It’s not because 21 year olds are immature. It’s just that the very nature of that stage of life is that you are changing and growing a lot, and most of the time people that age end up growing in ways that make them incompatible with whoever they’re dating at the time. I’m only 24, and I like to think I’m pretty mature 
but I’ve definitely had changes in my perspective on lief over the last few years that ended up changing my ideas about relationships and what kind of man I want to be with.
I would strongly recommend accepting that this situation wasn’t meant to be, at least not at this stage of your lives, and trying to find someone you are compatible with where you don’t have to struggle to convince her that she loves you and you belong together. It doesn’t have to be that hard.
Well, as someone who’s been in a similar position of that girlfriend, I think you should back off for a while and just let both parties calm down a bit.
I was dating this guy who basically approached me one day and said: “I like you a lot. Can we go out?”
At first, I was 
(and maybe that was the first sign that this relationship wasn’t going to go well) because I didn’t really know this guy before - I just would happen to watch him play video games with his friends and give the group a Generic Polite Smile.
From the beginning the whole deal was very unbalanced. He liked me a lot. He liked me a whole lot. I was…mostly meh. I grew up having a very tiny confort zone and an intense paranoia of other people (and that’s a long story in and of itself), so I was Not Happy when he would try to get intimate with me when we were talking.
Still, I felt that I should give him a fair chance despite my misgivings, so I stuck it out and struck this compromise where I would conceed to some of his desires, but in turn he was supposed to talk to me and tell me more about himself.
I probably could have had him wrapped around my little pinky: this guy was so apparently starved for attention that even the slightest hint of positive feedback he’d jump all over it. But I could never disarm myself of the alarm bells that were going off in my head, nor of the fear that he was only being so nice because he hadn’t gotten what he wanted yet.
I guess he was gentlemanly enough to not try anything stupid, but I could never get past my discomfort when he’d get into my personal space. Plus he never seemed to really listen to what I was saying. And, as he did not own a car, I was always the one who ended up going over to his place, and he didn’t seem interested in any of the traditional dating activities. We also didn’t really seem to have that much in common. On top of that, I felt annoyed whenever he’d call me on the phone, because I felt massively inconvenienced to have to talk with him for an hour. He came off as this incredibly needy person, and instead of being flattered I was more put off. I felt like I was being emotionally blackmailed all the time: “I like you! I like you so much! Why can’t you feel the same about me?”
Well, Thanksgiving weekend I went home and talked it over with some longtime friends. I explained my misgivings, one of which was that I felt bad that I wasn’t returning the feelings of the guy I was dating. I tried being as objective as I could about this guy, but I think both of them picked up on the fact that I was not happy about the relationship, and they advised me that it was better to break it off, as soon and as cleanly as possible, before either of us did something we regretted.
So I did. The guy was shocked and very unhappy that I was doing so, because in his mind we were finally getting somewhere and I was starting to have good feelings about him. He felt betrayed that I was more willing to believe my friends than getting my information straight from him. I tried to explain to him that it wasn’t just about him–it was about me, too, and I felt that it wouldn’t be fair to him to continue the relationship.
Eventually he left in a huff and I thought that would the end of it.
The next day he called me and wanted to talk about it. I humored him for a while, until it was clear that his actual motive was that he wanted to get back together. I made it very clear to him that no, I was not going to date him again, and if he wanted to keep me as a friend he would stop trying to rekindle a relationship that wasn’t really all there in the first place. Finally, when it became clear that I wasn’t getting through to him, I hung up.
I basically ignored him until somewhere around January, when I felt it was safe to give him a Generic Polite Smile and greeted him with a very neutral “hello”, because we go to the same school and I felt it to be childish and dumb to pretend that I didn’t see him every time we crossed paths. That very evening, he called me AGAIN trying to reopen the discussion about why the relationship didn’t work, and eventually I hung up on him again. To make sure he had the last word, he sent me a very petty-sounding text message that ran along the lines of “we have nothing more to say to each other”.
We haven’t spoken since.
That is some creepy shit right there.
RED ALERT WHOOP WHOOP!
She has told you NO. And yet you are going to “still work with her”. Please tell her from me–run, sister, run. She has told you her feelings have changed. Cope with that. And she is doing no favors in “putting a plan together.”
She needs to read The Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker–a suggestion made in another thread here not long ago. I am reading it now and highly recommend it. It’s about “stranger danger” but it can also apply to relationships. She is UNCOMFORTABLE with some stuff you’ve said/done/convinced/persuaded her to do. A decent guy (sorry, but it has to be said) would BACK OFF and respect her need for boundaries and space.
Even without the computer file, this scenario says Get Out to me–the computer file just provide concrete proof that my instinct is correct. And btw, showering together IS sexual–just like sharing a romantic dinner is sexual. There’s nothing wrong with either one-both are fun and can enhance a relationship, but to refuse to see her POV on something so obvious as that tells me that you do indeed have control and boundary issues. Back off–better yet, she keeps walking away.
Dude…you come here telling us you’re a petty thief. You’re a bad influence on her and she lucked out that she realized it before she fucked up her life. Speaking of lives…get one. You’re entirely too comfortable with the criminal mindset for me to give a fuck about you and your love life problems. You deserved to get dumped.
You know how to get what you want out of this? Chloroform and manacles.
There are only two choices here: You’re a domineering creep who wants to control a weaker person, or you’re together enough to move on, as she has expressly said she wants you to do. If you came here hoping we’d recommend a third path, one where you enjoy the benefits of extreme creepiness without the accompanying social stigma, there isn’t one.
You don’t keep human body parts in a freezer, do you?
When a person says they want to break up with you, you have to let them break up with you. It’s not good for them and it’s not good for you to keep hanging on. Begging and pleading makes you pathetic and them miserable. If she doesn’t like herself when she’s with you, why would you want her to be with you?
This is what I would have said from the very first post. Plenty of women I know freaked out in their first long-term relationships, even the ones in their 20s (and yeah, 21 is still very young, despite everyone’s granny having three kids by that age).
After laughing at horrible romantic comedies and pathetic girlfriends promising themselves they’d never be ‘like that,’ they found after a few months that they’d become clichés, whether the jealous girlfriend or the fawning adorer who lets her boyfriend pull out because, you know, he ‘just hates condoms.’ I don’t know if it’s just the emotional turmoil or some very real biological reaction, but it’s quite scary and rational thought rarely makes an appearance.
(I couldn’t care less about the computer file. And while having that talk was a good idea, this is going to come up again. And again. As others have mentioned, it really is about her maturing as a person, which is tougher to do while attached to an SO.)
Wise words.
hmm, well, I guess it’s time for an update.
Okay, my ex-girlfriend and I didn’t get back together, nor have I been pressuring her to do so. We do both still have feelings for each other, and enjoy each other’s company, so we’ve begun to spend time together again, after a couple of weeks of staying physically apart, although keeping everything at a slower pace now. Only time will tell where things go. I think she’s actually happier not being committed to somebody (she was never big on the whole traditional boyfriend-girlfriend thing in the first place) so we may be able to pick up the relationship where we were, only without the labels attached.
We also made a list of rules for each other that we really wish the other person would not do, and I’ve been trying my hardest to stick to it.
Once, when I was nineteen, I went out with a guy who felt that he had the right to redefine me and my feelings to suit his agenda - the right to tell me that he knew what I was feeling, better than I did.
I dumped his sorry, manipulative, underhanded, dishonest ass.
Ya know, I read this entire thread for the first time just now and my first collective thought about it is not good. Your ex has done some introspection and found you not worthy. Yet you continue to push and to manipulate. You describe what you believe are her feelings, her attitude, her needs, her desires, yadda, yadda. But the thing is, this is your thread, your perspective and practically no one is commenting about your ex as they are commenting about you, and you’re not listening.
Then I decided to read through the two older threads you reference in this one; the electronic game-playing and the two friends you claim who went behind your back. Both offer some insight about you. In short, you still haven’t learned anything since that two year old thread about relationships.
I don’t believe the latest “get-together” is open and honest. You are still manipulating her and she doesn’t see it yet.
Her time away that precipitated this breakup was her time out introspection. I see nothing in this thread giving me the slightest hint you’ve done some soul searching about yourself now, or two years ago. You’re still the manipulative thief you were when you started this thread.
This is not going to end well. And with the end-of-the-year holidays fast approaching, emotions will be heightened. Nope, this is not going to end well. This is going to end badly. And you will probably remain clueless as to why.
Get a Livejournal or something if you’re not going to read and consider any of the well-reasoned replies.
Bottom line is she doesn’t want to be with you. The reason does not matter. Your feelings on it do not matter. Every poster’s thoughts in this thread do not matter. Accept this and get on with your life. I would take this opportunity to grow as an individual if I were you, because you are presenting yourself as an emotionally unhealthy person (her being 21 alludes to this as well). If you truly cared about her (which I kind of doubt) you would allow her time and space so she can find who she is as a person, since it’s apparent she has not figured it out yet and she cannot learn around you.
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I really want to know what the fuck it was you wanted her to do that went against her principles and that you continually asked her to do until she broke down and said yes. If you knew her for almost two years you know what she’s game for and what she’s not and asking repeatedly is really inconsiderate. Maybe she agreed to get you to STFU. I feel like the actual activities are important. I mean there is such a wide range of things you can ask someone to do. If my boyfriend asked me to do the dishes OR to sleep with some dude for meth money I would consider both to be against my morals but only one is a reasonable request
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Grow a pair and deal with someone finally saying no to you?
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I do feel bad for you unlike the rest of these guys. A Paul Bernardo needs his Karla Homolka and it sounds like you had a good one while it lasted.
I’m guessing it was anal.
You should get Ed Zotti to include that in the sticky about the subscriptions!
Steal a computer file. But it was okay, because she wanted it too, and he got her to understand that wanting it is just a short step away from wanting to steal it, and wanting to steal it is practically the same as doing it, so she was really already there. He just helped her to understand what was in her heart.
Sounds like.
Dude, she’s 21. Many, if not most, 21 year olds go through dramatic changes. Debating her and scoring points using the Harvard Rules won’t make her love you. There is a huge difference between me at 27 and me at 21. Let her go, wish her well, and cry into your beer. It will get better…