I agree with what a lot of other posters have said, but I don’t see anyone having addressed something that I think is worth pointing out.
So, you’re a bisexual woman who, up until now, has mostly led a heterosexual existence?
There is a certain dynamic that often plays out in heterosexual pursuits. (NOTE: I am painting with a broad brush, this might not apply to you.) Very often, a heterosexual woman who is sexually interested in a man will make the “first move” simply by signalling that it is o.k. for the man to make the first move. A simple “If you’re attracted to me, you may receive a positive response should you decide to make the first move.” The heterosexual man picks up on this, makes the first move and everyone’s happy. OR the man doesn’t pick up on this and doesn’t make a move OR the man does pick up on it but he’s not interested so he doesn’t make a move. Still the woman gets to salvage her pride because, since she didn’t make an overt move she never put herself at risk of being rejected.
I don’t know if you’ve heterosexually followed these “Rules” or not (personally, I hate it), but if that’s the way you’ve gone about romantic/sexual pursuits in the past . . . it is not going to work well for you now.
You talk about everyone ignoring you. You talk about the hostess flirting with everyone except you. Who were you flirting with? Sounds like you were flirting with no one. You’ve got to make your interests clear. If you’re attracted to a woman then just make small talk looking for common interests, that woman is quickly going to write you off as not attracted to her. Then, if you start gettng flirty later, it’ll come off as creepy because of it already having been “established” that you weren’t into her that way.
I think it’s entirely possible that hostess was not attracted to you herself, but invited you on the off chance that you might hit it off with someone else. Then it seemed to the hostess and her friends that you didn’t even make an effort.
With the DADT philosophy, it means you’re encouraging your spouse to lie and hide what they’re doing. So can I see why most people would find this arrangement distasteful. Once you invite dishonesty into your relationship, it’s harder to trust your partner. Stress ensues if trust is something you value.
“I’m running late tonight, so I can’t make that thing. Late meeting with the boss.”
Do you take your spouse at their word like you would if DADT wasn’t in place? Or do you assume they might be out with their BF/GF?
Make that “I can’t make it, got something else” and there’s no lie.
It’s all a matter of how the people involved are more comfortable, and as amazing as it sounds, different people like and feel comfortable with different things.
I can see it working as long as both people understand that if one partner decides that they do actually need to know details, the other one will be happy to provide them. In other words, “I know you might be doing stuff with other people and I’m cool with it and don’t need to know all about it.” I think this is tricky, though, because there’s a pretty fine line between that and, “I need to keep this stuff secret from you because if you find out, you’re going to be upset,” or alternately, “I am not happy with the things you are doing, but as long as I don’t have to hear about them I guess it is okay.”
For me, there is no jealousy attached to what we are doing. If there were, I wouldn’t be doing it. I mean, there are problems to work out like in any relationship, but I don’t have that feeling of, “If you are with someone else, I will be unhappy/lose my mind/not be able to cope/etc.”
Then again, we don’t do casual so maybe that’s a whole 'nother scene. I don’t know. I’ve already talked about this a lot more than I am usually comfortable with, in this thread.
I’m not poly and barely bi (as in, yes, but I’ve been in a monogomous marriage to a man for going on 20 years) - but I think you have some unrealistic expectations. No one owes you sex. Women aren’t going to put out because suddenly you are available and have your husband’s permission. Many of the poly/bi women I know would run from your story for the reasons Kimmy first posted - your husband’s side of the story is not exactly inspiring to your potential partners because it sounds like you may be threesome shopping for him. Or that he is about to dump you and then they’ll have you on their hands. And you have an ethical obligation to be honest with your partners - all of them - and tell them you are married and what the parameters of the open relationship are.
I think you’d have far more luck being poly with men right now - they are more likely to be interested in casual sex and willing to overlook the marriage part of it - than with women. Most women want some level of intimacy with their partners beyond “does this feel good.” It will also let you know if poly works for you - because really the question here is not whether or not women work for you, but if your marriage can handle being poly. If it can, and you are bi, over time there will be the opportunity with women.
I’ve known a lot of people in poly relationships - some have worked for decades and some have been trainwrecks. Yours does, unfortunately, have all the markers of trainwreck - starting with the glaring “one penis rule” without the corresponding “he only gets peni” rule. The other thing is that your self esteem seems to be in the cellar - not a good start for poly.
fair is whatever people freely agree to after quality thought, discussion and problem solving. equality does not matter, fairness does matter.
large asymmetries can exist in a fair relationships.
monogamous people have developed relationships with non-monogamous people and through agreements have continued that way. though it is a philosophical debate if the the monogamous in practice person is some type of polyamorphous.
poly people may want limits based on emotional/psychological security. since all people aren’t alike the rules and terms for each person may not be alike.
successful relationships are about working it out with the people involved. each is customized.
Wow, you are making some very cynical and harsh assumptions. I was genuinely interested in this woman, sexually and platonically. If I wasn’t, I wouldn’t have met her in person or attended her party. She was intelligent, humorous, very physically fit, and very succesful in her career. She appeared to be a woman who I respected and could look up to. And, I did not blow off the straight woman, I liked her too, but she left early. Again, I was seeking hook-ups AND platonic friendships at the party. I’m not some person desperately only looking to get my crotch wet.
A poly bisexual woman contacted me on a DATING site. What other way should I have handled this?
That post you linked was made 10 years ago. Back when I was still a bratty college student. I’ve grown and matured a lot since then.
Interesting post. Yes, I’m the type of person who likes to send out subtle signals. That’s how I’ve interacted with men, in the heterosexual world. I don’t overtly hit on any man, unless he hits on me first.
Yep, I’m the same way with women. I like for them to make the move first. No, I didn’t flirt with any of the women. I was waiting for someone to flirt with me. Again, I was a newbie, and I didn’t want to step on anyone’s toes.
I shouldn’t have started off conversations talking about common interests? Tell me more. How should I approach a woman then? With dudes, we start off talking about the weather, then politics, and then there’s touching, and next thing you know we’re in the bathroom making out. So this this process doesn’t happen with women? Maybe this is the missing piece of the puzzle.
As a monogamous heterosexual male in a committed intimate relationship, I find that keeping that one relationship healthy, thriving, fun, comfortable, etc. challenging enough. I can’t imagine trying to juggle multiple relationships at that same level of intimacy.
You hear a lot of married heterosexual males joke about how a polygamous relationship would be awesome…because of the opportunity to have regular sex with more than one woman. Don’t get me wrong. I love my wife, but the challenge of trying to keep three wives happy (not just in the bedroom) all the time, would probably drive me crazy.
For the OP, sounds like your husband is excited about the idea of having the freedom for him to be with other women, of imagining you being with another woman, and possibly having three ways with you and another woman.
But is your husband really interested in having relationships beyond sex with someone else besides you? Because, from what I understand, polyamory is not just about sex.
ETA: Just curious, at the party when you were dismissed by the other guests, were you sitting with your knees at 10 and 2? If so, that may have turned some people off.
It’s not what you talk about, it’s how you talk about it.
When a guy is hitting on you, if he talks about weather and politics he does so differently than if he’s talking about weather and politics with someone who he’s not hitting on. That’s because when he talks about weather and politics with someone who he’s hitting on . . . he’s not actually talking about weather and politics.
The mundane subject matter is the “disarm” part of “charm and disarm”. The overarching intent is “next thing you know we’re in the bathroom making out”- that’s got to be present with the undertones from the very beginning.
It can’t be “well, we’ll start off taking about common interests then if we hit it off next thing you know we’re in the bathroom making out.” It has to be “I want to be in the bathroom making out so I’m going to open with the weather.”
How do you talk about sex when using words as if talking about the weather? It takes practice. First thing to understand is that body language is extremely important.
The subtle signals thing isn’t going to serve you well.
Honestly Themis - you sound like a “nice” guy wondering why he doesn’t get laid. “But she went out with me” - yeah, but she said she wasn’t interested “yeah, but then she was nice to me” yeah, cause she might be, ya know, a nice person. “She invited me to a party so I could meet her friends, and I didn’t get laid their either.” Yeah, cause you know, women aren’t obligated to give you sex when you want it. “Well, how do I get them to give me sex?”
So, put yourself in your females shoes - not the “alcoholic sorority slut stilletos” that have you making out in a bar bathroom with a guy who talks about the weather or experimenting with women because its interesting but the sensible shoes of a lesbian or bi woman ten years out of college. Or find an alcoholic lesbian or bi sorority slut - or one who wants to play around with a woman because it will be cool.
(And as a disclaimer, I am sure there are prudish sorority sisters and lesbians who wear fuck me heels. I suspect that the pool for fishing for is somewhat smaller).
“I can’t make that thing” wouldn’t come up in my situation, because I can’t conceive of cancelling plans with my wife to go do something with another woman. If it were to happen (I’m keeping it hypothetical here because my wife does read this site on occasion), it would be at a time when one of us was just generically “going out for a while”.
As far as it being a “lie” to not reveal what we are doing…well, I’ve never seen my wife put in a tampon and she’s never seen me wipe my ass. Is that dishonest?
Themis, have you ever, in your whole life, had a relationship where you took the first step? Approached another child back in kindergarten? Said “hi” to the new girl in town? No?
Either get your big girl panties on and start doing that or understand that if everybody else was as passive as you make yourself sound nobody would get laid ever.
Did someone tell you that dating is easy? If so, you should ask for your money back on that advice.
You have to cast a wide net, and you are going to strike out a lot. People ask people out and then decide not to escalate it all the time. It could be anything- maybe her secret crush showed up, maybe she unexpectedly got her period, maybe she just had an off day. But chances are she just wasn’t that in to you. That’s normal. Most women aren’t going to be in to you. You just have to keep trying until you find one that is.
My understanding is that women are often a lite sensitive about being with newbies, especially ones that might be considered dabblers. Nobody wants to be someone else’s experiment, and nobody wants the kind of drama that often comes with new romantic ventures. That might be a prejudice you just have to work past.
Anyway, remember that nobody owes you sex. Not even if they asked you out. Not even if you guys have a lot in common. Not even if you really want it.
No, but that’s not comparable unless you expect your wife to hide from you any and every sign that she uses tampons and she expects you to hide any and every sign that you use toilet paper.
I’m not saying anything specific about your relationship. I’m just saying it makes sense to me why DADT is not widely adopted by couples. If your spouse tells you one Saturday morning that they’re going out for a while, there’s a certain comfort and freedom in knowing that you can later ask them about what they did without it being a big awkward deal…even if you don’t intend to ask them.
Hmmm…wow. I do indeed approach women and men like that. “Let’s have a conversation about common interests, politics, etc. And if I like their personality I might see myself dating or at least hooking up with them, one day.” I never approach a man or woman thinking “I want to hook up with this person, so let’s have a conversation about common interests and politics to see if they show the right body language.”
How does the latter approach work? How do you know if you want to hook up with someone before you even talk to them?
But, if this IS how most people play the dating game, it now makes a lot of sense of why I’m failing. I might talk a lot about sex and making out on here, but really, that’s on the bottom of my priorities. Romance and friendship rank higher, sex is just the icing on the cake.
Very few times. The vast majority of my successful relationships and friendships are with the people who pursued me first. Whenever I approach first, rejection usually follows. So, I now find it a waste of time to play the role as the pursuer.
Again, I wasn’t only seeking sex. I was seeking friendship also. I guess I should’ve said this earlier, I wasn’t looking to hook up that night. I was looking for potential hook-ups. I wanted to make friends with the women, and then see what would happen from there. Yeah, many people have their reasons for turning down sex and relationships. But friendship? That’s weird. I’d hate to brag, but since I’ve been an adult, I’ve had a lot of friends. I don’t even have to reach out, people come to me. It’s just really disappointing to be rejected for friendship for (seemingly) no reason, eventhough we appeared to be quite compatible.
