My s.o.'s ex-wife

They have been separated for over four years, divorced a little over a year later. He found out she was gone when she called him at work one night and gave him his new phone number. Even though he suspected she was having an affair, he hoped it would end and they would reconcile.

She moved into a different house that she and her new honey bought together and did not tell my s.o. where it was for over a year. She dropped the kids off at the old house on visitation weekends, and my s.o. also had them during the summer days when he was on second shift and she worked first shift.

She brought divorce papers for him to sign when he was in the hospital to have surgery, and she told him he had to sign those papers so she could have them in by Monday. I don’t know if he actually even read them, but if he didn’t, he should have.

She got full custody of all three kids, plus the right to claim all three of them on her income tax. He pays the customary 30% of income child support. He was to live in the house and make the house payments until the last child turned 18, and then he was to sell it and they would split the profits. She had it written in the divorce that he could not cohabitate with a female in that house (he would have to sell and move out) but a male roommate would have been okay.

He also is responsible for half their school tuition, and visitation is every Sunday and every other weekend.

When she left, she took most of the furniture, so he bought new furniture on credit. When he was off work for two surgeries and related health problems, he could no longer keep up with the house and credit card payments, so he signed a quit claim deed to the house. She then proceeded to rent the house to him at the same rate as the house payments which he couldn’t afford. His car broke down and he couldn’t afford to fix it, so she paid to have it fixed, kept it and traded an older van to him. But she only changed one title, kept losing or forgetting the other one, so both vehicles were in her name.

When he started dating me, she seemed to have some sort of panic attack. She told him to tell me “Those are MY babies!” And she was used to him taking the kids on weekends when she was supposed to have them. One time he refused because we had a date, so she evicted him. (She “evicted” him every time he wouldn’t do something she wanted him to do, but this time he had somewhere to go, my house.)

So, rather unexpectedly, and fairly soon after the break-up of my marriage, I had another whole family to deal with.

This winter, his van broke down and he couldn’t afford to fix it. He had been driving their daughter to skating practice every Sunday to the Twin Cities, and now no longer had a vehicle. She told him if he didn’t get it fixed, she was going to take it back, and she did. She had someone tow it away, she fixed it and, since she never changed the title, it is hers. We worked at the same place then, so he rode to work with me.

And this woman, who has her own s.o., (not the same one she left Bob for originally) hates me. We no longer answer the phone if we see either of her numbers on the caller I.D. because she uses a really snotty tone of voice to anyone who answers.

I met Bob almost two years ago, and we started dating about a year ago. I had nothing to do with their break-up, and she has a serious relationship with someone else. But she calls here to harass Bob about all kinds of stuff, or to ask him to pick the kids up or drive them here and there during the week, if she doesn’t feel like doing it or is going to be home from work late.

And he still seems to partially defend her, after all the crap she has pulled. He thinks she is a good mother, even though she leaves the kids alone many evenings so she can spend them with her s.o. He always seems to find excuses for all the mean, shitty things she does. I don’t understand.

But here is the kicker: he recently switched jobs, and has decided to use his profit sharing to try to get out of debt instead of rolling it over. And he deposited this large sum of money in his checking account, which still has her name on it.

She already has the house, most of the furniture, and both vehicles. Bob came out of that marriage with the bed they both had, a couch, and lots of debt. She takes anything she can get her hands on, and he doesn’t believe me that it is not a good idea to start a separate account for that money.

I know he is a good, loyal person who loves his children very much. She is a spoiled, contolling psycho bitch who gets her way by screaming, ranting and raving (but she can control this; as a sales rep she makes more money than Bob and I put together). I have been more than kind to the kids, (who have their own set of problems).

I just don’t know if I want to put up with this for very long. I want her to grow up and get on with her own life and let us have ours. I think it would be best for the kids if all of us (including s.o.'s) were involved in their lives, but she has hissy fits when I attend any of their sporting events.

Bob seems to think I am being unreasonable in my opinions and feelings toward his ex. Any suggestions, comments, opinions, advice?

This may seem like more of a MPSIMS thread, but I wanted to make leeway for stronger language.

Jeez. Well there is a term for this kind of behavior … Bob’s what we call a “big pussy”. Domineered so totally by his ex that it seems you have no hope of breaking him away. It amazes me what people will put up with.

Anyway, it seems apparent that he is perfectly willing to act the drone to her queen bee. Unless you can get him to toe the line of some sort of ultimatum - which would include getting a ruthless, cutthroat lawyer to “fuck that bitch and her hastily-signed divorce agreement up one side and down the other”, as it were - then you might as well dump the chump, because otherwise you’re stuck with her for the duration.

He has made some progress in the time he has been living here, but for some reason always seems to want to give her the benefit of the doubt.

I am all for civilized behavior between exes, if it is reciprocal, but she expects this treatment from him (kindness, consideration, etc.) and does not return it.

We just got back from his son’s volleyball game. She was there, and talked to a woman friend the whole time. She didn’t even know when her son’s game ended until the people around her got up and left.

We stopped at Tom Thumb before the game, and the check-out girl used to babysit Bob’s kids while they were married. He introduced me to the cashier, and she asked how long he had been divorced. Then she said “You know, I never liked [the ex]. She was always so mean, and yelled at me and the kids.”

Maybe if Bob hears what other people always thought of this woman, he will understand more where I am coming from. When I first mentioned her snotty tone of voice to him, he told me “She always talks like that to me and the kids,” as if that justified it.

Maybe it’s kind of like being in an abusive relationship; your self-esteem is so low, you feel like you deserve that type of treatment.

RTA, thanks again for wading through that OP.

Spider woman - please though, note that much of what you complain about is standard and, well, right.

The amount of his c/s, pretty basic.
The amount of the visitation, pretty common.
Paying a portion of the tuition, pretty common.

And, almost always, the custodial parent DOES get the tax exemption.

As the custodial parent, I’ve watched my ex wander through several relationships (including two marriages and an additional fiance). Divorce and child issues are never easy.

From my side, what I want from my ex is:

  1. Child support - and frankly that doesn’t just mean the financial payments. It would be really nice if he ante’d up his half of the medical costs promptly vs. me paying up front and him spacing his payments over time. “but he has bills to pay” well, so do I, and I do without so my child doesn’t. This also means SUPPORT OUR CHILD - BE there at the soccer games, practices, drive him occasionally to the doctor appointments (why should his sick time be for “just him” while mine has to go for my illnesses, appointments and our sons?) Be there at school conferences. Meet his teachers. know who his friends are. Sounds like your SO is doing this.

  2. Simple courtesy. If you are supposed to have him for the weekend, calling just before the weekend and saying “can’t do it, I have a commitment to a friend…” well, isn’t that ducky. You also have a commitment to your son. If you want to do something with him during MY time, TALK TO ME FIRST. This took 8 years before my ex figured that one out.

That’s it. After 14 years of divorce, we’ve gone from him threatening to take me to court over Ben’s haircut to a mutual meeting of the minds that Ben’s needs come first. If his father’s side of the family is having a get together during my time, Ben goes to the reunion. Ditto for if my side is getting together. Makes for a much better deal, all around.

now, in your case, your so is meeting his financial obligations, and meeting with the visitation. Good. For his ex to call on him to take the kids to the doctors or practice, I look at that as him being a responsible parent, not a burden.

She does sound bitchy in other respects, but I think your argument about her suffers from listing things that, frankly are right (see the above listing).

Tell Bob to grow a brain! Defending such a vituperous person is a sign that he is not firing on all cylinders. Under threat of ultimatum, march his ass down to the bank and set up a separate account today!

Otherwise you will be paying his bills pretty soon. It is obvious that this harpy will think nothing of draining his profit sharing proceeds like a mug of beer.

That Bob did not carefully go over every phrase and condition of their divorce was sheer lunacy. He is now paying the price for that stupidity. That his exwife set it up so that he was bereft of all financial instruments and property pretty much illustrates her character, or lack thereof.

Repeat after me Spidey, “Bob, grow a brain!”
Once you are done with that, please bring your considerable talents over to this thread.

The child support I have no problem with, that is what he legally owes. In our state, if you pay the child support, you usually get to claim one child at least. Some people work it out every other year or something.

As for activities during the week, before I came along, she had him do almost all of that. I think she should at least do half, since she is the custodial parent.

I think he is an excellent father to be so involved with his kids and I would like to attend these sporting events with him: she wants him to attend them alone.

When he started having a life of his own, she got all teary eyed and asked him if he loves me.

I have been married twice before to men who were previously divorced. I always tried to be courteous, even when they were not courteous in return; I met both ex-husbands long after their previous marriages were defunct. (I am pretty good friends with my first ex-husbands third ex-wife.)

She has complained a couple of times that she doesn’t have the time to spend with the kids, and they are driving her crazy. Bob says, “Give me custody.” She says “Then you’d get all that money.”

He would have originally tried for joint custody, except at that time he worked second shift.

To be fair to Bob, he was in the hospital and had been ill, and was having surgery the next day. She brought the papers to his hospital room to have him sign them. He was on pain medication at the time, and may have been sedated (didn’t know him then so I am going by what he told me).

The man she left Bob for had a stroke about a year afterwards, and she got power of attorney over him and was receiving money from the VA for his care. When she finally kicked him out, it was after he signed the house they were living in to her name. His relatives are still trying to get him out of that one, as far as we know.

Long and extensive topic title too. Hope you don’t mind my taking the liberty to shorten it for the sake of the appearance of the forum screen.

'Sokay, alphagene. I guess if the OP is too long, people can just skip it.

Spider Woman:

Based on what I’m reading in your OP, I tend to agree with what RTA says. Bob’s a guy who has no trouble remaining entangled with a ”spoiled, controlling psycho bitch who gets her way by screaming, ranting and raving” even though they divorced years ago. He even defends her. He even maintains joint accounts with her and puts his finances in her hands, even though she has ripped him off in the past.

I understand that when kids are involved in a break-up, the two ex’s often have to remain in contact (sometimes close contact) to share in the kids’ development. But Bob seems way too entangled with his ex after all this time, in a number of ways.

My personal opinion: Bob needs to separate out more of his life and paperwork and finances from his ex. He needs to visit a lawyer and get an expert opinion on where and how to build some firewalls between himself and his ex.

And until he gets some distance from his ex, and I would advise you to maintain some firewalls between you and Bob. If you start making a big investment in the relationship with Bob, financial or otherwise, it’s very possible that whatever you invest will end up in his ex’s hands. I’m not saying you should quit seeing the guy. Just be aware that you’re heading into an emotional, legal, and financial threesome, at least until Bob can grow up enough to quit being so dependent on his ex. So I would advise limiting your own exposure and risk until such time as Bob gets a little more distance from his ex.

By the way, I have never had to deal with an SO’s ex at close range, or with a situation involving an SO’s underage children held under joint custody with her ex. So I can’t speak from personal experience as to what the right degree of entanglement/separation should be under these circumstances. I’m just giving you a read-out based on what works for me in terms of common sense. By all means, get some professional guidance from a divorce lawyer or some other type of counselor. I think you really need to know what you’re getting into before you get too involved in this situation.

All the best, Spider Woman!

Spidey, it may be in Bob’s interest to prove in court that he was under duress or not fully capable to have properly understood the papers that he was signing at the time. He really needs to renegotiate the agreement.

I still maintain that anyone who signs a legal document without reading all of the mouseprint is just plain dense.
An old saying (sorta):

They give with the big print,
and take away with the fine print.
PS: See you in the limerick thread for TN*Hippie.

Thanks, all of you who responded. One of the reasons I started this was because I wanted to show it to him, to let him know that I am not the unreasonable one in this case.

The kids have a place to visit their father because I live in a big enough house. He would not have been able to afford more than an efficiency apartment on his own.

The next couple of weeks, Bob will be working afternoon shift instead of days. When she calls wanting him to do stuff, he won’t be here. If she is unable to get home in time to take kids to practice, I would be willing to do that, but she would need to ask me in a courteous tone of voice.

Last year, her newe s.o. did some of this for her when Bob was not available, but the s.o. seems to be trying to distance himself from her, so I am afraid she will be calling here more frequently. My daughter and I dread it when she calls; we go into a different room so we don’t have to hear the messages she leaves.

I, too, would like him to see a lawyer about maybe getting joint custody, or at least for him to be able to claim one child every year. But I don’t know how far his profit sharing will go toward paying his back bills, and he needs to do that first.

Anyway, thanks, everyone, for listening and letting me rant.

Well, Spidey, I don’t have anything to say.

I just wanted to send you a hug.

((((((((Spidey)))))))

Thanks Scotticher.

-----:slight_smile:
—////\\

I’m sorry, Spidey, but you are in the middle of a bad situation. The fact that Bob still has his ex on his bank account, and that he defends what she does, means he isn’t over her…and maybe never will be. RTA is right–if you’re with him, then she’s with you, because they are a package deal.

Bob needs to consult a lawyer, pronto, and start standing up for himself. If he won’t do that…well, I’m certainly no expert on relationships, but I’d advise you to think long and hard about whether the bad is going to outweigh the good in this case.

I hope it works out for you.

You need to make sure he fully understands that with her name on the account she can drain it down to the last nickel and there’s just not a damn thing he could do about it.

Has he had any professional counseling to mebbe help him figure out why (from you description) he allows her to treat him like this?

We did go to counseling together for anger I had over this situation, and things were a little better for a while. But maybe it would be better if I were not there. Maybe he would feel he could speak more freely. The counselor was someone I had seen about previous issues, and Bob sort of felt the guy was on “my side.”

Thank you for the suggestion.

Another hug—{{{{Spider Woman}}}}.
I HOPE he will get rid of the joint checking account.

Spider, I think you need to ask yourself some hard questions: #1) Will Bob ever change? #2) Does Bob WANT to change? and #3) Am I willing to continue subsidizing a man who has another woman’s name on his checking account?

The divorce agreement, yeah, yeah, he was under duress, he was trying to do what was right for the kids. Noble. But not taking 15 minutes out of his day to open up a new checking account? Which means that he is giving open access to his money…to another woman? Come on, Spider. You’re housing him and supporting him financially, emotionally and sexually! You deserve better than this.

Yes, he’s a chump for not cutting the ties to his ex. But you’re subsidizing that chump.

I intend to show Bob this thead, because sometimes guys (at least, in my experience) will not take the word of their s.o. I showed him the thread preview before I posted it, and told him I would be awaiting answers. I’ve asked him to talk to his sisters about this (they think his ex is evil) and to other people. I think if I can get him to read this thread, he will have to face up to the fact that this is not kind to me to continue to allow her to run rampant like this (it isn’t as bad as it was last year, but I want it to change faster).

And yes, I have been thinking about the fact that I am probably somewhat of a chump, also. Both Bob and I have difficulty telling people no, and probably put up with way too much abuse before we finally put an end to it.

I do love Bob very much, and that is why I am still trying to resolve all of this.