It seems the fact of the matter is Bob hasn’t let go of his ex and it’s clear he doesn’t want to. The fact that he put the money in a joint account shows that he’s not willing to open another account without her name on it simply because that is cutting her out of yet another part of his life and at this point in time he doesn’t want to do that.
Face the facts. He’s given her everything she wants, and is willing to give her even more. I’m sure that his feelings for you are true and honest, but they won’t equal what he feels for her. This has been going on for 4 years. That in itself states that he isn’t willing to let go. I could understand a year, maybe even two, but four is way out of line.
You have a serious problem here. Evidently one that is not going to go away any time soon, it may even be years. You should look at your options again and decide if you are willing to shoulder this for the rest of your life. I don’t think that once the kids are grown that he will change even then.
Dear Bob,
I don’t know you or your lady one whit. On these boards Spider Woman has a reputation as a kind and talented person. Please do not think that all of us are dumping on you just to make her feel better.
However harsh the assessments you are reading might seem, they are the product of reasonably intelligent minds. One of the greatest commitments all of us here at Straight Dope have, is to the truth. I think that I may speak for all of us in saying that our primary concern is for the happiness of both of you.
That said, please consider all that you have read in the most constructive light possible. It is how it was meant, and we all hope that it will be taken in a similar fashion.
I will add this one note. You are obviously a hard working man. Spidey has repeatedly made mention of you working multiple shifts. The money that you have is a direct result of your blood, sweat and tears. Do not feel selfish about restricting the use of that money to yourself alone. You earned it, you deserve it! It seems as though you love your children and I am confident that you will still spend money on them in appropriate ways. I can only hope that you will be the one to determine how it is spent.
Best wishes and please let us know what you think about all of this. I am confident in saying that all of us are willing to help with any guidance or advice that we may provide.
Chris
Thank you everyone. Bob’s kids are here for the day, so Bob will not get a chance to read this at least until after they have gone (we don’t want them to see this accidentally; we would rather they have as good an image of their mother as possible).
He has agreed to transfer the bulk of the money that is in his account, into my account for now. I will write him out a check, and he can set up a separate account, and until he does, the money will be safe in my account. This is such a relief to me. She got half his profit sharing when they divorced, which is legal and customary, but I don’t think she should be able to get her hands on the money that built up again afterwards.
Zenster, thank you for the time you took to write that letter to Bob. He is a good person, and works hard, and believes in the goodness of human nature. I think it is really difficult for him, sometimes, to have to think badly of the woman who is the mother of his children. He loves his children so much.
Spider Woman, I think you came close to hitting the nail on the head in your second post, where you said it’s kind of like an abusive relationship. The thing is if your description is accurate, it’s not just like an abusive relationship, it is one. This is typical of the kind of abuse that abusive women deal out. Unlike abused women, men who are treated this way, don’t recieve the sympathy women do, instead they are called “a big pussy” or told to grow a brain. What they need is help understanding that their ex’s behavior is wrong and that they need try and limit how and when their ex can contact them to only what is nessasary for the childrens needs. Also as his SO you have every right to go to his kids sporting events and she needs to be made to understand this.
All this sound so much like things I have gone through with my husband. Time and efort can sort things out.
Good luck and stay strong.
zenith
Thanks for the understanding words for Bob. He will be reading this thread, too (may have after I went to bed last night).
He dropped his kids off last night and she asked him why I came to their son’s volleyball game (the one she sat talked through). She went to her s.o.'s son’s basketball games, but keeps trying to intimidate Bob into asking me to stay home; she does this every time I go to an activity for one of the kids.
And yesterday while the kids were here, the volleyball player and I went to a local park so he could practice his serve. I think the more caring adults involved in the life of a child, the better off the child is.
Zenith, are you still in an abusive relationship? I hope not, and that you will be safe and happy. Thank you for your kind words.
Spider Woman,
The only thing I think I can add to this is to urge Bob to take a close look, if he has not already, at his family history. People who get into abusive relationships were usually abused themselves–and I am talking about emotional abuse as well as physical.
My ex-bf let his ex treat him in a very abusive way, and it became clear to me after learning more about his family that there was a fair amount of emotional abuse in his past–kind of subtle stuff but damaging nonetheless. His parents made him the middleman in their divorce, which is a position no child should ever be put in. As a result, he had a very hard time standing up for himself and demanding to be treated with respect.
Bob definitely has to realize that the way he lets himself be treated is not OK, and that he has to make a decision to stop allowing it before anything can change. Getting at the root of the problem is essential before any real progress can be made, and I strongly suspect that it goes WAY back.
Geobabe, I hope Bob is on his way now to realizing that he does not, and never did, deserve to be treated badly. He has already made progress in this respect, but sometimes I get so frustrated because it does not seem fast enough. They were together eleven or twelve years, though. And you may be right about the abuse coming from earlier than that; I don’t know.
Good news! He had his ex removed from his checking account today, and had the address switched so that the statement comes here. I think that is a big step.
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Spider Woman
I’m sorry - I’m sure you’re ready for this topic to die, but I just felt the need to respond.
Your SO’s ex and my husband’s ex could be clones. When we became an item, they were already divorced and she started telling their kids that as long as I was in way, she couldn’t get back with their dad (even though she had no intention of doing that). She also let us know, in no uncertain terms, that if we lived together without being married (we were buying a house) she would take him back to court because we would be setting a bad example for the kids (who were 13 and 10 at the time). I would have agreed with her philosphy except that it was LESS of a bad example than the numerous affairs she had while they were still married. My husband took her side and we got married prior to completing the purchase of the house.
She has had a number of SO’s (I count 5 with 1 repeat) and been ‘engaged’ three times since their divorce and has lived with each one. We found this out about 2 years ago when one of the kids ‘slipped’ while talking about visiting their mom. It seems that they were instructed NOT to tell their father about it -
Luckily, she lives many states away from us so we don’t have to run in to her around town. She is also rude when she calls the house - even with MY 10 year old daughter. On the two ocassions that she has actually come to my house to pick up the kids for a weekend visit, she totally ignored me. Believe me, I do not care what this women thinks of me personally, but when you’re at MY house, show some common courtesy and at least acknowledge me.
I still feel that she still has some hold over my husband and controls our lives somewhat and we’ve been married almost 5 years now. I can’t even get in to the money thing, that would take all day.
I just wanted to let you know that you have a ‘kindred’ here that knows where you’re coming from. And kudos to Bob for taking the first step toward freedom. You might suggest to Bob that he get a pager, that way you and your daughter don’t have to deal with her phone calls.
Good luck to you and Bob.
P.S. When I was getting divorced and couldn’t afford an attorney, I went to the local Legal Services office and they were able to help me out… food for thought.
Spider Woman
I’m sorry - I’m sure you’re ready for this topic to die, but I just felt the need to respond.
Your SO’s ex and my husband’s ex could be clones. When we became an item, they were already divorced and she started telling their kids that as long as I was in way, she couldn’t get back with their dad (even though she had no intention of doing that). She also let us know, in no uncertain terms, that if we lived together without being married (we were buying a house) she would take him back to court because we would be setting a bad example for the kids (who were 13 and 10 at the time). I would have agreed with her philosphy except that it was LESS of a bad example than the numerous affairs she had while they were still married. My husband took her side and we got married prior to completing the purchase of the house.
She has had a number of SO’s (I count 5 with 1 repeat) and been ‘engaged’ three times since their divorce and has lived with each one. We found this out about 2 years ago when one of the kids ‘slipped’ while talking about visiting their mom. It seems that they were instructed NOT to tell their father about it -
Luckily, she lives many states away from us so we don’t have to run in to her around town. She is also rude when she calls the house - even with MY 10 year old daughter. On the two ocassions that she has actually come to my house to pick up the kids for a weekend visit, she totally ignored me. Believe me, I do not care what this women thinks of me personally, but when you’re at MY house, show some common courtesy and at least acknowledge me.
I still feel that she still has some hold over my husband and controls our lives somewhat and we’ve been married almost 5 years now. I can’t even get in to the money thing, that would take all day.
I just wanted to let you know that you have a ‘kindred’ here that knows where you’re coming from. And kudos to Bob for taking the first step toward freedom. You might suggest to Bob that he get a pager, that way you and your daughter don’t have to deal with her phone calls.
Good luck to you and Bob.
P.S. When I was getting divorced and couldn’t afford an attorney, I went to the local Legal Services office and they were able to help me out… food for thought.
Good for you that Bob finally took a step towards separating himself from his ex wife. Hope he continues to move in this direction.
Thanks for your replies, PunditLisa and Belle.
Yup, PL, I am vastly relieved that he made this step, and I think it is in part due to the fact that I started this thread (he read it this morning).
Belle, the two ex-wives do sound quite similar. They seem to have difficulty giving up control, even though they have moved on to other relationships (and in Bob’s case, breaking up was her idea). I suppose they’ll get on with their lives when they find yet another person to dominate and control.
Sigh.
Is Bob handicapped?
Is there some real reason he cant get his OWN bank account?
Get his own car, his own place to live?
Crimeny! What a loser!
Spidey, sweetie, if it wasnt his ex, or you, it would be his Mama! This is exactly what your life is going to be like for as long as you are taking care of him.You will never be equals, never be partners.
You got him to move the money to your account?
She got him to sign papers…
Does he ever have a thought of his own?
Run, dont walk from this poisonous situation!
His ex isnt the problem! – He is.
Hey there Spidey and Bob,
So glad to hear that progress is being made. The trust that Bob shows you Spidey, by putting his money into your account is a great indicator of the strength of your relationship. All the best and I hope everything works out well.
Spider Woman and Bob
Hope you are both well, and your kids too. No matter what kind of nonsence goes on between all the adults, try to see to it that your kids don’t end up with the brunt of the pain. If Bob’s ex is the vendictive kind, she will make sure they feel her pain, and Bob gets the blame.
The thing do do is have atorneys take care of any business, and never critisize her in front of the children. If they come over with complaints about Bob (told to them by the ex) resist the urge to tell them what a bitch she is. They will grow up and learn about that. But be the good father Spider Woman says you are, and at the same time, don’t let your ex control your life.
Best Wishes to you all.
Guess I didn’t make it clear that I was talking about my husband’s ex being abusive. My first husband was abusive, I took several years out from even dating to get myself straightened out after I got up the courage to leave him. He went out and found a new victim and left me alone for the most part. Moving far from him helped in that respect. My present husbands ex made a pain of herself till theiryoungest was in his teens and she finally nagged her SO into marriage. Thanks for asking.
You are so right about the kids needing as many supportive adults around as possible. If you are persistant about being at sporting events she will eventually get the message that she can’t bully you. Unfortunately she may find something else to complain about.
Hang in there.
zenith
Sorry about the misunderstanding, zenith; I must not have been awake yet. I will keep up with attending the kids’ events; she attends her s.o.'s son’s events. I’m hoping things will work out with her and the s.o. (he’s the sacrificial lamb, poor man) so that her focus will again be there. Since he has been more distant to her lately (I think he has tried to break up with her and she is too persistent for him), she has been calling here more and thinking of reasons to talk to Bob.
Trade, thanks for your response. I have been being careful about not talking about the kids’ mom in front of them. They know, though, that my daughter and I won’t answer the phone when she calls, and that if Bob is not here, they need to take her calls.
I always believed, to a point, about not criticizing the missing parent in front of the kids, even with my own kids, because I believe that part of their self-esteem comes from their ideal picture of each parent.
But I also have come to the conclusion that it isn’t a good idea for kids to think that all mothers yell at and bully their kids and spouses just as a matter of course; they shouldn’t think this is normal.
The oldest daughter, who, unfortunately, is starting to act a lot like her mother, seems to kind of think I am a wuss because I don’t act like her mother does. sigh.
I want to add my vote to the people who suggested you see a lawyer. A lawyer can help you see what your legal options are. Maybe there are grounds for nullifying the original divorce papers. A lawyer can also give Bob a hard-nosed objective look at normal, workable custody, support, financial, and co-parenting arrangements. As much as you love Bob, sometimes the one you love isn’t as easy to listen to as the objective “expert” with a different view.
I have a hard time believing that a couple with kids can legally get a divorce like this. No lawyer of his own? No time before a judge? No counseling for parents or kids? Maybe you’ve shortened the story for this format and those did happen. But that was one lousy lawyer, if it did happen!
All you need, to start with, is a consultation. It could be well worth the hourly fee. Amd I think it’s important for everyone. This isn’t healthy for any of you, the way it sounds now.
Hi Spider. We’ve enjoyed some pretty good reparte on the board. What I’m writing is criticism – it’s not personal.
I have to agree with kellibelli on this one. I think that you’re in a hopeless situation. Reviewing just a few of the high (low) points:
[ul]
[li]Bob had a long relationship (marriage) with his ex. He knows what she’s like. When she started slipping around he sat quietly and hoped that it was “just a phase”. When it wasn’t she filed for divorce and move on to someone else.[/li][li]At the most emotionally difficult time of his life Bob trusted his ex enough that he signed the divorce settlement sight unseen – even though she was the cause of the distress.[/li][li]Years after the divorce Bob still defends her actions. He knew what she was like when they were married and still sees her in the same light.[/li][li]Bob literally put what was left of his life savings in a joint account that he still maintains with his ex.[/li][li]Bob moved the money from the joint account to YOUR account? That’s equally as naive.[/li][li]Bob moved from his ex-wife’s house to yours. (Does he have a psychological need for submissiveness?)[/li][li]Bob felt picked on because the counselor didn’t agree with him.[/li][li]Bob did NOT have his ex-wife’s name removed from the account. Either she removed her own name, her name was removed by court order, or he opened a new account in his name. (Can you clarify.)[/li]
[/ul]
Red flags all over the place dear. I wish you well.
SouthernStyle
I don’t want to hijack this thread, but I just need to know the story on this:
Unfortunately, Bob and I are a lot alike. We both stayed in relationships and put up with bad stuff for way too long.
I think that Bob felt that his ex could still be a good person in other areas even though she cheated on him. I think he now is realizing he was wrong. There are some wives and husbands who forgive their spouses for cheating, and hope they will grow up and the marriage will heal. I would not have been that forgiving, but apparently Bob was.
And he has been changing so that he doesn’t defend her actions as much as he tries to explain them, maybe to himself. I think it is still hard for him to believe that he misjudged her character that much.
I had thought, after starting this thread on a Saturday, that there was an off-chance that his ex might somehow see it and find out the money was in that account. That is why I suggested he make a week-end phone transfer to my account, which is possible because our accounts are both at the same bank.
He ended up going to the bank Monday and having her name removed from the account, and we never did actually do the transfer thing.
I, too, saw red flags, and tried to talk to Bob, and wrote him many letters about this. This thread is what I believe finally moved him to action.
The only problems we really have in the relationship are having to do with his previous marriage. Otherwise we get along really well. I do think that there is a traditional type mindset that the man has to be the strong protector, and the woman the meek little protectee. Although sometimes I think that would be easier for me, because I am by nature shy and reserved, I don’t think it is always fair to apply those old stereotypes.
Cranky, I would like Bob to use some of the money he has to see a lawyer and at least have him be able to claim one child a year. The strange clause about not cohabitating with a female in that house (I would have been more worried about an unknown male than a female living with my kids) no longer matters. I would actually be interested in him trying for joint custody, except that his oldest daughter is a little bit snippy and snotty, like her mother, and I don’t know if I would want her around here that much. Maybe it would be a test of my kindness, to try to break through that.
Thanks for your input, folks, and OpalCat, I was kind of wondering about the haircut thing too.