t have those in abundance right now, and maybe that’s what she should be concentrating on.

Just a thought!

blinkblinkblink I think she has more serious problems in her life than attractiveness.

I think that it was an unfair question, rather like ‘do I look fat in this?’
When preceded by ‘will you tell me the truth’, it often means ‘I’m unhappy and I want you to lie to me’ (as in ‘is my husband having an affair?’)

Here are some thoughts:

  • society puts instant shallow value on beauty in women, especially models
  • being beautiful is not a guarantee of a happy marriage
  • having an affair is not the answer to an unhappy marriage
  • having qualities such as humour, intelligence, kindness and loyalty is both far more important than beauty, and more use in a loving relationship

:smiley: I’ll say!

Alice and Pravnik- wonderfully put!

BEE: (It’s the GENIE) Enough about you, Casanova. Talk about her! She’s smart, fun, the hair, the eyes. Anything–pick a feature!
ALADDIN: Um, Princess Jasmine? You’re very…
BEE: Wonderful, glorious, magnificent, punctual!
ALADDIN: Punctual!
JASMINE: Punctual?

Seriously, pick a feature. I agree that even the really ugly ones have something beautiful - their eyes, or hands or earlobes. She knows she’s fat. She knows she’s not as attractive as she’d like to be. She may not know that she has a great neck.

I’m an overweight, not-so-attractive woman myself, but I have spectacular eyes, great hair and teeny-tiny delicate hands and feet. I look rather like a paleolithic Earth “Goddess” figurines with those little bitty peg feet and just the barest suggestion of hands. I’ll never forget the friend who pointed that out, and said she loved to watch me dance because the lightweight lilt of my hands was such a beautiful contrast to the earthly solidity of my body.

I’m no idiot. I know “earthly solidity” is a nice euphamism for “that extra 100 pounds of junk in your trunk.” But for once, it didn’t matter. All night, I looked through her eyes and I thought my hands were beautiful, and so they were.

Yeah, yeah, I know. It was supposed to be “a husband who loves you.”

Am we Rhymers not famous for our typos?

Personally, I have a no BS policy when people ask my opinion directly regardless of whether it’s a stranger or a significant other. Of course, I’d never go out of my way to suggest that someone is ‘ugly’ when not provoked, but I am always honest when asked directly. As a result, some people think I’m an asshole while others admire my no BS approach and respect my honest opinions. For certain, I am not very suave when talking to women, but at least I present myself the way I really am without any façade.

‘Helen’ likely senses the truth from you as it is, but it would have probably made her feel worse if you had stated that you agreed that she was ugly. To share my no BS policy may not the best for approach for you; it depends upon your priorities.

My answer would have been something like:

“First of all, I really hope you consider working things out with your husband. To answer your question: I do not find you attractive, but, of course, I can only speak for myself. I guarantee that there are other men who find you attractive. I once was in a smut shop and saw a magazine titled 80 Year Old Asses…or something like that. In the pure physical sense, we are all beautiful in the eyes of some people. I think you really must emphasize your beautiful personality and character when and if you seek other men for romance. If you try to lose weight, then do it for your own health more than anything else. Perhaps, you should aim for a body mass index under 30 or under 25. Don’t worry about your looks, Hun; you can nab a new beau if you put yourself on the market for one”

I’m trying to think how I would have answered that. I had a boss once who was one of the funniest people I had ever met, and we got along fantastically. He was also one of the ugliest people I have known, but that didn’t matter at all once you got to know his personality. If he had ever asked me point blank if he was ugly, I would have said, “No.” in a rather uncomfortable way, and changed the subject as quickly as possible. I would not have hurt him by telling him he is ugly, because there is no good to be had from that.

But he would have never asked, because he knows what he looks like. I’m not sure what game Helen was playing, asking you that. She also knows what she looks like.

I wouldn’t be so hard on Helen. It might look like a mind game to some for her to be asking that, but I’d guess that with the stress in her marraige and whatever else, she just had a moment of insecurity and wanted to talk it out with her best friend. That’s what best friends are for.

I like ugly girls. Send her my way.

But seriously, eye is in the beauty of the beholder, and angels are as androgyne.

I like character…that gives me lust and love in fervent quantitties.

devilsknew just said it. I’m no beauty now, but i wasn’t bad when I was younger. My best friend at the time was vain and shallow. I was not his type, nor was he mine. One evening we were at a party. Someone asked me to dance, and afterwards my friend pulled me aside to tell me not to set my heart on the man who’d danced with me because “Men will sleep with a fat woman or an ugly woman but not both in the same package.” :eek:
At the time, I was running 3 miles a day, and had not an ounce of fat. He perferred flat chested girls so to him, I was “fat.”
You could have honestly told her that you don’t see her in sexual terms, so you can’t answer the question objectively. To you she is beautiful, because you know her soul.

I think you provided both a very nice, and honest answer. Will the honesty part be appreciated? Depends on the friend, but I think wether or not she appreciates her answer will speak for how much trust there is between you two. In my book, you don’t set someone up with a question that can make or break a relationship. If she decides to drop you out of her life for it, then she’s betraying your trust in my opinion. And trust is an important cornerstone to any important relationship.

…says the guy with a single handful of friends.